Forum New Title: Altruist

[DeletedUser]

For any forum to function properly there must be a team of dedicated individuals to maintain it. This includes a wide range of responsibilities such as ensuring threads are in the right place, acting as a metaphorical 'link' between the developers and community, helping community members find their way around the forums, and enforcing the rules, etc.

When it comes to answering questions raised by the community publicly, anyone in the community (players, and staff alike) can respond and help out. That is of course the way a forum should work, but sometimes it's not really satisfactory for the player initially raising the question as they want to be 100% certain the answer they received is 100% correct. Who would be better to ask than a staff member then, right?

Unfortunately the staff aren't online 100% of the time (they need breaks too!), and even if they were, they won't be available to answer questions right away 100% of the time. Having community members answer questions for other players is how a healthy forum works - otherwise this would be no different than submitting a ticket to support, just that it's public. Another player's response is sometimes more thoroughly explained, usually quicker and most importantly: just as correct as that of a staff member.

Please Note: The following is a work in progress (WIP).

You can help by contributing bellow! ​

Suggestion 2: Reputation System (thanks to Prendyo for the inspiration)
​

Yes, we have a system where users can receive 'likes', but that is often used to indicate we might agree with that user's post, or we like their idea, or because we thought it helpful, etc. A reputation system would indicate whether a user has been helpful towards another user, and should indicate how regularly they have been helpful to further users. The idea that comes to mind is the following:

1. Just as we can receive likes in the forum for the posts we make, how about adding an option to give reputation? (Whether you call it help points, altruism, or whatever you fancy - I'm just going to call it reputation for now)
2. Bellow or above one's avatar (to follow the traditional forum style here ) a bar would indicate how much reputation a user has. This bar will gradually fill further and further as reputation accumulates. (Hovering over with a cursor would show the number?)
3. Version 1:Reputation would then accumulate just like the number of likes a user receives, however, after a certain time has passed since the last reputation was received it would begin to decline.
4. Version 2: Reputation is accumulated based on receiving positive or negative reception.
5. Obviously there would have to be limits to this kind of stuff as it could easily be abused.

Alternative: Only the staff can give positive reputation points to indicate which players have shown themselves altruistic. (Kind of what the 'like' feature is sometimes used for, but it doesn't quite have the same meaning)

Suggestion 1: Title​

Implementation of an 'Altruist' title granted to those players within our community that have proven to be very knowledgeable about the game and help other users regularly. This would not make them officially part of the staff, or grant them any special privileges, but rather functions as a badge of 'assurance' that they are giving appropriate help and thus take some of the work off the shoulders of our forum team.

Whether the title is granted based on recommendations/votes by the community, or just through staff members is a different story. I would like to see the community getting to vote/make recommendations though.

So what do you think?​

 

[DeletedUser277]

Very good post Valerius and I agree 100% with everything you say in the first three paragraphs. The way you describe the role of members of the community in helping others and the role of the moderator team chimes completely with how I understand a good on-line game forum to work best.

However, I am not convinced that you necessarily need a specific title to distinguish the more knowledgeable/helpful community members. Surely any cursory look through the various sections of the forum would let someone know which of the community contributors were more likely to know what they are talking about and to provide helpful, positive answers. Such a reputation needs to be earned and maintained over time. My problem with awarding a title is that it come with no accountability. Who's to say the person made an 'Altruist' maintains their degree of knowledge of the game or their helpful attitude...what if they dont? Would they be stripped of their title..and after how long?

The moderator team have responsibility invested in them by Innogames and they are accountable for their conduct to the company, in addition (no doubt) to being contractually obligated. However, an ordinary member of the community is not accountable to anyone and has no contract to fulfil other than to abide by the forum rules. Therefore, in my view it is only their conduct, as expressed through their posts to the forum, over time, that can provide them with any respect and not some fairly arbitrary title.

So, whilst I agree that the moderator team cannot be on-line 100% of the time and that it is a collective responsibility of the whole community to help players with queries and questions, it is the moderators responsibility to check that the help being provided is positive, consistent with the forum rules, and at least reasonably accurate. If not, then the moderators should intervene.

 

[DeletedUser]

However, I am not convinced that you necessarily need a specific title to distinguish the more knowledgeable/helpful community members. Surely any cursory look through the various sections of the forum would let someone know which of the community contributors were more likely to know what they are talking about and to provide helpful, positive answers.

You are completely correct that any user can determine for themselves which community members are knowledgeable/helpful, and I certainly don't intend to discourage anyone from doing that. In fact, I'd like to encourage that kind of behaviour. So a 'title' really isn't an adequate solution (I'll agree that it certainly wasn't the best from the start), however some form of indication on how knowledgeable/helpful a player is would certainly benefit the community in my opinion.

Why? From my experience the majority of players that join a forum do so because they seek information or help and often on a 'one-time' basis. Many of the questions raised are rather "basic" or "standard" questions that most of the other community members have probably asked themselves at some point in the past and have found the answer to. Searching the forums and finding threads that answer one's question are sometimes too tedious, found to be too difficult, or are just plainly overlooked. That's why the creation of duplicate threads are not uncommon in any forum. This often comes down to the same culprit: time. If we want an answer, we want it fast, and that also means the answer needs to be right, as otherwise that can result in a lot of time wasted.

How is the above relevant? If the majority of new players often don't find the time to search for the answer(s) they're looking for, then it is logical to assume that they won't have taken the time to distinguish which members have proven themselves knowledgeable and helpful either. That is the dilemma I am attempting to help solve here (which I'm certain you understand).

One could of course argue that it should be entirely left to the users themselves to do this bit of work, but in all honesty, who has the time for that these days. I'm active here nearly several times a day and making a complete list on whom I view as altruistic off the top of my head is rather a tough one.

Such a reputation needs to be earned and maintained over time. My problem with awarding a title is that it come with no accountability. Who's to say the person made an 'Altruist' maintains their degree of knowledge of the game or their helpful attitude...what if they dont? Would they be stripped of their title..and after how long?

This is precisely what I'm aiming to achieve here. An indication that shows a member's reputation as a knowledgeable/helpful user clearly and is kept up-to-date. So the title is a shot down the drain, but I still think we can come up with something appropriate. (All suggestions are welcome of course!)

The idea that comes to mind is the following:

1. Just as we can receive likes in the forum for the posts we make, how about adding an option to give reputation? (Whether you call it help points, altruism, or whatever you fancy - I'm just going to call it reputation for now)
2. Bellow or above one's avatar (to follow the traditional forum style here ) a bar would indicate how much reputation a user has. This bar will gradually fill further and further as reputation accumulates. (Hovering over with a cursor would show the number?)
3. Version 1:Reputation would then accumulate just like the number of likes a user receives, however, after a certain time has passed since the last reputation was received it would begin to decline.
   
4. Version 2: Reputation is accumulated based on receiving positive or negative reception.
5. Obviously there would have to be limits to this kind of stuff as it could easily be abused.

Alternative: Only the staff can give positive reputation points to indicate which players have shown themselves altruistic. (Kind of what the 'like' feature is sometimes used for, but it doesn't quite have the same meaning)

Any other ideas? Or is this thread just doomed?

 

[DeletedUser]

Just as we can receive likes in the forum for the posts we make, how about adding an option to give reputation?

You know very well that mutual admiration societies would run up their reputations, without regard to technical merit.

Anybody who uses the internet more than twice a day becomes very adept at detecting rubbish, and I'd suggest that ALL suggestions should be viewed accordingly. See http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/take-with-a-grain-of-salt.html

 

[DeletedUser]

You know very well that mutual admiration societies would run up their reputations, without regard to technical merit.

Yes. Unfortunately there are people out there who would happily take advantage of such a system. Therefore I had also posted an alternative:

Only the staff can give positive reputation points to indicate which players have shown themselves altruistic.

It does make me wonder though - has the 'like' system here been abused yet...?

Anybody who uses the internet more than twice a day becomes very adept at detecting rubbish, and I'd suggest that ALL suggestions should be viewed accordingly.

Yes, that is generally correct. Which is why everyone first has a chat with the company claiming to feature a new product, then contacts the engineers/designers to ensure that they've been informed correctly, and then visits the manufacturing plant to determine whether a product's description is truly accurate, right? No, that would be going a bit too far. We are talking about just receiving answers to a 'simple' question of a game. That's the point though - a player wants an answer from someone they see confident enough to give them such an answer, without the whole process of determining whether such an answer is correct. Otherwise they probably would not have needed to ask in the first place.

 

[Deleted User - 13667]

I think this is a pretty good idea. It will allow players to check themselves and at the same time provide useful info to others gaining a name for it.

However, Katwijk does have a point on the system of mutual trust get abused abit. Perhaps this is where the moderators should step in to regulate the reptuation system?

 

[DeletedUser]

We don't talk about presidential politics of course, but expertise in one area doesn't imply expertise in all areas.

In college, for example, everybody learns more and more about less and less.

 

[DeletedUser]

Perhaps this is where the moderators should step in to regulate the reptuation system?

Unfortunately this would mean more work for the staff - which is precisely what this suggestion is actually intending to decrease. Regardless of using a reputation system or a title however, mods would still need to read through every post within the forums as Prendyo mentioned above:

it is the moderators responsibility to check that the help being provided is positive, consistent with the forum rules, and at least reasonably accurate. If not, then the moderators should intervene.

And this is where Katwijk's post comes in:

expertise in one area doesn't imply expertise in all areas

Which is beside the point.

An altruist is not somebody who must be an expert in anything, but purely someone who is willing to help others out of free will. A knowledgeable forum user (which is what I have been referring to), is not necessarily an expert either. That's like me stating that I'm an expert in my profession just because I received professional training in it/qualifications and practice that profession regularly. Knowing about something and being an expert in something (never mind everything) are leagues apart.

To make this as clear as I possibly can (at this late hour ):

• We have forum titles displayed beneath each user's name such as Hatchling, Settler, Journeyman, etc. These are nice, but don't indicate anything except the minimum amount of posts a user has made so far
• We have a 'like' system so user's can express satisfaction for a comment made by another user. Again that's nice, but not really meaningful.
• There are trophy points that can be collected as a form of 'achievements' for the amount of posts made and likes received. They speak volumes about how helpful someone is, right?

Now I'm asking whether we can actually get some kind of useful feature that displays how helpful a player has proven themselves throughout the forum. Is that really that wrong?

 

[DeletedUser358]

Sounds kind of like the MVP system on the World of Warcraft forums.
Won't work here, the player-base is just too small.

 

[DeletedUser]

Sounds kind of like the MVP system on the World of Warcraft forums.

After having looked that up, yes, that is basically what I was aiming at if the staff were to accredit a title.

As I will admit that the current player-base is perhaps still too small to be able to implement a community-based system, I've been thinking of an alternative:

The addition of a button for staff members only to state that they (fully) agree with a post and do not need to post additionally themselves. Perhaps that isn't necessary, but considering the staff are required to read through all posts and threads anyhow, this might save some time for the staff and also 'certify' the respective post as being correct.

Worth considering? (Referring more to the staff on this one now I suppose. )

 

[DeletedUser1316]

The addition of a button for staff members only to state that they (fully) agree with a post and do not need to post additionally themselves. Perhaps that isn't necessary, but considering the staff are required to read through all posts and threads anyhow, this might save some time for the staff and also 'certify' the respective post as being correct.

Worth considering? (Referring more to the staff on this one now I suppose. )

Unfortunately, having a title for this is very unlikely as it's something that would need to be approved by the Lead Community Manager and the other markets Community Managers to make sure all markets are identical in structure.

As most of you will see, the current team members are very proactive in using the "Like" button and will always like something they feel confident with sharing to other players (questions, bugs, etc).

 

[DeletedUser]

EDIT: Thanks for replying by the way Aider.

Unfortunately, having a title for this is very unlikely as it's something that would need to be approved by the Lead Community Manager and the other markets Community Managers to make sure all markets are identical in structure.

The title "Altruist" existed once (still exists?) in the FoE forums and was (from my experience) a good way to give community members aiming for mod positions a 'taste' of what it meant to be a part of the team, without officially being recruited yet. Elevenar's community is indeed far too small for such to become necessary, although as the community grows, the option becomes increasingly viable. Personally I can't imagine it being that hard for the community managers to agree on such a title being commended, whether it's 'just' to show appreciation to players who keep a clean vest and help other members regularly, or for recruitment purposes.

In all honesty, I personally prefer the option of a "Staff member agrees" button in addition to the like button. It's not something that would have to be monitored. (Unless edited... )

As most of you will see, the current team members are very proactive in using the "Like" button and will always like something they feel confident with sharing to other players (questions, bugs, etc).

Well, to me a "like" is often an "Oh, that's nice", or "That's funny" kind of statement. Thus not always an "I agree with that". In short: it's ambiguous.

I understand what you mean though Aider, and I appreciate it that the staff do read through every post and "like" them if they agree, find them funny, or for whatever reason that befalls them to press that button.

 

[DeletedUser1316]

EDIT: Thanks for replying by the way Aider.


The title "Altruist" existed once (still exists?) in the FoE forums and was (from my experience) a good way to give community members aiming for mod positions a 'taste' of what it meant to be a part of the team, without officially being recruited yet. Elevenar's community is indeed far too small for such to become necessary, although as the community grows, the option becomes increasingly viable. Personally I can't imagine it being that hard for the community managers to agree on such a title being commended, whether it's 'just' to show appreciation to players who keep a clean vest and help other members regularly, or for recruitment purposes.

Please understand that the lead community management for each game is different in terms of how they want their markets to run. I do remember a title that was held by members on FoE apart from the mod team, but I am not sure if they are still using those to date.

While this idea of course is above my level, I will leave it open for someone that pops over to review the idea that is above me to comment.

In all honesty, I personally prefer the option of a "Staff member agrees" button in addition to the like button. It's not something that would have to be monitored. (Unless edited... )


Well, to me a "like" is often an "Oh, that's nice", or "That's funny" kind of statement. Thus not always an "I agree with that". In short: it's ambiguous.

I understand what you mean though Aider, and I appreciate it that the staff do read through every post and "like" them if they agree, find them funny, or for whatever reason that befalls them to press that button.

Well, if you're writing something of importance to a player whether it be an answer to a question, etc, seeing a like from a team member would illustrate to me that your answer was of good value. If a team member disagrees with a post, they will quote your reply and help correct what was incorrect or not mentioned. I do see your point, but again, this would require additional add-ons that would have to be approved by the Lead Community Manager for all the Elvenar markets.

I'm not trying to tear your idea apart, just giving my feedback. & I am always happy to reply to everyone's ideas, it gives me creative juice that I usually don't have.

 

[DeletedUser]

I'm not trying to tear your idea apart, just giving my feedback. & I am always happy to reply to everyone's ideas, it gives me creative juice that I usually don't have.

Ha! Just try to tear it apart! Come on. I dare you!

Okay, seriously now, I fully understand what you're saying and I'm well aware that it is up to the community managers to make these decisions.

Fact is that the like system is not a feasible system to indicate to new players whether or not the staff approves of a post. Why? Because unless you expect every new player to study the team list and memorise the names, they won't know whether it was a staff member who liked a post or not. To go even further, once 4 or more players have liked a post the name of a staff member might not even be visible any longer.

Of course it can be viewed as a valid argument that a post attracting several likes is probably a very good one. But a "like" still has no actual meaning - because it's still ambiguous and will forever remain so, unless a player states why they liked your post. Gaining approval for your posts through staff not only proves the credibility of the information, but also gives an incentive for members to help others (as s5carrot pointed out).

So, is it necessary to make the effort of adding an additional button just for staff members to approve a post? That really depends on the staff. (Yes, that does have a double meaning I'm afraid...)

And thank you Aider for leaving the thread open for just a little bit longer.

 

[DeletedUser1316]

Ha! Just try to tear it apart! Come on. I dare you!

I wouldn't do such a thing.

Okay, seriously now, I fully understand what you're saying and I'm well aware that it is up to the community managers to make these decisions.

Fact is that the like system is not a feasible system to indicate to new players whether or not the staff approves of a post. Why? Because unless you expect every new player to study the team list and memorise the names, they won't know whether it was a staff member who liked a post or not. To go even further, once 4 or more players have liked a post the name of a staff member might not even be visible any longer.

Why would they need to study our names? Simply clicking the name(s) or the amount of likes at the bottom of the post will bring up everyone who has liked the post and identify their title.

Of course it can be viewed as a valid argument that a post attracting several likes is probably a very good one. But a "like" still has no actual meaning - because it's still ambiguous and will forever remain so, unless a player states why they liked your post. Gaining approval for your posts through staff not only proves the credibility of the information, but also gives an incentive for members to help others (as s5carrot pointed out).

So, is it necessary to make the effort of adding an additional button just for staff members to approve a post? That really depends on the staff. (Yes, that does have a double meaning I'm afraid...)

So, you are saying that because it doesn't say "Staff Approved" other players won't think we agree/like what was said with the comment?

And thank you Aider for leaving the thread open for just a little bit longer.

Of course! I'm not that mean.

 

[DeletedUser815]

Fact is that the like system is not a feasible system to indicate to new players whether or not the staff approves of a post.

Hi @Valerius The staff members are not here to approve or disapprove a particalur post or thread. This is an open forum for the players of Elvenar International to use for voicing their opinions, questions, thoughts etc or for reporting their problems. We will however enforce the rules of the forum and correct anyone who provides incorrect information regarding the game.

 

[DeletedUser]

As the community (staff and members alike) have adequately stated their disapproval of any of my suggestions stated herein, I withdraw my support for the time being.

While this idea is no longer being maintained by it's creator, feel free to continue the discussion at your own will.
Thank you to all who participated.

​

P.S: Thanks again Aider, I didn't know about that list. You learn something new every day I guess...