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World Map Player Movement Changes

Hekata

Summoner
I didn't have any empty provinces around me where I was and now I have loads, yes neighbourly help is better and trades are about the same but why bother completing provinces to gain a gold mine.
I have a similar problem, I seem to be at the edge and all my active neighbour as stacked to the west and north, while to the south and east it's just dead cities and gold mines which means no use scouting there and that annoys me because like to keep expending my borders equally in all directions.
 
I have a similar problem, I seem to be at the edge and all my active neighbour as stacked to the west and north, while to the south and east it's just dead cities and gold mines which means no use scouting there and that annoys me because like to keep expending my borders equally in all directions.
I tend to look at the trader before I expand and look at the people I need to trade with. I really aren't interested in an equal map.
Glad you're sticking up for me though
 

Laurelin

Enchanter
@Herodite (sorry to pick on you, but I haven't had a reply from any of the other mods for a long time) : Is the 'Big Forced Move' now considered to be finished, with the system returning - next Monday, according to what I've read here and there? - to the 'standard' version (whatever that may be - it would actually be good to know how it works, with certainty, rather than leaving it up to players to try and second-guess it, although I appreciate that you're not likely to get an answer on any question at all about any in-game mechanics... unfortunately). Thanks in advance! :)
 
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Herodite

Senior Forum Moderator
Elvenar Team
Hi @Laurelin It's quite alright. I'm normally the one lurking around anyway :D I will get this clarified, but it's my understanding that the bulk of the "Big Move" has now been completed. That being said though, the Option to Stay or Move hasn't returned to the settings just yet so let me just go and find out if there are to be any more little shifts before normal service resumes! :)

Kind Regards

Herodite.
 

rock stream

Scholar
I'm still the clear on how it is suppose to work. I checked 3 of the inactive accounts nearest to me. One hasn't been active since Dec 19 and the other two became inactive only in October.
I assume Dec 19 will get moved with the on going forced move but the recent in actives will wait for x amount of time before being moved?
When the move button is restored will it be set at its previous setting? It has been assumed that every move, when made, will improve your location in the program (to the middle). As such when the button is restored it should be set to move.
Herodite you've been doing a herculean effort explaining this major shift in game playing when a full explanation should of been provided by Inno. My questions are of general interest and do not warrant effort to answer.
I'm still indigesting this shift in the space time continuum but I see it impacting the benefit of Blooming Trader Guild as we will have coins coming our of our ears.
 
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Hekata

Summoner
I tend to look at the trader before I expand and look at the people I need to trade with. I really aren't interested in an equal map.
Glad you're sticking up for me though
I used to do that while I had offers on the trader that are out of my reach but it's been a very long time since that's been the case so now I try to scout the province with the shortest scouting time, which means scouting equally on all sides.
 

Hekata

Summoner
I assume Dec 19 will get moved with the on going forced move but the recent in actives will wait for x amount of time before being moved?
It seems that's not how it works. My closest neighbour (A) has been a very casual player for a long time and had long periods when they don't play and then periods when they are more active. They seem to have been inactive for at least 6 months now and they were (re)moved yesterday. My other closest neighbour (B) has been inactive since I started playing so over 4 years now and yet they are still there. No idea why that particular dead city has survived as long as they did. Maybe it's a "spy" city the devs use to keep an eye on our neighbourhood, lol :D

EDIT: And the new player who has taken the spot of player A is also inactive, btw :)
 
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Hekata

Summoner
I hope it's not over I have a load of money pits to the north west of my city - and seem to be on the edge of the desert - no fun at all - good job I'm in a good fellowship
Yeah, I keep hoping to see the gold pits in my NH disappear but I think there might be more of them now than yesterday :(
 

Gargon667

Immortal
Exactly, here only Inno wins nobody else that's why there's no need to have guns blazing.

99% of all players win!!!
Inno wins? maybe because the game becomes better? sure. Don´t see what´s wrong with a better game though.

Also i don´t see any blazing guns anywhere? Or do you mean that minority complaining about the moves? That is what I am here to oppose by saying that the percentage of players with a negative outcome of the move is nearly negligible small.
 

Gargon667

Immortal
I suppose there always be players at the edge of the map that won't have the same benefit as the players in the middle of the map. I hope that Inno keeps the spots at the edge of the map for new players rather than big players that need much bigger trades.
Well I could argue that trades are much more important for new than for old towns, but I think it is rather unimportant as the algorithm won´t make a difference between old and new (once the first few chapters are played).

Well there is the fact that there will always be an edge, it is not possible to not have an edge in a layout like the one we have in elvenar. But this cleansing, shrinking, moving and forced moving all has led to a much smaller center and therefore a much smaller edge, and a huge wasteland of inactiveness that nobody cares about anymore. As a result much fewer people now inhabit the edge zone as before.

But the edge zones should be rather fluent constructs, so hopefully nobody will be stuck there forever, rather many of us share the burden on occasion. Of course active people in close to the very center will never be moved outwards, but as new towns join the map grows and fills the edges to shift them outwards. When towns are deleted and a move is scheduled towns will be moved from the edge to the center (thus leaving the edge game to others). For new towns it all depends on timing, is there a gold mine in the center they will get that spot, is there no gold mine in the center they will be placed on the edge. So really it depends if the removal algorithm is run right before the move (which I don´t know). If for example the removal algorith is run daily, while the move is run weekly, most new towns should spawn in the center, if both are run weekly one right after the other, most of the center spots will be filled by bigger active towns. In the end I don´t believe it matters much as long as the inactive ones get removed frequently. I personally find it more elegant if bigger towns were moved to the center and smaller ones spawned on the edge, so the process of moving towards the center becomes a part of progression in the game and also because people would be guaranteed to not be stuck on the edge forever. In the other model people could be extremely unlucky and be stuck on the edge for a long time. Unlikely, but possible.
 
99% of all players win!!!
Inno wins? maybe because the game becomes better? sure. Don´t see what´s wrong with a better game though.

Also i don´t see any blazing guns anywhere? Or do you mean that minority complaining about the moves? That is what I am here to oppose by saying that the percentage of players with a negative outcome of the move is nearly negligible small.

Inno wins every argument nobody else, they always have the final say ;)
All we can do is to provide useful information so they make an educated decision. That's why the more people want to make a post the better, Inno will make a better decision for it. They don't look at who won the argument here.
 

Gargon667

Immortal
I'm still the clear on how it is suppose to work. I checked 3 of the inactive accounts nearest to me. One hasn't been active since Dec 19 and the other two became inactive only in October.
I assume Dec 19 will get moved with the on going forced move but the recent in actives will wait for x amount of time before being moved?

I think you are mixing up 2 different things done by 2 different algorithms.

1: Cleaning algorithm: It deletes inactive accounts from the map (or alternatively puts them in storage so they can be reactivated/respawned when they return to active, I am not sure on the current state of this storage option, it has been proclaimed a longtime ago, but I am doubtful it actually is working right now). An inactive town will not be moved ever. Either it stays where it is (depending on the exact conditions of inactivity used by the algorithm) or they will be completely removed from the map, but they will not be moved to a different location.
Another thing I do not know is how big the radius of operation is, I do not believe it currently operates on the entire map, but I think it starts operating in the center, works outwards from there and then stops working at some point. Which would mean inactive towns far from the center would not get deleted, but will simply stay where they are in a wastland of gold mines and inactive towns. This may be a temporary thing until the storage option is put into place. There is even a tiny chance that until the storage is put into place inactive towns could be moved to the edge, so as to not lose their information, but I don´t think that is the case.

2: Moving algorithm: It takes an active town from the edge and moves it closer to the center IF a suitable spot is available. 3 Conditions here: 1. Activity, 2. distance from center, 3. Available spot closer to the center. So when a town is checked by the moving algorithm it will either stay where it is (if 1 or more of the 3 conditions is not met) or it will be moved closer to the center.

The 2 algorithms are completely separate, although they could of course be run one after the other. And also the moving algorithm depends on having empty space in the center, so there is a need for both.

So if we are looking at your example the most important question that determines the outcome of what happens to them (and you) is: Where are you located? Center or edge?
The town inactive for a year should most certainly be classified as inactive, so if you are in the center it should be removed, if you are far away it should be ignored.
The towns inactive for a month, might be classified as inactive or active depending on the conditions used. if inactive, then same as above.
If they are classified as active, the same will happen to them as will (or has) happen(ed) to you. If you are in the center, nothing will happen, if you are far away you will be moved closer to the center.
 

rock stream

Scholar
How about if a city has been discovered, it remains discovered for the purposes of trades at least, regardless of fhe current map?
No.
If you or your discovered "trading" city are moved you no longer can trade. If you have discovered 50 cities and are moved you will still have discovered 50 cities but probable not any of the same. I'm on ring 14 of discover cities and 4 came along with the forced move.
 

CrazyWizard

Summoner
I think you are mixing up 2 different things done by 2 different algorithms.

1: Cleaning algorithm: It deletes inactive accounts from the map (or alternatively puts them in storage so they can be reactivated/respawned when they return to active, I am not sure on the current state of this storage option, it has been proclaimed a longtime ago, but I am doubtful it actually is working right now). An inactive town will not be moved ever. Either it stays where it is (depending on the exact conditions of inactivity used by the algorithm) or they will be completely removed from the map, but they will not be moved to a different location.
Another thing I do not know is how big the radius of operation is, I do not believe it currently operates on the entire map, but I think it starts operating in the center, works outwards from there and then stops working at some point. Which would mean inactive towns far from the center would not get deleted, but will simply stay where they are in a wastland of gold mines and inactive towns. This may be a temporary thing until the storage option is put into place. There is even a tiny chance that until the storage is put into place inactive towns could be moved to the edge, so as to not lose their information, but I don´t think that is the case.


2: Moving algorithm: It takes an active town from the edge and moves it closer to the center IF a suitable spot is available. 3 Conditions here: 1. Activity, 2. distance from center, 3. Available spot closer to the center. So when a town is checked by the moving algorithm it will either stay where it is (if 1 or more of the 3 conditions is not met) or it will be moved closer to the center.

The 2 algorithms are completely separate, although they could of course be run one after the other. And also the moving algorithm depends on having empty space in the center, so there is a need for both.

So if we are looking at your example the most important question that determines the outcome of what happens to them (and you) is: Where are you located? Center or edge?
The town inactive for a year should most certainly be classified as inactive, so if you are in the center it should be removed, if you are far away it should be ignored.
The towns inactive for a month, might be classified as inactive or active depending on the conditions used. if inactive, then same as above.
If they are classified as active, the same will happen to them as will (or has) happen(ed) to you. If you are in the center, nothing will happen, if you are far away you will be moved closer to the center.
The cleaning algoritm has been fixed. which prompted to this much bigger move.
According to a CM from another server a bug in this algoritm made it so that players beyond chapter 4 where not (re)moved or put into storage.
When that bug was fixed. an enourmous amount of accounts got cleaned up.(6 year of backlog) and this led to the current much bigger movements.

Dont be suprised if 30-60% of all accounts in existence got cleaned up or have been put into storage.
A lot of people stopped in the past 6 years
 

Gargon667

Immortal
The cleaning algoritm has been fixed. which prompted to this much bigger move.
According to a CM from another server a bug in this algoritm made it so that players beyond chapter 4 where not (re)moved or put into storage.
When that bug was fixed. an enourmous amount of accounts got cleaned up.(6 year of backlog) and this led to the current much bigger movements.

Dont be suprised if 30-60% of all accounts in existence got cleaned up or have been put into storage.
A lot of people stopped in the past 6 years

Do you know what the current deal is with who is deleted vs. who is put into storage?

Maybe I have to go back and check again, but last time I looked the outskirts were still full of inactive cities, that were simply left behind in the big move.
 

CrazyWizard

Summoner
Do you know what the current deal is with who is deleted vs. who is put into storage?

Maybe I have to go back and check again, but last time I looked the outskirts were still full of inactive cities, that were simply left behind in the big move.
No that wasn't communicated. just that the bug concerned all accounts above chapter 4.
But we can see trough the extreme movements that a lot of accounts got either removed or put in storage.

The problem is that I am not sure of those stored accounts are still visible on the rankings. a US post suggests that stored players are still visible but when you go to the world map you end up at your own city

On my live server I see about that the ranking dropped from 33.000 to 22.000. and the last time I checked was a year ago or so.
So we lost at least 1/3rd of the accounts.
 

Gargon667

Immortal
The problem is that I am not sure of those stored accounts are still visible on the rankings. a US post suggests that stored players are still visible but when you go to the world map you end up at your own city

That is actually a smart solution. It is necessary to remove them from the map, but why not keep their scores on the scoreboard? That doesn´t hurt anyone...
 
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