• Good day, Stranger! — Are you new to our forums?

    Have I seen you here before? To participate in or to create forum discussions, you will need your own forum account. Register your account here!

What is the point of Squad Size upgrades these days ?

  • Thread starter Deleted member 10929
  • Start date

Deleted member 10929

Guest
Hello all

Just wondering how the Squad Size upgrades works these days.

They of curse adds pain to tournament because of the research adds more troops. But how does it affect enemy Squad Size in tournament, if at all ?

My thinking is that if my Squad Size gets bigger, then the enemy's gets bigger too. So all in all, will i t help or is it just same-same ?
 

DunkelSaturn

Enchanter
Hello all

Just wondering how the Squad Size upgrades works these days.

They of curse adds pain to tournament because of the research adds more troops. But how does it affect enemy Squad Size in tournament, if at all ?
- The more Squad Size Upgrades you´ve got, the more units SSR ( Shrine of the Shrewdy Shrooms), Pyramid, Temple of Toads, Dwarven Bulwark, Flying Academy would produce, the most units you get for free, the better for tournament performance.

- The more Squad Size Upgrades you´ve got, the better for world map encounters and negotiations ( they get cheaper).

My thinking is that if my Squad Size gets bigger, then the enemy's gets bigger too. So all in all, will i t help or is it just same-same ?
They ( SS upgrades) don´t affect ( only the ones that are linked to the chain of forced researches in the research tree) your and enemy Squad Size in tournament only, they only affect World map SS and AWs free unit production.
 

Gargon667

Mentor
Hello all

Just wondering how the Squad Size upgrades works these days.

They of curse adds pain to tournament because of the research adds more troops. But how does it affect enemy Squad Size in tournament, if at all ?

My thinking is that if my Squad Size gets bigger, then the enemy's gets bigger too. So all in all, will i t help or is it just same-same ?
haven´t we discussed this already 15 times?

short version: No and No

1. Optional research techs do not add anything to anything.

2. SS add no pain to tournaments, because they add absolutely nothing to tournaments, because the SS does not show up anywhere in the tourney calculation formula. SS has NOTHING to do with either tourneys or spire and ONLY affects map provinces.

And with NOTHING I mean NOTHING! You research an optional SS upgrade and your SS in the tourney does NOT change whatsoever, nor does the SS of your enemy.

Obligatory SS upgrade have the same effect as every other obligatory tech in the research tree: It makes tourneys more costly.
 

Gargon667

Mentor
- The more Squad Size Upgrades you´ve got, the better for world map encounters and negotiations ( they get cheaper).
Pretty sure that (the second part) is NOT true: Negotiation costs depend on enemy numbers, enemy numbers do NOT depend on your own SS. Therefore negotiating does not get cheaper (or more expensive) with SS.
Only fights get easier, because you have more troops facing the same number of enemies.
 

DunkelSaturn

Enchanter
Pretty sure that (the second part) is NOT true: Negotiation costs depend on enemy numbers, enemy numbers do NOT depend on your own SS. Therefore negotiating does not get cheaper (or more expensive) with SS.
Only fights get easier, because you have more troops facing the same number of enemies.
I´m also not sure about it, I really don´t care about negotiations, I only care about fights, and when negotiating an encounter I never care of how much it cost me. But Im saying the above cause I´ve saw that explanation from other players about the SS effects in price of the negotiations in the world map.
 

DunkelSaturn

Enchanter
But, since having, a province that before of 2 SS upgrades was an easy one, and after those 2 SS turned to be a very easy one, I´m pretty sure it got easier not only in enemy difficulty but also cheaper in every negotiation of that province, quiet right right?
 

Gargon667

Mentor
But, since having, a province that before of 2 SS upgrades was an easy one, and after those 2 SS turned to be a very easy one, I´m pretty sure it got easier not only in enemy difficulty but also cheaper in every negotiation of that province, quiet right right?
nope: easier in relative SS, not cheaper in negotiating ...
 

Wibbly Woo

Spellcaster
- The more Squad Size Upgrades you´ve got, the more units SSR ( Shrine of the Shrewdy Shrooms), Pyramid, Temple of Toads, Dwarven Bulwark, Flying Academy would produce, the most units you get for free, the better for tournament performance.

- The more Squad Size Upgrades you´ve got, the better for world map encounters and negotiations ( they get cheaper).



They ( SS upgrades) don´t affect ( only the ones that are linked to the chain of forced researches in the research tree) your and enemy Squad Size in tournament only, they only affect World map SS and AWs free unit production.
You missed squad size increases the number of troops gained troop instants.
 

Deleted member 10929

Guest
1. Optional research techs do not add anything to anything.

2. SS add no pain to tournaments, because they add absolutely nothing to tournaments, because the SS does not show up anywhere in the tourney calculation formula. SS has NOTHING to do with either tourneys or spire and ONLY affects map provinces.

And with NOTHING I mean NOTHING! You research an optional SS upgrade and your SS in the tourney does NOT change whatsoever, nor does the SS of your enemy.

Obligatory SS upgrade have the same effect as every other obligatory tech in the research tree: It makes tourneys more costly.
So i'm partly right, it does add pain in the tournament, as long as it is mandatory SS research ;)

And then to sum it up; Optional SS research is completely useless, because it has no effect on SS' in tournament.
 

Giraffi

Conjurer
So i'm partly right, it does add pain in the tournament, as long as it is mandatory SS research ;)

And then to sum it up; Optional SS research is completely useless, because it has no effect on SS' in tournament.
I wont use the word ’useless’. I think irrelevant may describe it better.
 

Pauly7

Magus
Somebody can put facts about this? SS upgrades only improve power of your army for world map encounters and NOT make negotiations cheaper.

I need some light about it.
As far as I know province negotiating costs are relative to the number of provinces you've already scouted, but they're also all reduced by completing Advanced Scouts techs.
 

FieryArien

Illusionist
Somebody can put facts about this? SS upgrades only improve power of your army for world map encounters and NOT make negotiations cheaper.

I need some light about it.
When you scout a province, the enemy troops number and the negotiation cost are fixed. There is no way to change those values after you send the scout. Not even Advanced Scouts technology will do that, because it only affects the not-yet-scouted provinces.

You can increase the number of your troops by researching squad size upgrade and it makes the fight easier. It won’t have any effect on negotiation cost, though.
 

Gargon667

Mentor
So i'm partly right, it does add pain in the tournament, as long as it is mandatory SS research ;)

And then to sum it up; Optional SS research is completely useless, because it has no effect on SS' in tournament.
They are not useless, they simply have nothing whatsoever to do with tourney and spire. They are to some degree useful for troop production and other small things. So they are actually helpful :)
 

Deleted member 10929

Guest
They are not useless, they simply have nothing whatsoever to do with tourney and spire. They are to some degree useful for troop production and other small things. So they are actually helpful :)
They ARE useless regarding tournament, as they have none what so ever effect on it - As you yourself state :cool:

But as you are trying to twist things, let me twist it further for you, as you have started a direction that is not yet fully used ;)

They have EVERYTHING to do with tournament and Spire; Because they affect troop training ;)
 

Gargon667

Mentor
They have EVERYTHING to do with tournament and Spire; Because they affect troop training ;)
Not really, making troops is one thing, killing them is a completely different one.

Also just to not get your hopes up: The contribution they make to the production side is rather small, it is there, but nothing to get excited about. Other effects they have are eve smaller. They have simply become a very boring and unimportant number that everybody constantly asks about because they used to be a big deal up until a year ago. But people keep asking and asking because they cannot understand how such a prominent thing (all the techs and all the talk) can be so utterly unimportant. I have said so many times before, but the number should be removed from the army camp, it confuses people (into believing that this number actually has some importance) and helps exactly nothing. Troops in the camp should be shown in real numbers not in sqauds that never actually show up.
 

Deleted member 10929

Guest
Yes, it's ridiculous to have those number when they in reality don't mean a thing.

They could call it Army Size instead. Then we would see an actual size in fights and not needing to know how to add up because there's a different amount of units in different troop type squads.

Looking back, i stopped doing optional SS-upgrades back in ch5. This adds up to a 50% increase in my own SS, which would then add capacity to my Barracks, Merc and Training Grounds, and i could then upgrade them more and gain speed and in the end produce 50% more troops.

But what's the thing about Armories, level 35. My SS=3066:

Info window says Training Size: 450

Basic training size: 6
Training size bonus: 1035
Shrine Bonus (level 4); 2100

Then the Armory: 2250

Total: 5391

Does this Total-number have any point ? and in regards to the 450 Training Size, which makes no sense at all ?
 

alsael

Conjurer
You forget a parameter:the bigger your training squads,the longer it takes to train,so that is a plus for those players who don't log in every other hour to manage their city,so the military buildings do not remain idle for too long :)
 

Gargon667

Mentor
You forget a parameter:the bigger your training squads,the longer it takes to train,so that is a plus for those players who don't log in every other hour to manage their city,so the military buildings do not remain idle for too long :)
that is true, but has also absolutely nothing to do with squad size. Squad size does NOT increase training size.
 

Gargon667

Mentor
Yes, it's ridiculous to have those number when they in reality don't mean a thing.

They could call it Army Size instead. Then we would see an actual size in fights and not needing to know how to add up because there's a different amount of units in different troop type squads.

Looking back, i stopped doing optional SS-upgrades back in ch5. This adds up to a 50% increase in my own SS, which would then add capacity to my Barracks, Merc and Training Grounds, and i could then upgrade them more and gain speed and in the end produce 50% more troops.

But what's the thing about Armories, level 35. My SS=3066:

Info window says Training Size: 450

Basic training size: 6
Training size bonus: 1035
Shrine Bonus (level 4); 2100

Then the Armory: 2250

Total: 5391

Does this Total-number have any point ? and in regards to the 450 Training Size, which makes no sense at all ?
I have a hard time imagining what is what here, can you post a screenshot? Or multiple screenshots if the info comes from various screens?