Answered Battle Help Please

[DeletedUser2766]

Apologies if this is something that's been posted a lot before, but I'm really struggling with this. I've tried searching through the forums and skimming a few threads, but I'm not really getting any answers other than noticing a lot of unhappiness about the new changes to the battle.

Is there a resource/post/ANYTHING which a) explains what the stats are in my troops and b) how to actually win battles again? Also, can someone explain the squadsize thing to me, why some are huge and some are small and it tells me a number for my enemies yet they are all different sizes?

In my elf world, I have researched squad size 7, unlocked the golems and not far from achieving my archer promotion - I can't upgrade my troops anymore than what they are, without progressing in the tree, and I can't at this point as I don't have enough provinces done to open the chest. Every time I've tried to fight battles since the upgrade, my troops have been absolutely annihilated. I thought upgrading my squad size would fix this so went through and did all the upgrades, but nothing has changed. I'm going into battle against squad sizes SMALLER than mine, but I'm still getting absolutely wiped out. I've tried to figure out the whole "strengths and weaknesses" things, but it still isn't making any difference.

In my human world I am not quite as far with the squad sizes etc, but I haven't expanded my provinces as far as I did with my elf world, and it's the exact same story.

I've looked at the document on the facebook page to try and understand where I'm going wrong in battle, but other than some nice looking tables and stats (what do half the stats even mean? Is there somewhere that explains to me what the stats are??), it hasn't really told me why I can't win battles.

It's too expensive to keep catering all the time, yet without catering and losing battles so spectacularly, I'm not sure how I'm supposed to keep unlocking provinces in order to be able to progress through the tech tree?

I'm sorry for sounding like a negative nancy, but I was really hoping doing all the upgrades and producing the troop numbers would fix this problem, but it hasn't and now I'm not sure how I'm supposed to progress through the game. Thanks for any help!

 

[DeletedUser219]

Have a look at Mykan's Battle Guide in the Player Guides and Strategies section of the Community Corner.
It describes the strengths and weaknesses of each type of Unit, and makes suggestions for which unit(s) to use in each type of Province.

Be prepared to make some of your own mistakes, but there's nothing wrong about learning from the mistakes of others.

 

[DeletedUser1829]

Is there a resource/post/ANYTHING which a) explains what the stats are in my troops and b) how to actually win battles again? Also, can someone explain the squadsize thing to me, why some are huge and some are small and it tells me a number for my enemies yet they are all different sizes?

For unit stats
http://www.elvenarchitect.com/units/

For tips - There is a version of this on this forum but the US one is kept more updated
https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/mykans-guide-fighting-guide.4205/

For a summary of the key unit by province
https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/mykans-guide-tournaments.4014/

The enemy unit numbers vary as there are different weights for each unit. For example if your squad size is 100 you can have 100 sword dancers (weight 1) or 25 sorceress (weight 4). Another cause for the variation is if they have more then 5 squads their squad sizes get smaller and less then 5 they sizes get larger.

Squad size is critical when it comes to fights. As I am unsure if you know where to read this I have included a picture below

Spoiler: Squad size

For fights where the enemy is not 5 squads we need to convert the squad size to that of a 5 person squad. This is done by: (Enemy squad size)*enemy squad number / 5

Sorry about the maths but it is the only way to know how difficult the fight will be. If their squad size is 2 or more then yours don't even attempt it.
From what you explained you should be close, especially if you have researched all squad size techs for that era. Do you have sorceress yet? In era 3 you can finally access all unit types which is helpful.

Every province follows a pattern. There are 3 unit types in each province, 2 of these will be your target units that your key unit is strong against. Then there will be a third unit that is a counter unit design to hurt your key unit, for these you need to bring a support unit to help your key unit.

How many of which type you bring depends on the fight and squad size. If your squad size is equal and they only have 1 counter unit you can probably take 5 key units and win.

If you have any questions ask and I will see if I can help, would probably need to see what your fighting to help more.

 

[DeletedUser2778]

Hi Mykan,
I do not know about key units. I am trying to expand to 50 provinces unlocked. There are still battles it is impossible to win. the NPC need downgrading. I am getting very frustrated. I use the autofight button. Selecting the correct units is as military as I want to get. Does the auto fight automatically lose? If so will retreat to a nice game of bridge and leave this pretty world I have become quite fond of. My elven city is doing better but think I've hit the wall there too.
Amanda

 

[DeletedUser2766]

Hi Mykan,

Thank you for your reply I really appreciate it, and for linking the unit stats - my difficulty is I don't understand how to take those numbers, understand what they mean and use them strategically to my benefit? I can compare numbers on there just fine, but I just am struggling to work out what these 'key units' are and understand what to use against what? Sorry for being such an idiot, maybe I'm just making it harder than it needs to be because I really don't want to put this much effort and time into battles, I'm more interested in advancing my city and it all just feels a bit hard now.

 

[DeletedUser]

Hi Mykan,
I do not know about key units. I am trying to expand to 50 provinces unlocked. There are still battles it is impossible to win. the NPC need downgrading. I am getting very frustrated. I use the autofight button. Selecting the correct units is as military as I want to get. Does the auto fight automatically lose? If so will retreat to a nice game of bridge and leave this pretty world I have become quite fond of. My elven city is doing better but think I've hit the wall there too.
Amanda

I think many of us are where you are regarding fights, whether we are trying to unlock 50 provinces or have already unlocked 328, they are impossible to win, the number of squads and/or troops in each squad plus so many different types of enemy have turned this into a fighting game from a city building game. For me personally, if I'd wanted to play a game where fighting is so significant to the game then I'd have chosen something like FoE or Tribal Wars!

 

[DeletedUser1829]

Hi Mykan,
I do not know about key units. I am trying to expand to 50 provinces unlocked.

I can compare numbers on there just fine, but I just am struggling to work out what these 'key units' are and understand what to use against what?

These are your key units for each province

If your squad size is comparable to the enemy taking most or all of these units (normally) will help. Squad sizes have become really important technologies now if you plan to do any combat. The above applies equally to tournaments and provinces as the unit types are based on province type.

So for example in a marble province the sorceress/priest are your key units. They are strong against 2 target unit types in those provinces (heavy melee and heavy range). The counter unit for marble is the archer (light range), if there is 1 or less archers you can usually take 5 of your key unit. The more archers there are in a fight the more of a different unit you will need to support your key unit, maybe golems/mortars (there are several options).

I was talking to people in the last tournament (steel) and they told me once they started to play the key unit in the tournament they started winning most fights. There are always exceptions to the rule but hopefully with the right squad size and the key unit you can start to find some success.

 

[Kiltqueen]

These are your key units for each province

If your squad size is comparable to the enemy taking most or all of these units (normally) will help. Squad sizes have become really important technologies now if you plan to do any combat. The above applies equally to tournaments and provinces as the unit types are based on province type.

So for example in a marble province the sorceress/priest are your key units. They are strong against 2 target unit types in those provinces (heavy melee and heavy range). The counter unit for marble is the archer (light range), if there is 1 or less archers you can usually take 5 of your key unit. The more archers there are in a fight the more of a different unit you will need to support your key unit, maybe golems/mortars (there are several options).

I was talking to people in the last tournament (steel) and they told me once they started to play the key unit in the tournament they started winning most fights. There are always exceptions to the rule but hopefully with the right squad size and the key unit you can start to find some success.

Again Mykan...thank you...this is brilliant. I normally cater my way through tournaments,but decided to play the plank one, and found that my Golem was indeed the 'key player' and used him pretty much all the way through, till round 5 when the enemy was unbeatable. Now I understand why he was the main guy. I need to keep this chart by my laptop! I've gone to your above links and copy and pasted the chart where you have isted the key guys and their support troops...though Mykan..there are a few more enemy troops added since the upgrade.For instance the Orc General was in the Plank Tournament....Golem sorted him !! Thank you sooooooo much!!

 

[DeletedUser2378]

Again Mykan...thank you...this is brilliant. I normally cater my way through
...though Mykan..there are a few more enemy troops added since the upgrade.For instance the Orc General was in the Plank Tournament....Golem sorted him !! Thank you sooooooo much!!

Yes, precisely my case as well - I tried to put Mycan's advice into action only to find that more enemy-units have been added,
on top to the fact that the enemy-troops out-number mine by hundreds! ...lol
Fighting is still impossible

 

[DeletedUser1829]

on top to the fact that the enemy-troops out-number mine by hundreds!

Is that world map fight? What is your squad size compared to the enemies? There are also charts in the guide (US forum) which help to give an indication of how many provinces we should be in based on era, it is possible you are outside the inno expectation. Its why I am doing more fights in the tournament as the fights start in my favour then fair so it is a good practice ground.

till round 5 when the enemy was unbeatable. Now I understand why he was the main guy...there are a few more enemy troops added since the upgrade.For instance the Orc General was in the Plank Tournament....Golem sorted him

Yes the need to manual fight, really understand troops and have a good map come into play increasingly in the later tournament rounds. I tried an auto fight with all key units against only target units and lost in the 6th round, had to manual fight or cater to get past. They want tournaments to be a challenge for those who enjoy combat, I just hope they shorten the tournament timers to compensate for the increased time to manual fight, they have said they are monitoring the situation so I have hope.

Yes there are new units, I haven't added them yet due to time and the wiki isn't updated. I can use the graphics from the wiki, if I take a screen shot the units have the background colour from the screen shot surrounding them. It is where the unit types have changed where the chats will be out of date.

 

[DeletedUser1353]

These are your key units for each province

Just wanted to ask regarding humans mortar, do you use them? I tried, but the damage they deal is so low compared to other units (since they dont have any upgrade I guess). Planks tournament was hell to fight.

 

[DeletedUser1829]

Just wanted to ask regarding humans mortar, do you use them? I tried, but the damage they deal is so low compared to other units (since they dont have any upgrade I guess). Planks tournament was hell to fight.

I have used them but on lower era towns in the last tournament. I would have liked more testing but didn't have a lot of them. With higher level towns I only had enough for 1 or 2 fights on the first round of the tournament. While I won the losses where high enough that I didn't train more for the tournament. High level human towns had to get creative in the last tournament

I have hope once the upgrades arrive they will be decent.

 

[DeletedUser2378]

Is that world map fight? What is your squad size compared to the enemies? There are also charts in the guide (US forum) which help to give an indication of how many provinces we should be in based on era, it is possible you are outside the inno expectation. Its why I am doing more fights in the tournament as the fights start in my favour then fair so it is a good practice ground.

g

Yes, Mykan, I was referring to world map fights,
I just checked at random, & in A I have 141 while enemy 255
Bad deal!
LOL

I've stopped fighting anyways, and if the negotiation-costs were more fair I wouldn't even bother caring about fights ...
I'd still need to 'train' meself in the manual fightings had I ever wanted to go with fighting again ...
I just wish & ask that inno reduces the negotiation costs
[to also save you some of this trouble in trying to get us understand their fighting!

And, in true fact -
Had I wanted fightings I would have stayed to their other game in the 1st place



Thanks a lot for your effort, though!
& I just hope to somehow make it out of all this mess!

 

[DeletedUser1829]

Sadly those squad sizes are not winnable, once your techs align you will be able to win again. Although if you prefer to just negotiate stick to that. Someone on beta was negotiating provinces and battling tournaments to good effect. It isn't a bad idea as you save your goods in tournaments and as squad sizes are fixed and smaller then world map you can replace lost troops pretty fast. Even if you auto-fight you should be able to reach the 4th (rune) round easy enough, especially for closer provinces.

If you want to give the crystal tournament a go with fighting the below picture might help. I was auto-fighting with 5 paladins/treants in the first round (at different tech eras). I was reading someone (pre-treants I believe) was using sword dancer/cerberus to good effect as cerberus low initiative meant they were ignored.

 

[DeletedUser2378]

Thank you, Mykan!
I will indeed take your advice & suggestions, & Thank you!!

 

[DeletedUser]

I've cleared 331 provinces now (in Arendyll), with scouting times in excess of 2 days, and have every intention of carrying on, I negotiate every time but I'm still fighting in the tournaments - the last tournament was difficult for me and I didn't get to the last round but I'm not that bothered really, I look on it as extra kp and a few relics to keep my MA going. Its working fine for me.

I'm following this same pattern in Winyandor as well, cleared 175 provinces now which is enough to unlock orcs/goblins and only another 15 needed for woodelves - shame I'm only in dwarves though.

I also saw that someone in beta is doing the same but his scouts are out in excess of 4 days.

The way I see it is that Inno keeps saying that we've gone too far but don't stop us, they say we shouldn't but not that we can't and while we can then I will continue to do so. I can see just how easy it is to get "too far", in Arendyll I'm in woodelves and of course have always had to wait at the end of each chapter for the new one to come out. However in Winyandor there is no waiting time, I participate in tournaments as much as I'm able to but don't accumulate the quantities that I do in Arendyll, I don't believe that I'm scouting faster than I should be and yet I am still far ahead of where Inno thinks I should be.

I think the fault lies with Inno for not correctly calculating how far people are able to go with scouting, just a normal pace which isn't necessarily sending the scouts out as soon as they return or holiday times and not playing. Its unreasonable not to expect that people will send out their scouts if there are sufficient funds rather than just sitting twiddling their thumbs, I find it hard in Winyandor to get enough relics for my Magic Academy and scouting and clearing provinces is the best way of getting them bearing in mind how difficult the tournaments have become.