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Why do I plan to stop the game

Toursy

Spellcaster
Hello everyone,

I'm more and more thinking about leaving the game, I think it could be good for the GD to get some feedbacks about what can push a player to leave the game, after playing it for around two years.

I'm now chapter XVI, but the problem really show up at chapter XV, the new idea to slow down the players to get to next chapter is to ask them so many things that they won't feel progressing at all anymore...

First thing first, I like to follow the story but the (bad) concept of putting the buildings of guests races in our city is just wrong... there is no space, and more you go on bigger are the building... for so many chapters I couldn't follow the quests and just use instant because it doesn't make sense, I'll take the example of Chap XVI now, they're asking me to add 5 of their beer festival... oh really... so should I crush down half of my city, lose strength just so I can continue to follow the story? So most of the time I have to stop quite early in the story, and then when I jump to another chapter I try to read the quest and jump the ones that were impossible to do... Is that how the game is supposed to be played? I feel it frustrating and not fun.
The guests races buildings should be built outside of the city, not inside! So we can fully play with it and the quests. Or arrange the size of the buildings if you really need them inside, because now it just doesn't make sense anymore...

Event : being stuck in a Chapter for so long (months) make event rewards ridiculous... Before, when chapters weren't that long, we could change the buildings from the previous event for the ones of the next events to save some RR, it was a way to update them... but now you don't even need to do so because you'll spend many event being stuck in the same chapter... which mean, no need to try to hard for the event (and I'm not even talking about the previous event were it was not even possible to finish the main building...). Event were, before, an existing activity that I was looking for and that breaks the routine. Not anymore. I couldn't care less about them. At least you added some stories in it.

Rewards : Let's start with FA : I feel the team completely lost about this feature, they don't know how to make it interesting at all... they have to "steal" previous event artifact, making players unaible to finish previous event building, so they have to participate in it. I think it's quite a lot of FA that me and my fellowship are just willing to do it the easy way... with no pressure, when you get artifact you put down or else... meh what do we have to lose?

Spire : bringing artifacts were not a bad idea, but it's never possible to get a building complete.... you can't have more than one kind of building (for me for example I have golem + moon bear so I get 6 weeks without interest in Spire... great idea! And getting frustated to get some useless artifacts.). So once again, I don't see anything pushing me to use so much ressources to get on the top... especially because that would slow me down for getting on in the chapter which is already super slow...
If nothing is done about artifact I don't what to say...

Tournament : It's the only activity which can still have some interesting rewards, but RR are not that interesting anymore, since you get stuck so long in a chapter that you get to bring all your building into your chapter without so much hurry... and Kp became a big factor but mostly to upgrade AW. There is not much need to go over 10 chests, I think the rewards from chest 10 are not big. Just need to get your 10 provinces done everytime and that's it. Nothing very fun either, nothing making you feel you're in competition. Nothing to push you to overdo it, once again (but not only) because you need to save ressources to move on in the chapter...

MA recipes : Some rare buildings are craftable in their, I remember when I started to play, I craft one of these expecting it would be possible to bring them level 10... then I got a fellowship and told me it's pretty impossible to get the artifacts anymore, unless there is a special event... once in a year maybe and for few weeks... At that time it was not even possible to put it back to inventory... I really don't get the purpose of proposing these building you we can't craft the artifacts...

To finish : the game become just super repetitive, this kind of game is I know, but letting people stuck for so long is erasing all the others things that could make you accept it. Players need to feel progression and feel they get benefits/rewards in what they are doing, but I don't see anything of this anymore.


What do you guys think?
 
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SkyRider99

Necromancer
Have you solved all your World Map provinces and taken the city expansions?
I am in Ch XIX; it is very, very slow; but there are other fun things to do like helping fellowship members.
Our FS always takes ten chests, or more. It's entertaining to see who will score the most points each week. The blueprints we win are good for upgrading magic buildings, and for some crafting items.
Maybe you could consider a change of fellowship?
I do miss the feeling of progression though. And the Ch XIX guest race is ludicrous! The production rates are abysmal.
My rewards lately have been in helping others in my FS to grow and for our group to have a bit of fun in these troubling RL times.
 

Toursy

Spellcaster
No, now I need around 20 provinces to get an expansion, it's pretty slow and even if they improved the system for provinces, it's still very boring to do all them quickly because too slow.

Help fellowship members is nice yes, but it's not enough to make a fun game.
My fellowship is pretty active, we get gold at Spire every week, get more than ten chests in tournament and we get all the reward for FA everytime... but as I explained, the reward are not good enough to give a sense of purpose, it's just a repetition, you get first at tournament and then what? Can't go on on researches for one week too because tournament took all your ressources? When the Chapter is already super slow... What will you get extra if you're first or not? Nothing much, maybe one RR and one KP instant extra for a lot of sacrifices...
 
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It seems that you biggest problem is space for guest race buildings, most of the other things seem to be the result of this.
There’s number of ways to get more space:
- remove replaceable event buildings, there’s enough events to get same benefit ones later
- minimize AWs, max them first before you add new ones
- spend all you diamonds on premium expansions, I’d wait for discount days
- store all your residences, it’s ok to go into negative population once you have everything upgraded
- optimize your layout, you can surprisingly save quite a bit of space just here
 

Toursy

Spellcaster
Thanks for you reply, it's just it feels like getting less powerful doing so, it takes so much space that you don't feel like your city is getting stronger removing buildings that gives you benefits while the guest buildings are just letting you go on in the story... it doesn't feel right, on the progression scale at least.
 
Thanks for you reply, it's just it feels like getting less powerful doing so, it takes so much space that you don't feel like your city is getting stronger removing buildings that gives you benefits while the guest buildings are just letting you go on in the story... it doesn't feel right, on the progression scale at least.

You can have a look at the progress of my main city on elvenstats and see what you think. Of course, you don't have to do it all, it's up to you to pick what works for you and what doesn't.
 

SkyRider99

Necromancer
Can't go on on researches for one week....
There is an old saying: "Look on the bright side."

I have been locked out of research for more than one month sometimes. The extra KPs saved have gone to AWs instead.

Elvenar is not all about progression. There are slow parts and faster parts. Patience, investigation, and planning are actually fun aspects of the game.

From what you write @Toursy it seems you want/need to find another game. One that is more suited to your expectations. Good luck and best wishes with your search. :)
 

Laurelin

Enchanter
I often wonder whether some of Elvenar's players are familiar with what the gaming industry actually considers to be a RTS (real-time strategy) city-building/simulation game. Until 2013, when Electronic Arts effectively destroyed their own franchise (together with Maxis, the EA-bought company which created it) with the truly dreadful fifth iteration in the series, the industry standard to which all other city-building simulators were (and sometimes still are) compared was/is the iconic Sim City series. After 2013, many consider the new standard to be Paradox's Cities: Skylines.

Both of these games are originally PC games and still generally regarded as such, being far too complicated (in full form) for any mobile device.

Truth is that it is actually quite difficult to regard Elvenar as a city-building simulator at all (whatever Inno might call it...), since it far more closely resembles a social viral game - rather like Farmville, for example, but with building-themed instead of crop field-themed graphics, and with different 'virtual goods' being generated automatically (Coins, Mana, Seeds etc.) and/or manually by the player (Supplies, Goods, etc.). RTS games (being largely single-player) do not feature any social elements or in-game groups, whereas membership of an in-game group is one of the founding concepts on which social viral games rely, and this is why FS membership is seen by most Elvenar players (and promoted by Inno) as being more or less necessary for full enjoyment of (and access to all features of) the game, as well as offering advantages such as fee-free Trades, Perks, FS shared rewards, and so on.

Unlike most RTS city simulators, social viral games also typically feature several added competitive elements (whether or not the base game is inherently competitive or co-operative), which in Elvenar are, of course, such add-ons as Tournaments, the Spire, and FAs. Routine weekly/monthly Events are another signature element of social viral games, whereas RTS games rarely feature similar additions, and those that do never use them to award gameplay-altering prizes. Another difference is the usual lack of microtransactions/premium currency in RTS city simulators vs the near-omnipresence of this funding model in social viral games. I could go on, but this post is already heading towards essay-length, so I won't.

The reason why @Toursy and others who have played Elvenar for a while notice that it begins slowly and only becomes slower as the game progresses is because this is the way almost all Free-to-Play social viral games are constructed, with play being slowed via many intentionally placed time-gates and artificially generated shortages of X or Y commodity or resource at various stages of the game. These shortages and slow-downs are all carefully balanced and often altered in relation to each other, not least to prevent players from developing long-term (non-paid-for) strategies to evade them.

There are many significant differences between RTS city (or indeed other types of) simulation games and social viral games, but the most relevant differences for the purposes of this particular thread would probably be:
1. RTS games are very rarely multi-player games, whereas social viral games always are (the clue's in the name!);
2. RTS games have no constraints upon game speed, whereas social viral games are founded upon the concept of artifical and increasing time-gates;
3. Closely related to point 2, there is no significant time delay when it comes to building/upgrading/altering anything in a RTS game - one makes changes to one's city zones/buildings, its economy, its transport network, and/or any of the other city sub-systems, then speeds up time (or not - at the player's option) at various rates, in order to see the results of those changes... and so on, and so forth, for as long as one can stay awake.

... Anyway. It often seems to me, perhaps, that at least some of the players who become jaded with Elvenar may have started the game expecting it to be a RTS city simulator rather than what it was always designed to be - a time-and-resource-gated social viral game with a city-building visual interface - and that this may be why so many players either object to, or defend, the intentionally slow and lengthy experience of playing the game.
 

Toursy

Spellcaster
Thanks all of you for your answers, I actually play FOE (which also is an Inno game) for longer than Elvenar and I still like it. I actually don't need to go on with the story and I'm not trying there to get to the last era quickly because actually there are others ways to progress (get points) in the game.

There is a system like MA, we can even 'bet' on some products being in competition with other players to get it, in there you can "craft" the buildings AND the artifacts after the building have been out for some time (after two years more or less). You can have more than one major building (from events) in your city. This makes the feature of "MA" very fun to play, because you have a collector aspect, collecting the artifacts and getting your building that you can add up into your city.
In Elvenar this is impossible, you can craft buildings but don't get the artifacts to level them up... = no purpose.

The reward system is better in FOE comparing to Elvenar, because they made some "AW" (all the names are different but concepts are the same) to add up some extra rewards in the activities that makes it really interesting and gives you surprises. It's never a waste of time to do it.

In FOE you can rearrange your city easily.

Cultures (which would be guest races in Elvenar) are not to be build in the city but outside, which mean you can fully enjoy the gameplay for cultures without feeling frustrated because you have to remove a lot of buildings...useful ones for "useless" one or you have to skip this part of the gameplay and just use instant portals.

I think I'm familiar enough with what kind of game is Elvenar since I played to FOE (Forge of Empire) and they totally got the same kind of concepts. The real problem is that GD in Elvenar didn't succeed to give a real purpose to the features by rewardind players enough (it could be something difficult to reach but that give a sense of purpose). In each Chapter it's mandatory to rearrange the city without any feature to do it easily (which kills one part of the gameplay), they don't give enough value in upgrading AW in the progression (giving more points to allow people that don't want to move to the next Chapter to still be able to progress with their points), making the chapter longer is not a problem but then all the activities and events rewards loose a lot of value (because all based on making you go to the next chapter faster but then you get stuck with the ressources).... MA is not much fun because there is nothing to collect since artifacts are super expensive and limited to very few buildings... it's all about the instants....

I tried Elvenar for the fantasy part that I found attractive, when it gets too slow then you need to give other ways for the players to have fun and still feel they can progress in others ways. I don't see it here.
 

Killiak

Artisan
Honestly, it started when Inno decided to aim the game more towards Mobile.
Income for companies that run mobile games is mostly derived from the people in the early stages of the game, roughly the first month to 6 months of their account life. So they need to grow fast, and only hit a few hurdles that can be overcome with diamonds. Later on, the people who actually managed to stick around need to be presented with more slowness, and growing hurdles. Ater all, they are already invested, and are more likely to keep spending.

The above is a simplification of course, it is more nuanced and complicated than that. That said, plenty of studies have been done to mobile games and consumer behaviour in them. I personally believe you can take the moment this game also became a mobile game, and then explain each and every change with that in mind.
 
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