Answered Push-account

[DeletedUser3337]

Hello players or Elvenar,

I have a sincere question about the term: Push-account.
This is what the gamerule states:

§7 Pushing

• Operating a “push-account” is forbidden. This is defined as unbalanced routine resource (resources, Knowledge Points etc.) transfers from one account to the next even if involved accounts do not belong to the same player.

"Unbalanced" means, you put up trades at high costs in your 1. account and 2. account accepts them?
Is the purpose of a push-account to gain profit in any kind of ranking? Meaning "pushing" the rankings?

I tried to get an answer from support as I seriously do not understand what is considered cheating and what is not. But its still unclear. I tried to get an answer in another thread but it could easily be mistaken as rude conduct, so this is why I hope I get the right answer here.

Thanks in advance for a reply,
Pimpy

 

[DeletedUser3034]

My understanding hinges on the phrase "routine resource transfers". Example: you need silk to accomplish a research. I agree to swap my silk for your steel at a ridiculous rate, say 100 steel for 100 silk. As a one-off, to help you past that hurdle it's good fellowship. If we make a routine of it, doing it frequently / regularly, it's a push an violates the rules.

I think the term 'push' comes from the problem way back where a player would create several accounts, and push goods, resources from all the small ones to the largest so as to gain unfair advantage over the other players.

Again, MY understanding, MY opinion, but based on nearly 10 years playing Inno's games.

 

[DeletedUser3337]

Thanks for your fast reply gandolfus

So its the frequent factor that makes it cheating?
That sounds about right to me.

Can I once more ask for your opinion?
Doing these trades at ridiculous rates (between high and low ranked fellows - or even 2 accounts of the same player) during a tourament to the extent that lower ranked fellows are able to gain a lot of tournament points, with the result of gaining a spot in the top 10 and thus recieving ranking points as a reward (next to extra KP, 10th chest etc.)
Is that within the rules or not?

This is what noone can give me an answer too.
I am a freak when it comes to honesty, please forgive my persistance.

 

[DeletedUser3034]

My opinion makes no differance as I neither make nor enforce the rules. All you and I can do is report behavior we believe to be rule breaking to support and let them examine the historical data and decide.

 

[DeletedUser3337]

Thanks
Thing is, one never gets to know the decission made by support and thus one will never know what is allowed within the rules or not.
Its the precision of the rule, I am intrested in
Maybe a forum mod can explain the exact definition of a "push-account" and the reflection of it on tournaments.

 

[DeletedUser3318]

It's not to say that fellowships may not help their members. But if the help is grossly advantageous to a specific player, the moderation team will take a look at what is happening and take action if need be.

We cannot give a precise definition to the rule as each case is different and there are a lot of factors to consider.

To be safe, if you feel there is an unfair advantage, best you report it via a support ticket so we can take a look.

 

[DeletedUser3337]

Thank you for your reply Blue Admiral.

 

[DeletedUser3337]

@gandolfus

I had a reply from Innogames which makes it more clear now:

Q: Can I send rescources to another player (multiple times) at an extreme low rate, during a tournament?
A: Yes, you can do this – as long as it’s in acceptable quantities. We use a “common sense approach” to help us determine rule breaking here.

Q: Is it a form of pushing if these very cheap resources are used to cater provinces and gain extra tournament points, more chests?
A: No, using goods you have is not pushing. Pushing would be before that already: the moment you receive the goods.

 

[DeletedUser1197]

@gandolfus

I had a reply from Innogames which makes it more clear now:

Q: Can I send rescources to another player (multiple times) at an extreme low rate, during a tournament?
A: Yes, you can do this – as long as it’s in acceptable quantities. We use a “common sense approach” to help us determine rule breaking here.

Q: Is it a form of pushing if these very cheap resources are used to cater provinces and gain extra tournament points, more chests?
A: No, using goods you have is not pushing. Pushing would be before that already: the moment you receive the goods.

There is too much "common sense" in the answers and there are no clear criteria. Do I understand correctly?

A1: you CAN send goods to another player at an extreme low rate in acceptable??? quantities, BUT
A2: pushing is when he receive the goods.

Conclusion: the pushing of other players is allowed.

 

[DeletedUser3337]

And my post wast edited because I posted the email adress of Innogames Custumer Support, which can simply be found on the internet.
Who are very friendly btw. thumbs up!

If it is allowed for one person, to have 2 accounts in the same fellowship and you can send resources to yourself, at extreme low rates ... in acceptable quantaties, for me that is cheating, for Elvenar this is not. Simple is that, one has to accept it

Go ahead moderator, do what you have to do ... again.

 

[DeletedUser3032]

This is the question I asked.

Q: so using multiple accounts to push another account with extra resources, kp and anything else is completely allowed?

This is the answer from the top dog.

A: No. Please refer to our game rules for more information on that (paragraph 7).

Sums it up.

• Operating a “push-account” is forbidden. This is defined as unbalanced routine resource (resources, Knowledge Points etc.) transfers from one account to the next even if involved accounts do not belong to the same player. It is forbidden to create trades in any form (goods, Knowledge Points etc.) that involve multiple worlds.
• Please note that it is strictly forbidden to use the invite feature to invite yourself or players that share an internet connection with you.

So NO UNBALANCED routine trading between yourself or others, in the same FS or own neighborhood.
Cannot invite yourself into same FS. < Even if you spoof your IP, it's still you!!

 

[Alcaro]

• Please note that it is strictly forbidden to use the invite feature to invite yourself or players that share an internet connection with you.

So NO UNBALANCED routine trading between yourself or others, in the same FS or own neighborhood.
Cannot invite yourself into same FS. < Even if you spoof your IP, it's still you!!

And who is checking this? Just curious

 

[DeletedUser3337]

• Please note that it is strictly forbidden to use the invite feature to invite yourself or players that share an internet connection with you.

The answer of InnoGames Support in Germany (not Elvenar Support):

Regarding the “invite feature” we mean a feature with which you can recruit friends into the game, not the fellowship invitations. Elvenar does not currently have such a feature.

Any addition Pimpy has:

If I see high ranked fellowships with players that have 200k+/100k+ rankingpoints, and that lonesome low ranker, then it smells like they are 'using' this low ranker as a catering 'object' during tournaments to gain more TP/chests.
From expierence I know this is done and I was told it was ok to do.
I have recently reported players with 3 accounts, even after opening my ticket, I see one of them using 3 accounts in the same fellowship.
Does support care? No.
Standards of Elvenar, what can one say, nada

Btw buffie, I am not gonne let this ruin the joy of this game, like it did in Anno

 

[DeletedUser3366]

The rule is not about 'Helping another player'. It is about opening a second account to push yourself. That is illegal anyway (you may not have 2 accounts on the same server) but an account that accept a lot of unfair trades is easy to find in the trade logs, so mods will want to know if it is someone helping another player or some player pushing himself.

 

[DeletedUser3097]

you may not have 2 accounts on the same server

You are allowed to have multiple accounts on the same server but not if they are used to 'push' goods or KPs, (a vast quantity of regular trades which favour one account or donating many KPs to an AW).

 

[DeletedUser3032]

@Dizzy Lizzie And they are allowed in the same FS also??

There are different answers about this from everyone including mods and admins. Maybe there needs 1 complete accurate answer, not something which can be misinterpreted and abused.

 

[DeletedUser3337]

Buffie I am not the glorious Dizzy Lizzie but I can tell you what the peeps of InnoGames Germany said.
..... so the ones who know best, imho.

Q: Is a player allowed to have 2 accounts in the same fellowship?
A: Yes, this is allowed.

 

[DeletedUser3032]

Yeah, one of the answers I had come from Inno too.

May as well make 100 new accounts, eventually get them within your neighborhood, with all 9 boosted goods and trade fairly between them. Meanwhile, 91 of them will be another 91 useless ghost cities which won't be removed. Or just go lonewolf in your own FS. Pretty boring and you will only have your neighborhood to trade decently with unless you play all 9 cities fully.

Think there needs to be some sort of balance done to this. The easiest way would be to let people select the boosted goods, which would eliminate most of the ghost cities for good. Just leaving the ones people play for 5 minutes and quit. There's only so many combinations of boosted goods that you can get. Probably been suggested before, so I won't waste my time. It's more than likely been trashed.

 

[Killiak]

The second you make tournaments a Fellowship experience, with fellowship wide rewards, you open up a can of worms with regards to the pushing rule.

Because is it really "pushing" another player if you are doing it out of the (self-)interest / teamwork of getting the entire Fellowship better rewards? (mind you; I am assuming all seperate players in the fellowship)

 

[KermitsDad]

The easiest way would be to let people select the boosted goods, which would eliminate most of the ghost cities for good. Just leaving the ones people play for 5 minutes and quit. There's only so many combinations of boosted goods that you can get. Probably been suggested before, so I won't waste my time. It's more than likely been trashed.

I have suggested exactly this before:
Option to choose 3 Production boosts at start of game
https://en.forum.elvenar.com/index....tion-boosts-at-start-of-game.3654/#post-26081