Update Discussion Discussion: New Spìre of Eternity rewards.

[Laurelin]

Maths and I do not get on very well, to say the least, but a thought occurs: if we continue to see [different] Evolving Buildings as Event Grand Prizes, and if Events are spaced around six weeks apart, and if all previous Evolving Buildings' Artifacts are due to get a turn in the Spire every six weeks, would that lead to the first Building's Artifacts never reappearing, or am I being as Maths-incapable as I ususally am...?

If so, though, or even if the previous Buildings' Artifacts start to lag behind to such an extent - or if the RNG system by which they are awarded is considered such a slow and unreliable acquisition method - that even new players start to realise that it's not worth spending Resources/Diamonds in the Spire on a constant basis, hoping for useful past Grand Prizes to result... then perhaps this bizarre new system of rapid Artifact-cycling is actually a prelude to the introduction of a Universal Artifact, which can be created by breaking down X or Y Artifacts and reassembling them into Z Artifact?

If my own experience is any guide, completing two Spire levels each week (plus two full Spire completions during the six-week Phoenix Artifacts phase) is leading to nothing much more useful than my Inventory beginning to fill up with 1-3 x different types of Artifact, but not enough of any of them to create a worthwhile Evolving Building... so perhaps, in the end, even newer players, too, will realise that the current RNG method of handing out a few but not enough Artifacts (together with asking for a large amount of Resources in the MA to craft the building bases - they really are not cheap) is not a workable system at all, and at that point Inno will finally bring on the Artifact Fragments we have all been requesting for so long...?

Can but hope... that such a system will be worth enough revenue for Inno to actually introduce it, finally!

 

[Deleted User - 341074]

if we continue to see [different] Evolving Buildings as Event Grand Prizes, and if Events are spaced around six weeks apart, and if all previous Evolving Buildings' Artifacts are due to get a turn in the Spire every six weeks, would that lead to the first Building's Artifacts never reappearing, or am I being as Maths-incapable as I ususally am...?

If we get a new artifact every 6 weeks in the spire but add a new artifact every ~8 weeks to thelist we will catch up eventually.
8 steps forward 6 steps back is progress, but 12+ months is already a long time.

 

[Gargon667]

If we get a new artifact every 6 weeks in the spire but add a new artifact every ~8 weeks to thelist we will catch up eventually.
8 steps forward 6 steps back is progress, but 12+ months is already a long time.

It´s more like 6 weeks for new artifacts though.
3 weeks event, 1 week FA and 1 week between each... (an event can be a few days longer, but the time in between can also be shorter)

 

[CrazyWizard]

Elvenarian Carneval
Gathering of the phoenix cult
May celebrattions
air traders
Sorcerers pilgrimage
autumn zopdiac
misty forest
winter magic

I count 8 events last year 52/8 = 6.5 weeks so it's indeed every 6 or so weeks.
But 1 of those prizes was a set and not en evolution building. we we got an avolution building 52/7=7.5 weeks on average.

There are no rules that every event needs to be an evolution building.

 

[Gargon667]

Elvenarian Carneval
Gathering of the phoenix cult
May celebrattions
air traders
Sorcerers pilgrimage
autumn zopdiac
misty forest
winter magic

I count 8 events last year 52/8 = 6.5 weeks so it's indeed every 6 or so weeks.
But 1 of those prizes was a set and not en evolution building. we we got an avolution building 52/7=7.5 weeks on average.

There are no rules that every event needs to be an evolution building.

So if that system was extrapolated: once a year the spire would catch up by 6 weeks when we get the one set per year I am not going to waste my time on calculating how long it will be until the old phoenix artifacts come around again But I agree they might even before I die lol.
Anyway I don´t think the whole thing will continue in this way anyway. I think it´s just something Inno does as a placeholder while they come up with something else... just may take a few years as always...

 

[Sigyn]

I really liked the Moonstone Library set especially as could replace the pieces as moved through the chapters without having to use even more restoration spells - when it was announced that would be craftable I was happy it hadn't been deleted completely - however I'm a very active crafter and not once have I seen any of the library sections appear in my MA - My set pieces are now 2+ chapters behind and it's really getting me down - not to mention I have only had 1 Stonehenge artefact so absolutely no point in crafting this either (The Stonehenge event was from before i started playing so this was my first chance at this evolvable building).
I know its mean to be rare but this is ridiculous - or is it just that you can only have so many of the buildings - I don't want to delete the ones I have on the off chance this might be the case.
Also the 6 weeks is up this week - what will happen in next weeks spire?
I'd really love it if the Moonstone Library could be present in the spire for a week every moth or something - so that it was regular but not constant - 1 week in every month or every fourth month - I think it would also really improve spire participation - I definitely would complete the whole thing if I thought there was a chance at getting a new main library building. Having the set as a regular but intermittent reward would be the best of both worlds, satisfying both its fans and the players that want a change.

 

[CrazyWizard]

I really liked the Moonstone Library set especially as could replace the pieces as moved through the chapters without having to use even more restoration spells - when it was announced that would be craftable I was happy it hadn't been deleted completely - however I'm a very active crafter and not once have I seen any of the library sections appear in my MA - My set pieces are now 2+ chapters behind and it's really getting me down - not to mention I have only had 1 Stonehenge artefact so absolutely no point in crafting this either (The Stonehenge event was from before i started playing so this was my first chance at this evolvable building).
I know its mean to be rare but this is ridiculous - or is it just that you can only have so many of the buildings - I don't want to delete the ones I have on the off chance this might be the case.
Also the 6 weeks is up this week - what will happen in next weeks spire?
I'd really love it if the Moonstone Library could be present in the spire for a week every moth or something - so that it was regular but not constant - 1 week in every month or every fourth month - I think it would also really improve spire participation - I definitely would complete the whole thing if I thought there was a chance at getting a new main library building. Having the set as a regular but intermittent reward would be the best of both worlds, satisfying both its fans and the players that want a change.

You can only craft 1 moonstone set, if you own a single piece in either your city or inventory it will not reappear in the crafter.

The moonstone set is removed from the spire for obvious reasons, it created havoc under scroll players as nobody likes to take there scrolls.
Spire creates the ability to get multiple sets/parts which makes this set way worse than anything else.

 

[Laurelin]

Also the 6 weeks is up this week - what will happen in next weeks spire?

@Sigyn :

Spoiler: It's probable...

... although not guaranteed, that the Stonehenge Artifacts will be replaced by Artifacts for the Mermaids' Paradise - another Evolving Building which was the next Event Grand Prize after the Stonehenge building.

And while I'm here : your post - and your unfortunate luck in acquiring Stonehenge Artifacts via the Spire, which, at one Artifact, happens to equal my own overall success rate - reminds me to ask - anyone? - about the success rate of other visitors here in acquiring Artifacts from the Spire over the past weeks, whether those be Phoenix or Stonehenge Artifacts, since both should be appearing with equal probability, after all.

In addition to my single Stonehenge Artifact (which I made no special attempt to win, so my weekly Spire performance was actually rather below my average, with four Stage 2 finishes, one Stage 1 finish, and one complete absence from the Spire), I myself also won two Phoenix Artifacts - although I actively tried to win those, so I put in two full Spire clearances and four Stage 2 finishes during the six-week Phoenix Artifact Spire period. Interesting, in fact, that my best concerted effort (full spire Clearance costs me around 8-10 days' Resources*, so is unsustainable, and even weekly Stage 2 isn't at all cheap) produced only +1 Artifact when compared with an exaggeratedly low-effort (for me) six weeks' worth of Spire runs... but I'm only one person, so my results aren't at all indicative of the general level of success in what is, much to my own dislike, a random Artifact awarding system.

* If anyone who wonders why the high cost: it's because I'm in Woodelves - past the 'easy Spire' lower Chapters, but before the most useful necessary Troop upgrades which enable a decent weekly Tourney performance (my priority by a very long way indeed) as well as a decent and sustainable Spire effort.

So, are there any others here who'd care to share how many Artifacts (Phoenix and Stonehenge) they've won? It would also be interesting to know whether those wins correlate with higher, lower, or 'same as usual' levels of effort in the Spire - but any replies at all would be really welcome...!

I'd really love it if the Moonstone Library could be present in the spire for a week every moth or something - so that it was regular but not constant [...] Having the set as a regular but intermittent reward would be the best of both worlds, satisfying both its fans and the players that want a change.

This is a very understandable view, especially since some players have found the room in their builds (I still don't know how, or even why!) to place 4, 5, or even ten or more Spire Library sets. Even so, I'm with @CrazyWizard on this, since the Spire Set has certainly caused, and still causes, very serious imbalances in the Trade market - with the now near-universal excess of Scrolls [and related higher-Tier Goods] being the first and most visible unwanted effect, but with other (and related) effects now coming into play, such as shortages of the other two T2 Goods, and an increasing volume of T3 downtrades being placed by players both old and, regrettably, new as well, since they now see this being done so often by established Cities.

 

[CrazyWizard]

@Sigyn :

Spoiler: It's probable...

Interesting, in fact, that my best concerted effort (full spire Clearance costs me around 8-10 days' Resources*, so is unsustainable, and even weekly Stage 2 isn't at all cheap)

Spoiler: It's probable...

Not sure what is going wrong but spire should not cost 8-10 days of recources.
Maybe it requires some city adjustment, maybe you do something "wrong" not sure but especially stage 2 should be easy for every established player without much adjustment

 

[Laurelin]

@CrazyWizard : All that you say is true enough, and I'd like to explain myself, but to avoid derailing the thread (and boring any other readers!)...

Spoiler: Off-topic re Spire Costs / City Build

Not sure what is going wrong but spire should not cost 8-10 days of recources.

You're right. I do include my Troops within the category of Resources (many don't, I know), so that's one factor that may not be obvious; rebuilding them is a Supplies-costly process, of course. But even so, you're still right. The reason/problem is that I am unwilling to commit to any particular strategy (especially narrower and thus more efficient strategies) when it comes to my City build, so I am running a far less efficient build than is possible; I specialise neither in Troops nor in Goods, but rather [intentionally] over-produce and stockpile both, as well as all other Resources (Settlement Goods, Mana, Population...) which in turn causes my City footprint to be [very] overly large, which then (of course) causes my Tournament/Spire Squad Size and Catering Costs to be a lot higher than they certainly could be.

I do this for a few reasons, including:

-- I am a reasonably competent manual fighter, but I also freely admit to being a lazy one who really doesn't love the Combat system at all... so the less time spent there, the better - meaning that I do Cater quite a few Encounters which could be won with a determined... but lengthy and dull!... battle instead. The reason I mention the later and better Troops (obviously 2* or better Frogs and 3* Blossoms and Rangers, plus better Orc Strats than my 1* Units) is because they will let me auto-fight many Spire/Tourney Encounters I currently have to either manually fight or Cater. I'm a slow player, so I've only yesterday even achieved 2* Dryads, but at least they can (in easier fights) finally help out my heavily overworked 3* Archers and Golems (and my 3* Dogs, vs optimal Enemy Unit combos)...!

-- Ability to cover times when I cannot log on for a day, or even several days in a row, for whatever reason - including long-term illness [I'm used to it, but it can prevent gaming], but also including my long habit of not allowing any online game to place too much demand on my offline time;

-- Ability to deal with any unexpected and potentially Resource-costly unexpected changes which may appear in-game, with or without notice;

-- Poor luck in Crafting and in the Spire leading to a chronically low available number of 5-day Booster buildings (3-4 in stock at most, at any one time), plus almost no DAs ever won... almost 18 months of Stage 2 Spire, with maybe a dozen full clearances, have earned me precisely eight DAs... ever. This means that I have to ration (in particular) my +HP buildings, so my Troops are often fighting with base HP (which as you know isn't great) - hence more Catering, and pretty much 100% Catering in Spire Stage 3 (I do try to fight the Boss battles, to avoid the awful lottery of 7-8 Diplomacy choices). Oh, and - it's taken me until now - the Phoenix Event - to finally replace the Stage 10 Fire Phoenix I easily won (in a different and now abandoned City) during the original 2019 Phoenix Event... you may even recall the post when you and I disagreed about the ease - or otherwise! - of winning, without buying extra Event Currency, those original buildings?

-- Avoidance of the need to make any significant, unexpectedly Resource-demanding, and/or time-consuming adjustment(s) to my City build. I don't care to devote as much time to Elvenar as many here evidently do - just personal preference; no criticism intended, of course! - and so I would rather run a build which, although less than optimally efficient, is at least capable, without more than quick and minor re-working, of achieving all that the game presently requires (Chapter progress, non-PP-rushed Guest Races [saving those PPs for end-game!], stress-free Event completion, decent Tourney, competent FA, FS-useful level of Spire [I personally dislike the Spire and am consistently unlucky in earning the non-trivial rewards which would compensate for that dislike], as well as being such a 'broad' and general-purpose build that it can (probably!) also deal with any future major changes as well - again, without my needing to devote time I'd rather spend elsewhere reworking parts or all of my City.

Maybe it requires some city adjustment, maybe you do something "wrong" not sure but especially stage 2 should be easy for every established player without much adjustment

Again, you're absolutely right. I actually know what I'm doing wrong (not to be unkind or arrogant, but working out how games like Elvenar function isn't exactly rocket science... ) - as above, I'm [intentionally] both aiming for a build which is best described as 'Jack of All Trades, Master of None', and also as 'Overproducing and Stockpiling Machine a.k.a. Insurance against Future Nerfs Balancing Changes'...

You know, CrazyWiz, I've read your posts almost every day of the past three years, here and on the US and Beta Forums, with much interest and almost always with agreement, and always with much admiration for your truly in-depth knowledge of the game, but in my early months of Elvenar, your own website was always my first and most appreciated reference source, especially on Combat and Ancient Wonders. And although I'm sure there are many others who are just as committed to, and grateful for, your Forum words of wisdom as I am, I wonder whether you have considered updating your own personal site since the last Tourney (and Event) changes - especially your invaluable AW advice section...?

Just a thought, while I have your ear, as it were...!

 

[MinervaOz]

I've got 4 Stonehenge artifacts so far - I haven't done level 3 this week yet so still time for more if I'm unlucky. I think I got 5 phoenix artifacts if my memory is correct (I've been crafting them from the ashen phoenix ones so my inventory isn't a reliable guide). I always go to the top of the Spire so same effort throughout the time period.

 

[DeletedUser]

In my ch12 city i have gotten 2 Stonehenge artifacts within the last 3 weeks. The other weeks before that, none. I have only done 2 levels of the Spire.

None in my ch15 in all the last 6 weeks. Also level 2 only.

 

[Pauly7]

I am presuming, @InnoGames, that deciding to put old artefacts in as spire prizes on 6 week rotations must have followed a degree of analysis of the player base. I say this because the percentage of players receiving 9 artefacts in 6 weeks must be negligibly small. I won't even attempt this maths, because I know there are several variables to consider, including ones I don't have the numbers on, i.e. number of people who complete the spire (or average progress through the spire), number of people who play it at all, plus the likely number of artefacts to be won.

If I were to take a guess then I would imagine less than 1% of players win all 9 artefacts in the 6 weeks. Out of that small number I would take the educated guess that a healthy proportion were playing the game at the time of the original event, as people completing the spire each week are probably more likely to be more established players (just an assumption of a general likelihood.)

The point here is that the number of people winning 9 artefacts who actually have any use for 9 artefacts must be such a small number as to not even register as a factor.

Therefore, other than the above, the only people who will be interested in this idea are those people who have pre-existing semi-evolved buildings. Any of those people would happily accept an extra few artefacts to complete their buildings.

I know that I am covering old ground that I myself have gone over several times... probably in this same thread... but the point of my post, @InnoGames, is that if you took the decision to launch this particular initiative, then you must first have looked at the number of players who are currently active in the game and who have the building already which isn't already at level 10. It occurs to me that the number of people in this second group are probably even smaller than those in the first, but you must have familiarised yourself with this number... right?

If I'm right, then I ask again - Why?

This is to solve the issue with the Spire Library Set, but not only does it not solve it at all (people with multiple sets still have multiple sets and other players can no longer narrow the gap), but it also generates a growing number of disgruntled players like @Sigyn, who have lost the Spire Set and nothing worthwhile has replaced it.

 

[DeletedUser]

My guess; There's a lot of newer players which have only evolved their buildings to maybe level 3-4-5 or so. I have seen a good part of them in my neighbourhood. So when INNO wants us to play the Spire, well - It's actually from that standpoint a good idea to put artifacts in the chests - AND also thereby force some diamonds out of their hands too, to get those artifacts

And i'll bet you anything you want, that they know every tiny number move and change the game according to it. There's no reason not to if you're selling something in the game. I'll bet you that they even have analysts for this. Just crunching the numbers and see what can be twitched

It's a business, so of course

 

[Pauly7]

And i'll bet you anything you want, that they know every tiny number move and change the game according to it.

I agree, which is why I posed my question... Not that I expect it to ever be answered.

However, I find it difficult to imagine that there is this large number of players that you suppose, who have these pre-existing semi-evolved buildings and who are still active today. Even if there are, then they are likely very casual players who dipped in occasionally in order to end up having a level 5 Stonehenge the first time through. Are these casual players now likely to put much effort into getting to the top of the spire?

Still, you might have the answer - the whole initiative might be in order to target those players who only log in a few times a week and tempt them into becoming more regular players with the opportunity to evolve their old buildings.

Regardless, I still think it's a terrible idea as there are only going to be a tiny number of people that they can tempt into active play. This will surely be far outweighed by the people (like me) who are in disbelief at the whole notion... and worse still, probably outweighed by the people getting angry enough to quit because the spire has become less of a motivating factor now.

All these things are reasons why I would like them to answer my question.

 

[DeletedUser]

I think, if you take all what they are doing, looking at how ch18 is going to be, and also how the events are now. One really needs luck in the chest to win extra currency, otherwise there's no fully evolved building. My ch12 city got one, but i also got some help from the chests. That i didn't in my ch15 city, so only level 9.

But then there's the FA, which gives 2 artifacts. It's all to get us to play more, and i think it works on newer players. It's only us that have been around for some years and remember "the good old days" - We sit there like grumpy old men

They are for sure getting enough new players in, since they really do so much which makes long time players leave - And they don't care. So there's more money in the new players. They're probably more eager to get ahead and therefor willing to pay.

I wonder why they're not axing all those Moonstone sets. It's like they want the game to be unbalanced for some reason. And it's real crap when having scroll as boost. I really have a hard time getting those swapped for anything useful to me

If they wanted to balance the game so that it was possible to trade and get the stuff needed, then they could give a swap between either a Magic Residence or WS for each set that was extra, above one. They can't fix this no matter what they do otherwise. They can't introduce other T2 producing buildings or sets, it would just make it even worse.

But maybe they're trying to annoy those players out of the game, because it's the bigger players with the bigger cities, mostly, which have more than one set, and then their problem is solved

 

[Stucon]

I top the spire each week.
I had one phoenix artifact during the last set.
I have two stonehenge artifacts thus far
I don't have a use for any of them. Ho hum.

 

[Pauly7]

They can't introduce other T2 producing buildings or sets, it would just make it even worse.

Yes they could. It would just need to be boosted goods, or boost +1, etc. They would preferably have to make it slightly better overall than the Moonstone set, to tempt people into replacing them, but they're never keen on bringing out something that's better than the last thing.

 

[Gargon667]

I always finish the spire, I guess I got 3 or 4 artifacts of each. Hard to say, I had some of each before and I don´t care enough to keep track.

 

[DeletedUser]

Yes they could. It would just need to be boosted goods, or boost +1, etc. They would preferably have to make it slightly better overall than the Moonstone set, to tempt people into replacing them, but they're never keen on bringing out something that's better than the last thing.

No you would just make a ton of "free" T2 floating around, making it even harder getting trades for T1. The problem is that they from the beginning made the mistake that we could win more than one set.

I just found a neighbour in my ch12 city's new hood; She has 14 sets

And only one T1 and 2 T3. No more else is needed with those tons of scrolls coming in every day. Yes yes, i know of curse it varies how much one needs blah blah blah in regards to playing style aso