AW KP swap threads

[Zoltan Alte Socke]

Many FS use AW KP swap threads which results mistakes because the messaging threads don't guarantee that:

• the AW can accept the claimed amount of KP (then it needs extra communication to clarify it)
• the next player put the KP into the right player's AW
• the next player put the KP into the right AW
• the next player put the right amount of KP into the AW
• two players put the same amount of KP into the same AW at the same time and update the thread

Admins should be able to define AW KP swap threads where they define the right amount of KP of a thread. AW KP swap threads can be activated/deactivated by them. If the AW KP swap is new then Admins have to define the first player in the chain. Only 1 chain can be active with given amount of KP at the same time.

From this point the threads work simple:

• there would be a new marker in the AW (below the Favorite) which means that the player wishes to get the KP into that AW
• player in the FS can access the "AW KP thread" if (s)he has an AW marked with the "AW KP thread" icon
• if a player in the FS wants to contribute KP then (s)he just open the new menu of this function and click on the contribution button (and she doesn't have to visit the other player or open the members list, paginate to the player, click on the AW icon, paginate to the right AW, click on it, click on the book icon, paginate to the right AW KP instant and add it - and if she forgot how many KPs she contributed then go back, check the amount and book icon again, paginating and using the right instant)
• the logic behind automatically uses the right amount of her/his KP (it has to be able to use 3x5KP, 5x3KP, 5+10KP or 15KP instant according the inventory of the user)
• then the logic automatically adds the KP into the last AW in the chain
• if a player doesn't have enough KP or there is no combination of the right amount of KP in his/her inventory then the button is disabled
• if the player's current AW needs less KP than the selected thread then the button is disabled

Restrictions

• players outside of the FS can't add KP into AW marked with the "AW KP thread"
• if the AW has contribution from players outside of the FS then the "AW KP thread" icon cannot be activated on this AW
• if the player activate the "AW KP thread" marker on a different AW (regarding the rules above) then this AW will be taken into account
• if the player is the next in the thread the "AW KP thread" marker cannot be changed

 

[QFol2]

That all sounds very complicated (admittedly it might be because it's nearly the end of Friday and I'm tired).

 

[Pauly7]

AW swapping isn't something that is designed by the game. It's something that players organise themselves and so there are many different ways of doing it. Your proposal would seem to take one particular method of KP swapping and have a system designed around that, but who's to say whether that's the way everyone wants to do it?

I do agree that it would be nice if KP swapping was in some way organised and reliable, but as I say it's for players to decide. There is one version where it is almost impossible to make any mistakes and is very quick an easy to use... but it requires a lot of admin work behind the scenes.

I also wouldn't support any notion of blocking people outside of the fellowship from donating. That has been asked for, in one way or another, for years and has been rejected as it is a part of the game. People can see fit to donate to whoever they choose and people would just take this as a way of blocking anyone from outside the group from being able to do it.

two players put the same amount of KP into the same AW at the same time and update the thread

This problem shouldn't occur, if you insist on people always posting their AW name first, then re-opening the thread, then always donating to the person they see one place before themselves on the list.

 

[Herodite]

@Zoltan Alte Socke Thank you so much for taking the time to be detailed in your explanation of this suggestion however, this is currently not something our developers would look to consider at this time. As suggested above by @Pauly7 whilst KP Swapping is a very common way of doing things within Fellowships, we have to take into account that not all Fellowships do this, and many Fellowships have a very specific way of doing it. It is for that reason a "KP Swap Assistant" as it were would not work for every FS out there. Each KP Swap Thread will be tailored differently to that of another and to create something so vast within the game that would cater for all potential swap scenarios would be extremely challenging.

Thank you again though for bringing this forward! A very thoughtful idea!

Kind Regards

Herodite.

 

[Zoltan Alte Socke]

AW swapping isn't something that is designed by the game.

AW swapping isn't something that is designed by the game. It's something that players organise themselves

This argument is something that I don't understand at all. Fellowships organize it themselves because the UI doesn't support it.
What you are saying sounds me like that people travel between A and B and however there is a shorter or easier way but they don't change their path because it is fixed between A and B.

but it requires a lot of admin work behind the scenes.

Could you explain it please why would it requires a lot of admin work?

Managing the KP swap threads requires a lot of admin work since a message can't hold more than 100 messages without becoming slow. So admins have to replace every KP swap threads when they reach ~100 messages. They have to create new ones and put the last messages into the new ones. That is work.
Opening an admin interface and start a new thread wouldn't cause any work that is comparable to the manually managed swap threads.

there are many different ways of doing it

I think if you use an argument then it would be nice to prove it as I spent my time and wrote a very detailed request.
I was member of 9 fellowships the last 3 years. Could you list me that many different ways of doing it, please?

Any kind of KP Swap Assistant would make the fellowships' life easier. For administrators and users alike.

I also wouldn't support any notion of blocking people outside of the fellowship from donating.

deal, you can drop this request.

This problem shouldn't occur, if you insist on people always posting their AW name first, then re-opening the thread, then always donating to the person they see one place before themselves on the list.

we do it. I am sorry if it doesn't seem to me a comfortable solution in 2020.

 

[QFol2]

There is one version where it is almost impossible to make any mistakes and is very quick an easy to use... but it requires a lot of admin work behind the scenes.

I suspect Pauly7 is referring to the wonder society method, which is fairly nice and straightforward for those donating, and means nobody misses out, but is indeed a lot of work for at least one poor soul! (Not me, but my AM in one fellowship spends a lot of time logging the donations and producing a new list of wonders to donate to.)

 

[Pauly7]

I suspect Pauly7 is referring to the wonder society method, which is fairly nice and straightforward for those donating, and means nobody misses out, but is indeed a lot of work for at least one poor soul! (Not me, but my AM in one fellowship spends a lot of time logging the donations and producing a new list of wonders to donate to.)

Yes, this exactly. Swap threads are just one way of doing it.

 

[Piglets For All]

I'm part of a spreadsheet based AW contributing system, not the one on Elven Gems but one devised by a member of the FS a couple of years ago. Everybody is responsible for their own row, it self populates as the AW and level are added, the owner only puts in the kp amount less the chests and contributions are the exact amount of the chests - I think of it as a kp loan system as the chest amount is loaned and repaid in full when the kp bar is full.

 

[Zoltan Alte Socke]

Yes, this exactly. Swap threads are just one way of doing it.

I have never seen any other solution of it. Not to mention any effective way of doing it.
Wonder society method is one of them then (I have to check what is it exactly). This spreadsheet contributing system could be another one but I don't know whether its method is different or only the message threads are replaced with excel sheet which doesn't work for us. Nothing works for us that needs to access/open of 3rd party application.
So 1 (or maybe 2) examples are not many. If you can't list many different ways of doing it then you shouldn't argue with this against the idea. You have to see that it is not correct.

I am pretty much sure in that you can't prove me that the fellowships wouldn't use it if there was (not a solution based on my idea above but) any kind of KP Swap Assistant system in Elvenar. It would make the life easier for many mages and players, not to mention all that stress and frustration that come from the mistakes and everyone would be very happy about it.

Isn't it funny that we use message threads and excel sheets in an online game in 2020?

 

[Deleted User - 1829734]

If something were implemented to make it easier for fellowships to contribute KPs to each other's AW then that would be a wonderful thing.

Our fellowship tried the Wonder Society method which was suggested by a member who looked after the spreadsheet. However it fell apart when people didn't inform her of the information needed for the Wonder Society spreadsheet before upgrading their AW. It was the first time we had tried doing anything about our AW, and the members did like that aspect of it and wanted to continue, but in a different way. Since then we've just done a much simpler method of working our way through the fellowship list, contributing to each players favourited AW in turn. Not worried about how much people are contributing, not worried if some contribute but don't get a chest. When someone completes the research for a members AW they post in a mail thread that it is done, and then who is next. I've found it's also helpful to include what the targeted AW is, and it's level. About the only thing we need to watch for then is that players don't get missed if someone over takes them in the fellowship member list.

Obviously this is a more casual way and won't suit all fellowships, but it's what we've found as a workable option anyhow.

 

[Herodite]

@Zoltan Alte Socke what we have to consider here is the scale of the proposal. As you can appreciate there are intricacies to this game that rest deep below the surface of what we see. It would have to consider 38 AW's, take into account player favourites, a variety of differing Swap Techniques. It would have to recognise KP, AK, the amounts available. An AW would need to recognise only players from within a specific FS in order to ensure outside NH isn't getting through. All of these possible scenarios, and more, would need to be coded.

It is, and im sure other players would agree, a very well though out idea, however given the magnitude our Team would not take this forward at this time.

It has been noted. And we are very much aware of the various KP Swap Systems that are in effect in many Fellowships around the Worlds. So we'll park this suggestion for now, but keep it in mind for the future

In the meantime, im sure many here would happily give you some ideas as to the system they use using the tools available, to ensure a smoother running Swap Thread you can benefit from!

Kind Regards

Herodite.

 

[Deleted User - 1634960]

I am pretty much sure in that you can't prove me that the fellowships wouldn't use it if there was (not a solution based on my idea above but) any kind of KP Swap Assistant system in Elvenar. It would make the life easier for many mages and players, not to mention all that stress and frustration that come from the mistakes and everyone would be very happy about it.

Isn't it funny that we use message threads and excel sheets in an online game in 2020?

@Zoltan Alte Socke Some Fellowships would use it if it were available, but every player would need to download it, even if it were not being used. Many tablets and older PCs already struggle with the memory required to operate the game.

The Fellowship equivalents (Alliances, Guilds, etc.) in the online games I play find spreadsheets and message threads essential for enforcing rules, sharing knowledge, and pursuing goals. I would not be interested in a game where all my goals were set by the developers.

 

[Zoltan Alte Socke]

Some Fellowships would use it if it were available, but every player would need to download it, even if it were not being used. Many tablets and older PCs already struggle with the memory required to operate the game.

I can't accept it as a valid argument. You just add a checkbox to the FS admin UI where you can activate it. If the checkbox is ticked the members of the fellowship get the extra data if not not. Nobody else has to suffer about the extra data.
The "city graphics quality" works the same way. If it is set to "low" only the not animated images are used. If you change it to medium then the client downloads the animated ones.

 

[Zoltan Alte Socke]

It is, and im sure other players would agree, a very well though out idea, however given the magnitude our Team would not take this forward at this time.

Okay, this is an argument.

I suppose Inno doesn't want to run a survey with the feature requests to see which is wanted and witch isn't?

I personally don't like that there are 6 events and 6 FA every year. It doesn't make the game better. It results player burn out faster and quit the game.
Especially there are many things in the FA that would be fixed to be user and FS friendly.