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You knew it was coming....

Hekata

Artisan
All of the above bring the next questions: Why would one try to do more than minimum in Tourny, if, anyway, can't use those KPs? But if we do less in tourny, why all the fuss with extra 19 chests? Why should we be thrilled about buildings giving KPs?

Well... for the RRs. The tourney is the main source of RRs, and those bonus chests have 1 RR each. In fact I think they are forcing players to do much more in tourneys now. In a regular active FS that gets 10-13 chests per week players have barely enough RRs to upgrade stuff from one chapter to the next. Which brings us to the next nonsensical effect of this change: we need to have more culture buildings now and those require RRs to be upgraded too. So the demand for RRs didn't just rise with the costs of AWs but also with the lack of culture. The very rare buildings providing RRs when sold are not going to be enough to compensate that. Not even close.

Same goes for FA. I'll be damned if I'll do a single Arcane residue badge in the future
Since you bring up FA, that is a real concern now.
@Herodite Could you try to find out whether they are considering changing the very problematic: Arcane residue badge. Who wants to waste their precious resources crafting junk now?

no one at Inno has a general picture of the game AND that NO ONE is actually playing the game, to hit all these walls that we do. They make changes because they can and think that are good, they don't see all the implications that are arising from those changes. When players are pointing out what's not OK, they are too proud to accept they made a mistake, and they try to repair it (call it balance) with another change or addition which, ofc, leads to other problems, and so on.
Very much agree with all this.
 

Herodite

Forum mod extraordinaire
Elvenar Team
Since you bring up FA, that is a real concern now.
@Herodite Could you try to find out whether they are considering changing the very problematic: Arcane residue badge. Who wants to waste their precious resources crafting junk now?

It's been raised by a few Players but i've nothing concrete to give right now! I'll keep nudging though!

Also, keep the feedback coming on the back of todays announcement my Fiends! It's all getting forwarded!

:)
 

Laurelin

Sorcerer
ANOTHER LONG (and un-cheery) POST

Much gratitude, @Hekata, for posting Inno's latest carefully worded Marketing-speak non-solution. As my Gran used to say, though: "Fine words butter no parsnips," and I don't buy this latest attempt to pass the situation off as in some way necessary OR manageable as-is. Not buying ANY of it.

The consequences of adding 15 KP value to Runes were by no.means unforeseen, IMO. Inno plans way ahead, in depth, as do all large companies. They run projections of the effects of proposed changes. That's just basic.

And while I doubt that the precise changes we're seeing now were specifically planned to followthe Runes-AWKP bonanza, as such, I'd imagine something similar WAS envisaged, back when Runes were suddenly so highly valued ~ out of the blue, as an allegedly motiveless 'goodwill gesture'.

On the contrary, I think it was always a poisoned chalice. I'm too fed up to elaborate here ~ I did write a long exposition on the revaluation at the time, which I'm too weary to dig up now, but mine wasn't a popular view because most people were honestly delighted, seeing it as an example of no-strings Inno generosity with no future downsides (not at all typical of Inno), and who can blame them? Not I.

I would imagine that the remarkably high valuation of formerly worthless Runes was, in fact, intended to open up a number of potential future strategies on Inno's part, not least because many players naturally took the chance to [relatively] fast-level centrally important AWs, as hadn't previously been possible via normal play. And NOW we're told that by doing that ~ i.e. exactly what one would expect players to do with a sudden large influx of free AWKPs ~ we have 'unexpectedly' acquired many AWs which are considered by Inno to be artificially high in level/trivial in challenge... hence 'unbalanced'... hence now needing to be 'fixed' via the Draconian slowdowns & cost increases which we're now stuck with. Riiight, sure, none of the spreadsheeters extraordinaires at Inno could have seen THAT one coming... *Slow hand clap*.

As for trashing our most valuable stored Culture/Event/Premium buildings, which many of us worked hard to win (in Events, FAs, etc.), to Craft (via considerable Spire diligence), or to outright buy, and which I, for one, have been strategically upgrading using RRs precisely BECAUSE they're rare and excellent pieces which I saw as a lasting investment of my time & effort (and in some cases a core part of my City build)... hey, just Frag 'em unused, or sell 'em for a tiny one-off sum of RRs which (a) were introduced in order to preserve those very buildings, by means of upgrading, and which (b) won't even compensate, over time, for the sold items' loss.

But. It's certainly a great way to get rid of our stocks of superior older buildings, hm, so then we'll HAVE to resort to grinding (or spending on...) Events etc. to gain newly introduced inferior current & future equivalents... while neatly avoiding the thorny problem of directly nerfing the old classics. The cynicism is real.

Again, though, and while anyone can tell that I'm seriously fed up, even in Ch.15 and with useful stocks to trash (IF I do so...), what of newer Cities? They very much NEED those Event & Crafted buildings they can even get hold of, these days... each one is still very useful to a newer City.

They don't have several e.g. Lava Eggs, or Goddess of Wishes, or Genies, or probably ANY Magic Res/Workshops, etc. And if they win a couple in the increasingly demanding Events/Seasons, or manage to Craft a few, are they just meant to rapidly trash them to pay for levelling their AWs? Where's the fun, let alone the justice, in that?

And speaking of Seasons. Three days running I've had the always tiresome, but now extremely troublesome, "Produce Vision Vapour" Daily Quest, and once the Weekly version, too. HOW to do that?!

I used to Craft daily, so my Spell Fragments balance was usually about 8-10K (that's with weekly Silver Spire & approx..monthly Gold + 2 x Moonstone Sets). Now I can rarely Craft at all... and that's not only a good chunk of my City strategy gone, but of my FUN, too. No more Crafted Time-boosters, Lava Codex, Artifacts, 50/25% Troop Regeneration Instants (name evades me ATM)... even Pet Food & 5-day Troop-Boosters will be difficult.

Inno placed Crafting very centrally in the wider strategic game. Now what? It's not only AWs which are at stake here.

At the start of the current Spire I had only 900 Fragments left, thanks to those infuriating Seasons demands, and at present, 2/3 through the Spire, I have about 5,000 Frags. But some of the present Event's Quests will demand VV, of course (+ more Seasons Quests, I'm sure), and anyway, the few AWs I want to own are already mostly at or near L.30, so... yeah. Very funny.

But never mind me; I can survive, albeit by adopting a glacial and tedious playstyle, without even the satisfaction of being able usefully to help up-and-coming players to advance. What chance do those new Cities have or even many mid-gamers, if I ~ after hoarding Resources for 4+ years ~ am effectively stymied?!

On another note, I'm also wondering how on Earth we're going to make Arcane Residues in FAs, and soon enough how we'll even do Wonder Society Badges, too, once most of every FS has a mass of full AWs. Start spamming KP onto unsuspecting Neighbours? Oh, that'll go down well... :/

Seriously, the knock-ons of this disaster are going to keep chaining like dominoes. Inno's obvious reliance on too-broadly averaged cross-playerbase stats, coupled with how few, if any, of the management don't play the real, not merely simulated, game, has always led to decisions being made which look great on paper but which are terrible in actual played Cities, but this one takes the cake.

I'm off to calm down. I can't believe they're just sticking to this dreadful plan... unchanged, unmitigated.

Any brainwaves about how to keep doing anything much in-game except just grinding Spire/Tourney/Events (in a City building game...) are very welcome! I'm fresh out of ideas.

Wow, I am fed up. Apologies for the unmitigated gloom.

:mad:

[Please excuse any typos... too tired to proofread]
 

SkyRider99

Mentor
As for trashing our most valuable stored Culture/Event/Premium buildings, which many of us worked hard to win (in Events, FAs, etc.), to Craft (via considerable Spire diligence), or to outright buy, and which I, for one, have been strategically upgrading using RRs precisely BECAUSE they're rare and excellent pieces which I saw as a lasting investment of my time & effort (and in some cases a core part of my City build)
This forced outcome is my biggest upset also. Such a massive smashing of all we have laboured and paid for over the years! The repercussions are yet to be fully realised. This may be a good excuse to finally totally ignore FAs. Your points are noted.

Nice posting, as always @Laurelin. No typos detected. :p
 

Jake65

Sage
5-day Troop-Boosters will be difficult.
This for me is a conundrum (for smaller cities mostly) as it's almost at a point of 'you can craft troop booster buildings or upgrade fighting AWs, but not both'.
It doesn't make sense to me as it has been mentioned (maybe by you and/or others) that there is a shift to the game being fighting oriented. So why make this aspect more difficult?
Changes are far more readily accepted when there is an understanding of the thought and rationale behind them. I'm just not seeing that here.
 
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Hekata

Artisan
would imagine that the remarkably high valuation of formerly worthless Runes was, in fact, intended to open up a number of potential future strategies on Inno's part, not least because many players naturally took the chance to [relatively] fast-level centrally important AWs, as hadn't previously been possible via normal play. And NOW we're told that by doing that ~ i.e. exactly what one would expect players to do with a sudden large influx of free AWKPs ~ we have 'unexpectedly' acquired many AWs which are considered by Inno to be artificially high in level/trivial in challenge... hence 'unbalanced'... hence now needing to be 'fixed' via the Draconian slowdowns & cost increases which we're now stuck with. Riiight, sure, none of the spreadsheeters extraordinaires at Inno could have seen THAT one coming... *Slow hand clap*.
I actually stared writing something similar in my little post about runes being the reason for this nerf but then deleted that part thinking "Com'on Hek, you're being ridiculous, that would be too devious even for Inno to do". Glad to see I'm not the only one who had that thought though :)

what of newer Cities? They very much NEED those Event & Crafted buildings they can even get hold of, these days... each one is still very useful to a newer City.
That's the really puzzling part, isn't it? Why put new cities in such an impossible scenario? Isn't the smart strategy to at least give them some room to build AWs at lower costs (=runes/standard goods) to draw them in and then slowly up the costs to SF/RR/CCs once they are "addicted" to the game and AWs?

And speaking of SF, one of the mods on Discord (a US one) has repeated on numerous occasions that while gaining enough RRs is not going to be easy but is manageable (can even be bought with some diamonds if needs be) the costs of SF are completely unsustainable. Like mathematically proven to be unsustainable, even if you don't craft at all. It was also confirmed by a few other players who are very versed in both the game and maths.
So hopefully Inno will do something about that part, although I always dread their "solutions" to problems (they have crated). They might give us 10000 SF in the last Spire chest but remove the diamonds or DA some other hell like that.

Any brainwaves about how to keep doing anything much in-game except just grinding Spire/Tourney/Events (in a City building game...) are very welcome! I'm fresh out of ideas.
Well, not sure it's something that most players would be interested in but for a long while now my main goal in the game was to make my city aesthetically pleasing rather than super efficient. It's a disaster now as I had to tear down and reorder a lot of things to build that awful chapter 17 settlement, but as soon as I'm done with it I'm camping again for an eternity between chapters and rebuilding my pretty gardens, spooky corners and other themed spaces :)

Great post as always @Laurelin :)
 
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Valedoress

Alchemist
Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to contribute to this thread. A very interesting read that answers a lot of those what happened questions which are bouncing around in every Fellowship.

At just over 3+ years into Elvenar my 3 cities are in Chapters 16/15/15. Thankfully I gave the last FA a wide berth due to being mid-chapter. With a low Armoury count (3/2/2) and high Culture building count, my Culture totals have thankfully remained pretty static. My AW's are however starting to stack up with, like most players the Spell Frags being the sticking point. As an active MA crafter I saw the benefit of Tinlug the moment I took a peek at it's maxed evolution and it's one of the only buildings I have in all 3 cities. Sadly those crafting days are going to be lean as I wait for those few Artefacts or Evolving Buildings that I need/want.

As an Archmage with about 1/3rd the FS being newbies in the early Chapters I can already envisage the die-hard few that survive this latest snafu, starting to merge Fellowship's just to keep things going. As any AM knows it is hard work keeping the whole team motivated but I for one am going to stick it out for now, time will tell what happens next.

Inno:
If you are reading this please note the following. I use an Apple iPad mini (6th Gen) to play Elvenar, my laptop being too old to handle the graphics requirement. Every so often you ask for player feedback and everytime I click on the button to provide feedback. The problem is that this button has NEVER WORKED (3+ years). I don't come in to the Forum very often and Do Not use Discord (anymore) so have very little opportunity to leave feedback. I did leave a review on the App Store shortly after installing the game... maybe it's time to update it...? ;)

One thing I would like to ask is have you never heard of the expression: "If it is not broke then do not fix it!"

Food for thought?
 
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Thanks for your continued support, we understand not all changes are easy to accept and we’ll keep monitoring your feedback.
Inno, you don't HAVE our support. You don't listen. You don't understand and you don’t care about your customers. Players have spent money on your "free to play" game, and been stabbed in the back for their trouble.

Before these changes I would have recommended Elvenar to other gamers...now I'd tell people to avoid it.

*comments for Inno, not Hekata
 
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