• Good day, Stranger! — Are you new to our forums?

    Have I seen you here before? To participate in or to create forum discussions, you will need your own forum account. Register your account here!

Why is fighting worse than when I first started?

Lady Croft

Adventurer
Ok, first, I have autism and can get quite hot under the collar when I don't understand something, so I may come across very angry, and while I am frustrated and confused, I don't mean to be aggressive.
Now; I am fed up with losing so many troops and goods. In the last tourney and Spire attempts I had 30+ squads after ignoring both for a while to build up some stocks; now I am back down to such ridiculously low numbers that I can't do any more - I have nothing left to send in. The bartering is too expensive... I'm either robbed of all my crystal, mana or supplies. On all 3 cities I struggle to hang onto any crystal & I'm always trading for it. At Halflings, I thought I'd be faring better, but I'm at the point now where I think I'll sell all my barracks, armouries and AWs that supposedly support troops. (Seems they support the enemy, not me.) I put down buffs when I have them, but you need 10 of each for any impact (and a huge space in your city), and, since I can't get to the Dwarven Armourer chest any more, I have none of those.
Or maybe I should simply stop playing, I don't know. I used to see The Frog Prince last year, I think I've encountered him perhaps twice this year and I've just had 3 attempts at round 13 in the tourney only to lose every time with 3 star mages and 3 star LM against 4 LR & 1 HM (3 star), then just LM against them and I still lost. I threw in 5 LR and lost a third time. I tried other troop types only to lose all those as well. So what do I put in against 4 LR and 1 HM?? And losing at round 13? Come on... I don't have the gold to barter at the mo. I used to get almost to 20 before having to barter ...
Seems things are getting worse not better... why am I going backwards instead of forwards? I don't get as far as I did when I first started playing... Does it get better, or should I forget Spire and tourney, and just build and trade? I don't understand how it's worse. I really thought I'd be getting higher in the Spire by now, not struggling to get past the Treant, and managing to go more than 2 rounds (days) in the tourney before throwing in the towel.
What to do? Sitting on the fence ... so frustrated... and slowly tipping towards quitting before I waste more diamonds on this game.
 
Last edited:

DunkelSaturn

Enchanter
Seems things are getting worse not better... why am I going backwards instead of forwards? I don't get as far as I did when I first started playing... Does it get better, or should I forget Spire and tourney, and just build and trade? I don't understand how it's worse. I really thought I'd be getting higher in the Spire by now, not struggling to get past the Treant, and managing to go more than 2 rounds (days) in the tourney before throwing in the towel.
What to do? Sitting on the fence ... so frustrated... and slowly tipping towards quitting before I waste more diamonds on this game.
- Yes, it is a game that generates lot but lot of frustration (beginning with lack of space, not having enough goods of a certain type, etc).

-Yes, spire turned to be a lot harder lately, some months ago I just passed it real quick, in auto-fight I used to finish it in less than an hour, now I have to manually fight again, and spend much more of resources and time. Looks like devs have made some "adjustments" so players lose even more in the spire. (I don´t think they know this is a game to enjoy, not to suffer ??).

- Yes, the game gets harder (tournament and Spire) as long as you advance in the research tree, in your AWs levels and in your numbers of expansions, you´ll face this harder and harder, the only advice I could tell you is: Focus only in develop AWs that help you in Tournament and combat, try to place the less expansions as you can, and don´t pass the 15th chapter.

Or maybe I should simply stop playing, I don't know. I used to see The Frog Prince last year, I think I've encountered him perhaps twice this year and I've just had 3 attempts at round 13 in the tourney only to lose every time with 3 star mages and 3 star LM against 4 LR & 1 HM (3 star), then just LM against them and I still lost. I threw in 5 LR and lost a third time. I tried other troop types only to lose all those as well. So what do I put in against 4 LR and 1 HM?? And losing at round 13? Come on... I don't have the gold to barter at the mo. I used to get almost to 20 before having to barter ...
That fight (4LR+1HM), if we don´t count that much terrain, you will win it using only Orc strats, or only golems, or maybe a combination of both if the HM unit you´re facing is an Orc general. If the HM unit you´re facing is a Paladin or a treant you´ve got to use a combination of Orc strats/Golems + 1 or 2 Dryads (if you play this encounter manual, you´ve got to place the dryads in a position where LR units don´t hit them first and with your HR units kill them so the dryads get the HM unit easier.)
 

Hekata

Shaman
If you had only 30 squads after skipping the tournament for two weeks I think your troop production is very low. You need far more troops than that to fight higher than province 13 with this new tournament. If you don't have the brown bear yet you should really try to get one ASP, it makes all the difference. The fire chick is a big help too.
I'd have to check your city to see how's your military set up but the things that make the tournament more costly both in troops and goods are AW levels (maybe you have too many of those for your chapter?) expansions and techs.
I only auto-fight and usually if I loose a battle that by all logic should have been won I suspect bad terrain and go straight to catering (if possible). Although in that particular fight I think 5 HR units were the way to go.
 

Gargon667

Mentor
Yes you are correct! Both tourney and spire get constantly harder. EVERY TIME you build or upgrade an AW, EVERY TIME you activate a research tech and EVERY TIME you place an expansion. So that means constantly for most people. unless you somehow manage to get better at the same rate or faster your scores will decrease...
Especially this week you´re in trouble because we went from the 2 by far easiest tourney weeks (Marble/Steel) to a rather difficult one. The constant Mist Walker presence is a real pain in the behind this week.

In general it sounds like you need both more and better troops than you currently produce.

Research techs can cause long dry stretches in the tech tree when there is nothing helping your fighting ability, but it makes things constantly worse. Most often there are 2 chapters worth of research between each Barrack/Merc Camp upgrade (which really are the most important tech there is, but also the unit upgrades sometimes help). That is the main reason why it is a good idea to take a break right after researching those 2 techs (if you want to take a break from research that is).
i see your biggest town is right now in chapter 11 (the beginning by the looks of it), so you have a barracks upgrade coming soon! The training speed increase will help a lot, even the Merc camp upgrade will help, although for now the troops are not yet prime quality.

The AWs can take care of themselves as long as you ONLY upgrade the ones that help your military.
So in your case, I think the biggest favour you can do yourself is to immediately sell the Maze and build the Dragon Abbey instead, it gives far more mana and also makes your mages stronger. The Maze is an enormous waste of space and gives you close to nothing in return while costing silly amounts of KP to upgrade. The Enars Embassy is even worse than that. So there you directly have tons of new space! The BTG is a nice AW, but it doesn´t sound like you use the Wholesaler much, which is its only real use until you reach chapter 15+, so before you quit playing the game, just delete the thing and make your tourneys easier :) Same goes for the EE I always liked it (until the new tourneys started, then i deleted mine). So you have some potential for both space and easier tourneys (20 AW levels less) right there. Instead keep upgrading FA, DA, Needles, Shrooms and MM.
Are your barracks producing 24/7, with lvl 16 Needles (good work there!), but only 4 armories and lvl 2 Shrooms, your training queue must be rather short, and it will get much shorter after the barracks upgrade! If your barracks stop producing troops during the night, you need to either build another armory (or 2) or upgrade your Shrooms (quite a bit) or better both :)

Oh and about that 1 fight, don´t worry about it, probably was just bad geography. It happens, those are the ones you want to cater. 5 LR should have been a good choice (especially with ELR), if you lost, most likely you had an obstacle in front of your LR while the enemy had free range to go and attack you first. The only thing I can think of that might work there is Frogs, but yours (if you have them at all from the witch hut and brown bear?) would be 1 star, so not especially great against LR.

Also with what your tourney scores are you could really consider playing in a bit more ambitious FS, 10 chest minimum and silver medal should be something you can do. Try and finish the second level in the spire every week, the rewards from that will help you a lot to stabilize (use the time boosts in your barracks!) and you really want to get another MWS or 2, those normal ones are just the most horrible waste of space imaginable... craft time boosts and supply instants btw when there are no 5day boosters :)

Hope at least some of this helps :)
 

sgjennings

Alchemist
I'll keep it short.
Inno have employed a complete Eejit. Someone who thought progression in a game should be punished.......Eejit!

Just my personal opinion. :)

oh it's so nice to be able to post again :)
Blurgh, it irritates me that I can pour so much space / so many points into upgrading the Martial Monastery and Needles of the Tempest, upgrade multiple Armouries, and have multiple buildings that produce different types of troops (plus newly having a Lvl. 10 Fire Phoenix, and using things like the Dwarven Armourer etc. when I can) and yet still find it quite difficult to get far in the Spire. I think the game doesn't reward you sufficiently for upgrading your combat abilities and it's really frustrating.

I don't believe that things like expansions and upgraded AWs should have such a detrimental effect. And I only have one non-combat AW!
 

Gargon667

Mentor
Blurgh, it irritates me that I can pour so much space / so many points into upgrading the Martial Monastery and Needles of the Tempest, upgrade multiple Armouries, and have multiple buildings that produce different types of troops (plus newly having a Lvl. 10 Fire Phoenix, and using things like the Dwarven Armourer etc. when I can) and yet still find it quite difficult to get far in the Spire. I think the game doesn't reward you sufficiently for upgrading your combat abilities and it's really frustrating.

I don't believe that things like expansions and upgraded AWs should have such a detrimental effect. And I only have one non-combat AW!
Well looking at your biggest city you have 11 lvls of non-military AW and a total of 5 lvls military-AWs, if you want to have an easier time with fighting you might wanna flip that ratio upside down ;)

Of course it is basically impossible to compare your town to mine, but generally speaking it certainly insn´t too hard finishing the spire without 5-day-boosters, I do it every other week. Of course I do still feed the firebird and I have my AWs, as well as a bigger percentage of convincing during those weeks.
 

Lady Croft

Adventurer
Thank you sooo much for your help. I've just lost a massive amount of silk in that dreaded Spire, and came away angry and with nothing to show for my wasted goods. Grrr....
I did place an expansion - someone asked -, and I replaced Maze with Abbey 2 days ago... Enar has gone, too... it was the plan to dump them.. I don't even know why I had them. I'd love some magic workshops... when the next 10% off comes round I'll grab 1 or 2.
We're getting good at getting the 10th tourney chest now, so some among us know what we're doing better than me, lol.

I was keeping BTW for the portal production aspect... should I really sell it? I shoved all KP in there to get it as high as it is... I'd like to dump Mtn Halls, but the pop is high on that one...
Right now my focus is KP into MMonstery (lol) ... [that one's deliberate, rock stream]

Troop training goes on for as long as I can keep up with the supplies, which just lately has been not at all. I never have enough supplies suddenly. All I'm doing is training and goods, and battles if anything is left. My building upgrades are done for now, so none are being used there... I paused goods so i could use waste some supplies in the Spire...
I'd love some artefacts so that I could level up my Firenix more, but not seen one in the last 2 Spire cycles... well 'seen' them, but the Spire doesn't want me to have them.

Again, thank you :) I'll be back soon ...
 
Last edited:

SkyRider99

Enchanter
I've just lost a massive amount of silk in that dreaded Spire
I only use troops and fight the Spire. But I usually can't enter the High Halls without some serious troop boosts, like Dwarven Armorer, etc. And for some reason I don't see many boosts lately.

Magic workshops help a lot with supplies. Remember that you'll still need population to build them.

Mountain Halls helps with population and goods production. One of my favourites. Please yourself though what you do with yours.
 

Lady Croft

Adventurer
Thanks, SkyRider..
I do like the Mountain Halls.. should I keep it at the level it's at for now to help with the level penalty for battles? AS I increase fighting AWs, surely I can risk a couple of no-fighting levels in that and Prosperity Towers....

A year ago, I imagined myself good at fighting by this time, and regularly getting high or completing the Spire... fool; lol. It left me with 47 silk. :(
I can cope with 1 wave, but 2? Forget it. And the line-ups are deliberately biased for us to lose. I don't mind a challenge, but consistently failing has a negative mental affect on some of us, even if it is 'just a game' which (not here) some players like to remind others about.

I wanted to place that last corner expansion to even out the city for now, then I'll save some. I like to place 2 at once when I get them, anyway.

Just a thought... (not something I actually plan on doing) what if you cleared your city and started all the buildings from lv 1 again? The goods and supplies? Obviously you can't undo expansions and squad size upgrades.... I'm sure people have done it.

Anyway, back to the game...
 

CrazyWizard

Shaman
Ok, first, I have autism and can get quite hot under the collar when I don't understand something, so I may come across very angry, and while I am frustrated and confused, I don't mean to be aggressive.
Now; I am fed up with losing so many troops and goods. In the last tourney and Spire attempts I had 30+ squads after ignoring both for a while to build up some stocks; now I am back down to such ridiculously low numbers that I can't do any more - I have nothing left to send in. The bartering is too expensive... I'm either robbed of all my crystal, mana or supplies. On all 3 cities I struggle to hang onto any crystal & I'm always trading for it. At Halflings, I thought I'd be faring better, but I'm at the point now where I think I'll sell all my barracks, armouries and AWs that supposedly support troops. (Seems they support the enemy, not me.) I put down buffs when I have them, but you need 10 of each for any impact (and a huge space in your city), and, since I can't get to the Dwarven Armourer chest any more, I have none of those.
Or maybe I should simply stop playing, I don't know. I used to see The Frog Prince last year, I think I've encountered him perhaps twice this year and I've just had 3 attempts at round 13 in the tourney only to lose every time with 3 star mages and 3 star LM against 4 LR & 1 HM (3 star), then just LM against them and I still lost. I threw in 5 LR and lost a third time. I tried other troop types only to lose all those as well. So what do I put in against 4 LR and 1 HM?? And losing at round 13? Come on... I don't have the gold to barter at the mo. I used to get almost to 20 before having to barter ...
Seems things are getting worse not better... why am I going backwards instead of forwards? I don't get as far as I did when I first started playing... Does it get better, or should I forget Spire and tourney, and just build and trade? I don't understand how it's worse. I really thought I'd be getting higher in the Spire by now, not struggling to get past the Treant, and managing to go more than 2 rounds (days) in the tourney before throwing in the towel.
What to do? Sitting on the fence ... so frustrated... and slowly tipping towards quitting before I waste more diamonds on this game.
The units in the beginning are very weak and kinda unable to play either tourney or spire.
But when you first start the game you can field only 1 unit and only have a few tourney provinces.

some units have a weight of 2-3 or even 6 (treant, paladin for example)
Because the minimum amount of units you can field is 1, and you put a weight 6 unit into it. you are actually able to field a unit 6 times as strong as you should be able to field.

It is somewhat similar in the tournaments,
The very first fight your enemy is the weakest variant and only opposes with 12.5% your force.

This rises quickly and you start finding 2* and 3* opponents as your enemies making it very difficult to win.
You can still as easily win the first battle, the those subsequent provinces become more difficult.

the spire is just a unit hog.

The game has various stages where strategy X works best.
As an absolute beginner, negotiations work best, your units are simply to weak to do anything. when you advance trough the game negotiations become more and more difficult is the expenses rises more quickly then your production at some point, but at this point your units become less and less useless. so eventually it will be a mix of fighting and negotiations.
Once your units reach there full potential, it's fighting all the way, and negotiations become near impossible.
 

Almondum

Adventurer
Well, I understand what you feel with the Spire and I adapted a simple and a satisfactory solution for myself.

Every week, I clear the first tier of the Spire and never go further, ever. The convincing is simple and the non-boss fights only have 1 stage.
The rewards are nice: boosters, sometimes diamonds, spells and sometimes I get blue/golden chests. Once, I even got a Gennie from a chest.

Sure some people will tell you: "Oh, you should try other levels". In my humble opinion the 1st Spire tier (until the mushroom-tree) has the best ratio of time-resource investment/rewards.

I wish you luck in the Spire and lots of fun!
Almond.

P.S. I reached this conclusion because in my mind the most important things to progress in the game are: the tournaments and the events (well, some of the events).