Greenery Street: Less Mana, more non PP woodelven RSS.

[AstralSoul]

Hi all,

I have, like many, scores of PPs. I work the Spire a lot, so that adds more. I craft none.

I built what is required for woodelves, except for forest fabrication, that I build six extras. I am going to build more refineries for the sake of fun, creating more RSS, and getting the Forest Fabrications to level four, for aesthetics and completion. However, with PPs, all of this is pointless. Ignoring them will always keep me behind (I haven't for the portal, I used PPs to level it up, plus tears ofc.) Same for the Ranger, and the Mercenary camp, and will for the others when the event asks me for a tech.

But in the end, all the building job I am doing is pointless. Waste of resources (not builders, as the main town only has the mercenary camp left for this chapter, and one builder is working it.) I do it for the sake of fun, and to see how much more efficient is my guest race's corner VS elvenstats. And I am still stalling as we are working on AWs (now more with 31-35), and will wait for next FA before sorcerers... but it kind of ruins the fun, and many, will skip it altogether.

My suggestion is that you changed the tile requirement for:

Gold, tools: 10% less for each tile.
450 mana instead of 4500.
100 refined marble
100 refined steel
75 refined planks.

This way, you force players to play better/complete more the chapters, but they can pass on the roads, and keep progressing if they really want to, but for some of us, gives us some rewarding by needing the stuff we grind haha. Don't you think so @Silmaril ?

Note: I reached up to 650K mana without a single Weeping Willow (will never have one), so I am not worried about the mana. But this way, you need to use more refined RSSs than just the forest fabrications. With PP there is no need to level them up, unless you want to for fun, and for aesthetics like me.

 

[Hekata]

Starting with the Woodelves chapter you don't need settlement resources to build roads. And that's a good thing since once you're done with a guest race you can't produce any more of their goods. I for instance like the greenery road more than any other road that comes after that and l wouldn't be able to build any more of it with your requirements.
Having the possibility of building less settlement buildings or keeping them for a short time is a good thing now that we have FA very often. I really don't want it to change and go back to when my city was useless for months because it was covered with settlement buildings.
In short: No to your suggestion

 

[Sir Derf]

Oh no, a game where choices are presented and you have to make decisions that have consequences...

 

[Timneh]

Note: I reached up to 650K mana without a single Weeping Willow (will never have one), so I am not worried about the mana.

You might be worried about it in future chapters because you will need loads of if.

 

[AstralSoul]

You might be worried about it in future chapters because you will need loads of if.

Sure, but I will be producing much more, as they can level up with RR. Neither you need Willows in future chapters, right?

 

[Pauly7]

I read your message twice, but I can't quite figure out what you are asking for... It must be too long ago since Woodelves.

I think the gist of it, though, is that you would like people to be forced to build more settlement buildings rather than using their PP spells. If so, I disagree. I am also not a fan of people asking for things to be made harder for no reason other than the fun of it. Remember that many people have been collecting and crafting PP spells for this very reason. For Inno to now turn round and say "hey, those spells are now useless" would cause of a fairly cataclysmic outcry. I wouldn't put it past Inno to make that kind of move, but please don't wish for it on behalf of everyone.

If you want to go ahead and build a complex settlement just for the fun and the challenge then great. You can still do that. Don't try to make things harder for other people though. That is the pointless part.

On a positive note, I agree with what you are saying about Weeping Willows, as I've told you before I think. I hate them and never built one. I don't think they're in any way necessary except for people looking for a culture injection at that time.

 

[Timneh]

One of the things i just don't get with some people is where they ask for something to be removed from the game or object to something that people ask to be added to the game because they don't want it. Most of the times this happens it is about things that do not have to be used by players but can be used if the player wants to use them. If something is in the game and a player does not like it then why not just ignore it instead of asking for it to be removed, a lot of players will probably like using those things.

@AstralSoul my comment is NOT aimed at you, it is just a comment in response to what @Pauly7 said above.

 

[AstralSoul]

@Pauly7 the problem is making it too easy, you loose part of the essence of the game, look:

As you can see, I have three times the amount of forest fabrications, several extra steel, and plank, and will add some more marble. You can also see that some of my forest fabrications at level 2, one at 3, one at 4. It would be satisfied to level up all to level 4. Once you do, you can make a lot of chimes, treant sprouts, and woodghosts.

That will create more satisfaction, that satisfaction we like from building stuff (otherwise, we would not play these types of games). I did this with all races. I am not obsessed with doing it as fast as possible, therefore, this is not "harder", but more time-consuming.

I have the RSS to investigate the last SS, and then ancient wonders (but holding on a bit before all gets harder due the SS). So, what is the point to keep developing these buildings:

It takes the fun away, making people rush through the game. I too want to be at Embassies, but I do not obsess with it. However, neither I am going to be stalling myself for the sake of nothing (although, my needles of the tempest will soon be level 22...)

So, my point was, the roads could require your refinery RSS, this way, you need to create more if you want to tile up with woodelves. If not, you can move on and continue progressing with your current roads, everybody wins.

@Timneh I know right? I had several MA chests for event items, I am the odd player that likes them, and now, they are gone. The Outpost Stash is gone too. INNO really listens to the big player base, so that many complaints... shouldn't happen.

I do not mind really, will keep playing, If I need to worry about something, it will be real-life related. However, I feel that these spells take some essence away from the game (great for who wants to rush though.) I wish I could sell many of these, even for regular RSS.

 

[Hekata]

I am the odd player that likes them, and now, they are gone. INNO really listens to the big player base, so that many complaints... shouldn't happen.

I'm disappointed to see the chest currency gone too. But I don't think Inno listens to anyone in particular. They just decide to make a change that suits them and then use some of the feedback to back up their decision even if it's not the actual reason it was done or not supported by all players.

 

[RainbowElvira]

You have a special play style; halting all progess to uprade all AWs to maximum is not everyones cup of tea. I can tell you because I find it much more thrilling to watch paint dry instead.

To each their own, but please do not force everyone to play at your pace.

And of course things should not be changed retroactively without a real good reason.

 

[Pauly7]

So, my point was, the roads could require your refinery RSS, this way, you need to create more if you want to tile up with woodelves. If not, you can move on and continue progressing with your current roads, everybody wins.

I'm in two minds about this anyway. On the one hand my point still stands - i.e. let people play their own way and you can collect your guest race goods if you prefer. On the other hand I'm not too worried about streets anyway, if I'm unable to build them.

For me personally I normally build the roads that I like the best. The majority of my roads are still "cobbled street" from chapter 3. If people are suddenly unable to build these roads without guest race goods however, then no matter how you get there they will become obsolete for people as an option at some point - i.e. I can't ever build Dwarven roads again unless I were to decide to rebuild a Dwarven settlement just for that purpose.

 

[AstralSoul]

You have a special play style; halting all progess to uprade all AWs to maximum is not everyones cup of tea. I can tell you because I find it much more thrilling to watch paint dry instead.

To each their own, but please do not force everyone to play at your pace.

And of course things should not be changed retroactively without a real good reason.

You are not forced to upgrade your roads. It will make upgrade the roads more rewarding, for people who want to get the most out of each chapter. That way both speedsters and more detailed people are equally happy.

I'm in two minds about this anyway. On the one hand my point still stands - i.e. let people play their own way and you can collect your guest race goods if you prefer. On the other hand I'm not too worried about streets anyway, if I'm unable to build them.

For me personally I normally build the roads that I like the best. The majority of my roads are still "cobbled street" from chapter 3. If people are suddenly unable to build these roads without guest race goods however, then no matter how you get there they will become obsolete for people as an option at some point - i.e. I can't ever build Dwarven roads again unless I were to decide to rebuild a Dwarven settlement just for that purpose.

Precisely, it is more of an optional thing, but a side challenge if you want to max out your city before the next chapter.

Let's take two trees. Both are able to equally thrive in water, nutrients, and sunlight (there is no war in elvenar, so...)
- One grows high, with a thin trunk.
- The other one does not grow as high but grows with a very thick trunk.

What will happen in 100 years with each tree? Think about it @RainbowElvira

 

[RainbowElvira]

Let's take two trees. Both are able to equally thrive in water, nutrients, and sunlight (there is no war in elvenar, so...)
- One grows high, with a thin trunk.
- The other one does not grow as high but grows with a very thick trunk.

I think this is meant to tell me that your playstyle is superior to mine. While this might be true (or not), I want to play like I do. Taking away choices is not at all welcomed, even if it's something as minor as streets.

 

[Timneh]

Sometimes being biggest and strongest is not best. I remember a story about a mighty oak and a blade of grass. One night there was a great storm and in the morning the mighty oak was laid on its side but the blade of grass was undamaged because it bent with the wind whereas the oak couldn't.
I can't remember what the full story was about as i heard it when i was a young boy and that is a long time ago now.

 

[Hekata]

@Timneh Not really the topic here, but since you mention it, it's originally a fable by the 17th century French writer/poet Jean de la Fontaine: The Oak and the Reed (Le Chene et le Roseau)
Edit: although that fable was a remake of a much older Latin story from the 5th century. *insert nerdy emoji here*

 

[AstralSoul]

I think this is meant to tell me that your playstyle is superior to mine. While this might be true (or not), I want to play like I do. Taking away choices is not at all welcomed, even if it's something as minor as streets.

Nope, not superior. Different

I know more people think like me (and by the way, no one noticed I decreased 90% the mana, I am sure no one did road-up their entire city in one blow due to all the mana.)

I mentioned this because PPs make almost the entire Wooedleven chapter nothing, and all the refined RSS are really unnecessary hehe.

And true @Timneh about the Oak hehe, however, I see tons of small trees ripped off the ground in a day of strong winds!

 

[DeletedUser3571]

You will find that PPs make most chapters easy, some more than others. But now that they have introduced them i think it would be a bad move to go back and lock roads behind guest race goods. PPs were mainly introduced to make it easier for new players to catch up with the advanced players so that more people could trade sentient goods,(when sentient goods were introduced they were delaying new chapters as not enough people were at the end game to be able to trade them) and this would be a unfair way of punishing new players for doing what INNO wanted them to do.

 

[AstralSoul]

You will find that PPs make most chapters easy, some more than others. But now that they have introduced them i think it would be a bad move to go back and lock roads behind guest race goods. PPs were mainly introduced to make it easier for new players to catch up with the advanced players so that more people could trade sentient goods,(when sentient goods were introduced they were delaying new chapters as not enough people were at the end game to be able to trade them) and this would be a unfair way of punishing new players for doing what INNO wanted them to do.

I see your point, that makes sense. We live in a fast-paced society too. It feels it takes away from the game, but indeed, it is better for sentient goods indeed.

 

[Gargon667]

the problem is making it too easy, you loose part of the essence of the game

Woodelves chapter was designed a LONG time before PP spells came around. I think they were invented when Amuni was current. They only became common during Constructs, so only in chapter 15 (and only in the first part of it) have the devs started to incorporate measures to counteract PP spells. I think chapter 16 is even more designed to counteract PPs. Kind of funny that they added the Chapter 15 AW to improve PPs, I never understood the point of that...
Anyway, devs are not going to mess with an old chapter, it is the way it is, use the PPs to blast through the guest races. You can play 2 or 3 chapters between each FA. When you finally (half a year or so) catch up with the current chapter you can play it as it was intended by devs.