Question Wonder society spreadsheet

[lottie hobbie]

I have just taken over the wonder society for our FS, is there a guide on how to work the spreadsheet as I have never used one this complicated before.

Any help appreciated.

 

[Julian]

I think this link explains it:
https://elvengems.com/ancient-wonders/wonder-society/
Looks complicated to me. We use KP chains in my fellowship.

 

[CrazyWizard]

I have just taken over the wonder society for our FS, is there a guide on how to work the spreadsheet as I have never used one this complicated before.

Any help appreciated.

Ignore the spreadsheet it's pointless work, use netzero instead.
Same thing, no work.

The player fills it's own wonder untill only the chests are left and then announces his wonder in either the chat or a dedicated post in the mailbox.

My Dragon Abey 75/55/40/30/20/10/5/5 (nz)

Your fellow members will pick the chest for NetZero (read no profit nor loss) reward. you get exactly the amount you deserve for each wonder. no messy administration required.

 

[CrazyWizard]

I think this link explains it:
https://elvengems.com/ancient-wonders/wonder-society/
Looks complicated to me. We use KP chains in my fellowship.

KP chains are awesome because it's simplicity, anything complicated is by default a bad system.

NetZero is as simple as a KP chain, but achives the same result as wonder society.
It's slowly adopted at more and more locations because it's more fair, and to some extend even easier than KP chains. and the best thing is that both KP chains and Netzero can cooexist in a fellowship making it's transition much smoother.

 

[kurgkurg]

I like WS and never want to use anything less convenient anymore. I use an automated version of spreadsheet, not much work, and computer doesn't do mistakes. Facebook group "Wonder Society Automated System Group" can help and there are all descriptions, files, and documentation for that.

 

[CrazyWizard]

I like WS and never want to use anything less convenient anymore. I use an automated version of spreadsheet, not much work, and computer doesn't do mistakes. Facebook group "Wonder Society Automated System Group" can help and there are all descriptions, files, and documentation for that.

Why go trough all that hassle if you do not need to?
Why setup an automated external out of the game system if you do not need to?

NetZero == Wonder society fairness but than in it's most simple and elegant form. no automation, no external out of the game complication needed. no screwups when a player leaves the fellowship, no setup needed. just plain easy.

Just like in wonder society your free KP are evenly and fairly divided. it just works the other way around. instead of you getting free KP for your contribution, the wonders owner gets free KP for his contribution.

 

[Far Reach]

I agree with @CrazyWizard, and favour Netzero (which is also known by other names). Two small caveats are though - it is highly desirable that the chests are taken in descending order (since this makes the scheme heavily resistant to interlopers) and also it is a good idea for fellows to post that they are about to take a chest before doing so (to prevent two people going for the same chest at the same time).

One disadvantage of KP swap threads is that rewards are often distributed unequally. The Wonder Society addresses this. However, (if I'm understanding it correctly) it doesn't deal with some other issues with KP threads - such as the risk that not all chests will be taken before the wonder is completed, the possibility of outsiders claiming chests profitably, or the likelihood of having your donated kp tied in other peoples wonders for significant periods).

I'm sure that plenty of Fellowships have found ways of using KP threads (and/or the Wonder Society) to mitigate such problems. One way of doing this (optimising subject to certain constraints) leads directly to NetZero, but possibly there are other approaches.

 

[AngeloftheNorth]

Is there a explanation of net zero somewhere? I’m not getting it?

 

[Far Reach]

Is there a explanation of net zero somewhere? I’m not getting it?

You ask your fellows to successively take a chest, by donating exactly the number of kp given as a reward for that chest.

Example: If I have a AW level costing 200 kp and with reward chests of 20kp, 15kp, 10kp, 5kp:

I put in 150kp (which is the total cost of the level minus all of the rewards)
Fellows 1 to 4 put in 20kp, 15kp, 10kp, 5kp

The fellows get their kp back in rewards (perhaps with some runes thrown in)
I get a significant reduction in the cost of my AW.

And of I course I help out my fellows when they are levelling their AWs in the same way.

 

[AngeloftheNorth]

Thanks! I understand now

 

[Gargon667]

KP chains are awesome because it's simplicity, anything complicated is by default a bad system.

I strongly disagree with that, I do a lot of complicated things, because I enjoy doing them In the end the whole game is a big complicated thing and life would be simpler without playing elvenar

 

[DeletedUser501]

I strongly disagree with that, I do a lot of complicated things, because I enjoy doing them In the end the whole game is a big complicated thing and life would be simpler without playing elvenar

Go complicate yourself with Transport phenomena. physics, thermodynamics, differential equations, enginery or other math derivate branches, this is a game to enjoy and have a good time, not to kill your head with calculations or stress.

 

[CrazyWizard]

I strongly disagree with that, I do a lot of complicated things, because I enjoy doing them In the end the whole game is a big complicated thing and life would be simpler without playing elvenar

Off course it's great when a complicated person does complicated things
But when you need something that creates a comminity of normal people, having easy stuff usually works better than complicated stuff

 

[DeletedUser501]

Wonder Society is lame, you never know what you´re adding, why this or that changes, why someone go first (even when you´ve got much more balance than other). I actually like this system only as a secondary swapping form to fill a secondary AW, not as my mine way to fill my AWs.

 

[Gargon667]

Go complicate yourself with Transport phenomena. physics, thermodynamics, differential equations, enginery or other math derivate branches, this is a game to enjoy and have a good time, not to kill your head with calculations or stress.

That is only a problem if calculations are stress for you I am pretty sure I would have ditched the game a long time ago if there was nothing to calculate...

 

[Gargon667]

Off course it's great when a complicated person does complicated things
But when you need something that creates a comminity of normal people, having easy stuff usually works better than complicated stuff

Indeed I wouldn´t force maths on normal people.

Now I am no expert in the AW spreadsheet as I have never actually used that method myself, but from what I understand there is only 1 person that actually deals with the spreadsheet, so the normal people would not have any problem with this at all? They just throw in whatever they feel like throwing in, without having to think much at all, in fact less thinking than any other method?

 

[CrazyWizard]

Not really you need constant input from that person on what and where to do.

The idea is that you get an average of x KP per 100 invested KP, this means you can't dump KP freely, someone has to steer you and your fellows so that everyone gets a proper equal Roi.
That is what the sheet tries to perform, if I have 2000kp per week to spend and my fellows 500 combined, then this is going to need a lot steering to make the RoI happen, I cant just throw 90% of the KP in each wonder and the rest the other 10% because then I would not get my proper Roi.
At similar I need to have a certain KP per return weight in wonders to make the Roi happen.
So closing my eyes and blindy throw KP in wonders does not work. thats why the sheet exists, it exist to manage those difficulties. because if it was easy you would not need to manage it. and you need a maintainer that constantly updates the players with what to do next, you are not self driving.

If I throw 4 wonders full with this 2000 points except for the chests in them, and those are filled by my fellows by just sending a single message.
and another person has 50 points a week and takes 4 weeks to do it, both get there fair share with no effort without asking someone else who maintains all what to do next? I do not depend on some maintainer, I just need to focus on me, myself and I only.

Or since many people are paranoia to check up what someone elkse did and if it's fair. maybe you do have experience with swap threads and how sometimes they can create some drama if someone makes a mistake.
It's simpel are my chest filled? yes, cool done, level up when worker is ready.

Nothing is easier than that.
I havent seen any system thats more fair or easier than NetZero.

 

[EdwardTrunk]

Merely a personal opinion but I find the Wonder Society method hideously over-engineered and have no intention of ever using it.

 

[kurgkurg]

Now I am no expert in the AW spreadsheet as I have never actually used that method myself, but from what I understand there is only 1 person that actually deals with the spreadsheet, so the normal people would not have any problem with this at all? They just throw in whatever they feel like throwing in, without having to think much at all, in fact less thinking than any other method?

yes there is one or more persons, who run macros, it takes 5 min to record all fs donations and give new targets and all this is pure math, nothing suspicious and all can see, what is done and why

 

[kurgkurg]

i like it because it is very convenient to use, you don't need to count and split your kp, you donate less or more when you want and how much you want, you don't need to send messages and worry
only need to mark your next favorite Aw with heart and if you donate itself to other targets, then also your Aw will be fulfilled soon quite fast

even though I run the system myself, it's much more convenient for me than the swaps and the 0-sum also needs a lot more monitoring and computing