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Version 1.97

Deleted User - 1759805

Guest
Anyone who wants to. There was no shortage of people willing to do so.
And anyone who wants to can still do so. The question is, how informed were people taking 16:1 trades, outside of purely humanitarian reasons? I know I have taken a couple of these trades back in a day, because small amount of T3 right now and then was worth even 16x T1 to me at that time. But I'd argue most of the people taking it are doing so because trader star system tells them it is fair. I don't have any issue with savvy players using it to their advantage (happens all the time in the real world when people with an edge profit from mispriced assets), but let's not pretend that such deals are somehow "fair".
 

DeletedUser1874

Guest
And to finish off talking to this echo champers
I SAID MY OPINION
i have the right not to like the update as you have the right to like it
Yes, but you do not have the right to accuse others of "echo-chambering" (these buzzwords, I swear...) when you're factually wrong, nor to draw assumptions based on... what exactly? Your gut feeling?

while the old players complained now or praise it now, they have already used that o advance faser
Because you see, not only such assumptions are entirely baseless, they're false, too. I've never used cross-tier trades to advance faster, nor have I ever needed to, and do not know anyone that did (besides, who would've taken 1:16 trades when everyone was at the same chapter, huh? Have you failed to consider that old players migh've all progressed at the same time through chapters?).
The only scenario in which those cross tiers have a meaning is when boosting/twinking lower ranked people in tourneys. If a city is properly balanced, it has no need for cross-tier trades at all in normal gameplay.
 

John of Enar

Adventurer
You can't compare it to currency conversion because that's not the same thing at all. You can compare it to something being sold at a vastly inflated price. Just because it happened for a long period of time does not make it justifiable.

Many people have (or had) way too high a tier 3 or tier 2 production and they did so purely to turn a profit trading down through the tiers.

The whole point may be moot because people can still trade at the same rates they used to. If you think that's right then continue. The likely effect, though, is that many people will feel like the bubble has burst on their trading system and replace T3 manufacturies for T1. We will then get a much better trading playing field as people will actually be swapping their same tier goods rather than flooding the trader with swathes of unusable trades. I don't see any likely negative outcome to this.

For me the positive is that if I want to post cross tier trades I will be able to do so without overwriting the amounts every time because I have traded at 1:1.5 for a year or two now!
Well, building momentum and maintaining it is important. It is very difficult for new players to gain momentum in this game and the map is loaded with players who started but never went very far. Now, when i see middle tier units that are trading as three stars i want to hop on them but then i look and i see requests for tier three goods that are almost the same amount ... i stop and scratch my head. I know how much the T3 goods cost me and now they are worth nothing. Our trading and many other FS trading have slowed to almost nothing. When you devalue the currency then you create hardships for players. Same in the real world, pure economics. Now i know the game designers say "Oh, you can trade whatever you want to trade ..." Ha ... the perception of value is based on the star ratings - why use them otherwise? Also try to offer an unreasonable trade. The threshold of what the game allows is now less. So saying you can trade whatever you want, we didn't effect that, is not quite honest. The change may have been needed because T3 going for 16 times T1 seems a bit much. However, what is now in effect is way over in the opposite direction. A progressive 2:1 ratio might make more sense where a T3 goes for 4 T1 units. The current trade system 1.5:1 is confusing, hurting trades and game momentum. I myself would prefer a 3:1 in a trading system with 3 tiers. And that works better with the cost of items in the game, makes them more achievable and supports game momentum.
 

DeletedUser3571

Guest
By far most of the people who didn't get anywhere would not have been trading for anything but tier 1 if they even managed to get tier 1.:)
The fact is that yes in terms of coins and supplies its 4:1 but this does not take into account the space each building takes up and the population and culture needed to build it, as well as many other factors which has been taken into account with the new ratio. (i'm sure someone could go deeply into the formula for it)
I have never seen a reason to need cross tiers except to help out new players and even then when i started i never received this help and still thrived so even then its not really necessary. If you stick to only creating your boosted goods and be flexible in how many manufactures of each tier you have as you progress then it easy to live with out cross tier trading.
 

ANIKHTOS

Soothsayer
@ANIKHTOS I have checked out our city and if you don't mind I can give you some possible solutions to your problem.
Your boosted T1 is planks and yet you have 4 steel and a few marble factories. Those non-boosted factories are worthless, they will never give you nearly enough goods. Actually the amount they give is ridiculous compared to your boosted factories. If you don't believe me you have a whole section on Elvenar gems of knowledge explaining why there is no use in keeping non-boosted factories. So sell them and you'll have space, pop and culture for more planks which you can then trade.
Also of all your planks factories only one is at Lv10, upgrade the others. When you sell the steel and marble ones you'll have the pop.
You mention going faster a few times but this is slow game. When I started there were no instants of any kind so it was even slower than now. It's a game of patience and endurance.
Hope this helps :)
well check it now all problems are solved and i jumped up once more
 

Hekata

Artisan
well check it now all problems are solved and i jumped up once more
Lol, well you certainly solved the pop/culture problem but how do you plan to have enough coins with only 4 residences and 0 buildings that produce coins? Those dragons take too much space. I think it's wiser to have a balanced number of residences and hybrid pop/culture event buildings. Anyway feel free to run your city as you want but if you look around you'll see that all of the advanced players have only boosted factories because it's the only sustainable way :)
 

DeletedUser8409

Guest
I don't have many Residences and temporarily had nearly none and have always had plenty of coins.

Neighbour help alone gives more than enough coins for me. Wells and Golden Abyss are much better than Residences too for coins.
 

DeletedUser3571

Guest
Yes in a advanced city that is true but in a chapter 3 city this is not the case.
 

ANIKHTOS

Soothsayer
Lol, well you certainly solved the pop/culture problem but how do you plan to have enough coins with only 4 residences and 0 buildings that produce coins? Those dragons take too much space. I think it's wiser to have a balanced number of residences and hybrid pop/culture event buildings. Anyway feel free to run your city as you want but if you look around you'll see that all of the advanced players have only boosted factories because it's the only sustainable way :)
no problem with coins that is solved
and as i say many times what is best is not the same it depends on where are you in game
later on when event finish i will also have more coin options trying to get wonder for gold
too big? nope per tile i got more population
so raw size means nothing add you do not need road more free space i actually free space from using them
i get 120k from help alone plus some coin rain in event so i am good
i will get soon 1 expansion and i raised my production , this tournament is also boosting my production
so all good
fun is if you do not have houses or workshops culture is not big issue any more
i only kept the houses for events collect that amount of gold
 

Timneh

Artisan
In my opinion the problem for cities that have only a few houses are that later in the game some of the factory and workshop upgrades require hundreds of population i.e human marble factory lvl 24 to lvl 25 requires 653 population for one building, a workshop lvl 30 to lvl 31 requires 356 population per building and the large amounts are not just one off requirements, as you advance in the game all upgrades need lots of population. I do not think using culture/pop buildings can provide enough pop. Another problem can be that when you get to the point in the game where you need mana the best thing to do (in my opinion) is to sell all culture buildings to make room for mana producing buildings as they also give culture, if a city only has culture/pop buildings it might be hard to have enough mana producing buildings because they can not sell off culture buildings without losing population as well.
I had to build more houses for population when i needed to start producing mana because i had too many pop/culture buildings but there were no royal restoration spells back then to upgrade pop/culture buildings so it might be different now.
 

ANIKHTOS

Soothsayer
In my opinion the problem for cities that have only a few houses are that later in the game some of the factory and workshop upgrades require hundreds of population i.e human marble factory lvl 24 to lvl 25 requires 653 population for one building, a workshop lvl 30 to lvl 31 requires 356 population per building and the large amounts are not just one off requirements, as you advance in the game all upgrades need lots of population. I do not think using culture/pop buildings can provide enough pop. Another problem can be that when you get to the point in the game where you need mana the best thing to do (in my opinion) is to sell all culture buildings to make room for mana producing buildings as they also give culture, if a city only has culture/pop buildings it might be hard to have enough mana producing buildings because they can not sell off culture buildings without losing population as well.
I had to build more houses for population when i ne be posde accelarate thingsd to start producing mana because i had too many pop/culture buildings but there were no st royal restoration spells back then to upgrade pop/culture buildings so it might be different now.
well as i said what is best depends on what you are now
this move now help me to accelerate things
if i was with houses i would be in worse position
long time to upgrade lots of resources and more space for them
while it would be possible it would be a way slower and more resource hungry operation

i am playing at now not in future 1 year , i just enter chapter 3 so i could upgrade houses now and not before
you all talk about max potential
this is for me right now
houses will become better chapter 4 or 5 buts thats so far away
and chapter 4 pop/culture will be better so
 

m4rt1n

Adept
The new trade ratio's added are the best introduction in my 3 years here, thank you. Finally after so long fair trading is now across everthing. :)

Thank you to the devs, the complainers like @ANIKHTOS just need to find a fellowship that will help like ours for example with fair trades. :)

@ANIKHTOS you can still make the trades you want, takers of those trades will be there on occasion by accident. Play the game your way and please quit trying to make everyone play the game the same way. We are individuals and all play our own way. :)
 
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DeletedUser3571

Guest
The only other problem i think for a early chapter player with going the pop/cul building way is that you advance through the chapters pretty quickly so they become obsolete and you cant replace them as big events come every 2-3 months so when you advance to chapter 4 in a few weeks/a month then you will be in a situation of keeping old pop/cult and not being able to advance or having to get rid of them and replace with houses (wasting any time you have saved by going pop/cult last chapter)
 

DeletedUser8409

Guest
Regarding trades - this is not chapter-dependent. Cross-tiering down at 4:1 was [all else being equal] always beneficial. I did the maths when I was relatively early on (Dwarves) and realised that the ratios were massively off so I sold all but one of my Tier 1 and Tier 2 manufactories (keeping 1 for quests) and relied for a long time only on trades. The ratios are off because it only factors coins and supplies when what really matters to me is space, I calculated it based on the space for the manufactory plus the space for the residences plus the space for the culture. Later on when I stopped caring about culture I ignored that and sold my remaining manufactory as I stopped caring about quests too. Once a month or so I would post a load of trades and forget about it, someone would always take them (neighbours, not from my fellowship typically).

Some people here developed a strange idea almost like it was unethical to do crosstier trades, that's absurd in my eyes. I posted trades and if someone took them that was their own free choice, good luck to them. Yes I was "taking advantage" of them not thinking it through and no I don't feel guilty about it. Its a game, if they didn't bother to think through all the factors that affect them then that's their choice.

But the new ratios don't hinder anyone's progress. Relying on a lean, mean city is something I do well that's an exception to the rule - almost everyone who posts here wasn't posting crosstier trades. And the new ratios are fairer, though I think they've overcorrected. I'd have gone with a 1:2:4 ratio rather than a 1:1.5:2.25 ratio. 1:2:4 would be closer to fair values IMO and also make the numbers easier to calculate in your head.

For a long time now I've not traded as recent event buildings mean I'm self-sufficient in all tiers with zero manufactories. But T3 is my lowest production now, my stockpiles are very healthy now but if need be its actually helped me that now I can trade up the tiers at a fairer rate. If I need T3 I will have no qualms offering my T2 and seeing who takes the trade just like in the past - this won't eliminate crosstier trades and nor in my eyes should it, if you don't like a trade don't take it. But it is fairer, even if its still off IMHO. However the factors that affect each player is different which is why trades can be mutually beneficial and should not be looked down upon.
 

ANIKHTOS

Soothsayer
The new trade ratio's added are the best introduction in my 3 years here, thank you. Finally after so long fair trading is now across everthing. :)

Thank you to the devs, the complainers like @ANIKHTOS just need to find a fellowship that will help like ours for example with fair trades. :)

@ANIKHTOS you can still make the trades you want, takers of those trades will be there on occasion by accident. Play the game your way and please quit trying to make everyone play the game the same way. We are individuals and all play our own way. :)
assertions and intellectuall dishonesty
so someone with different opinion o yours is a loosy player?
you drop that low to personal attacks?
 

ANIKHTOS

Soothsayer
The only other problem i think for a early chapter player with going the pop/cul building way is that you advance through the chapters pretty quickly so they become obsolete and you cant replace them as big events come every 2-3 months so when you advance to chapter 4 in a few weeks/a month then you will be in a situation of keeping old pop/cult and not being able to advance or having to get rid of them and replace with houses (wasting any time you have saved by going pop/cult last chapter)
well i put a lo of thought on i,
and i already consider the upgrade path, also i consider my style of game and what i want to achieve
and i consider it to be the best fot now and near future

the game has as a see a few different approaches you can go for, all have pros and cons, none is he absolute best , a least for a growing player
given that i had zero space upgrading building would not be possible, or that beneficial, destroy some upgrade rest

and then event was here and the expansion space i got 2 of them buildings i went to play event which made once more upgrading houses impossible

so it was the best way to go for me
either upgrade houses and not have space to play event, or play event and got the building i got which allowed me to upgrade armouries and barracks and deal the no troops problem which i could not play tournament and spiral

so yeah i solved many issues on the go
i participate event and now i am quest 77 in 32 relics few hours i will finish it and move to finish quests

houses will be better chapter 5 not 4 chapter 4 will become same per tile, but by then new event will be here or around corner

not to mention this do not change size which removes another headache which i had with houses

but by all means you play the way you want be you ought to listen why the other done what he done

and even if a gigantic mistake it is mine to make ,
thank everyone for their concern but play the way you want i will do the same
 

RainbowElvira

Sorcerer
@ANIKHTOS I made some calculations earlier today, because I was really curious what the ratio for a relatively new player would be.

This is the city, might be familiar to you ;):

chapter3.png


Here is my Calculation

Your 3h production per tile is 4.81 T1, 4.13 T2 and 3.38 T3
For this city, a fair trading ratio would thus be 1 : 1.22 : 1.42, which is quite different from what you're advocating.
 

ANIKHTOS

Soothsayer
@ANIKHTOS I made some calculations earlier today, because I was really curious what the ratio for a relatively new player would be.

This is the city, might be familiar to you ;):

View attachment 4153

Here is my Calculation

Your 3h production per tile is 4.81 T1, 4.13 T2 and 3.38 T3
For this city, a fair trading ratio would thus be 1 : 1.22 : 1.42, which is quite different from what you're advocating.
!?!?!?
on what way you come this numbers?

the wood number 10 gives me 89 per 3 hour so 22.5
silk gives me 43 per 3 hour so 7.16
and magic dust is not unlocked so 0 but lets use merchant 3 for production 23 per 3 hour 3.83

22.5 7.16 3.83
5.88 1.87 1 or 3.14 1 0.54
and my silk production can be raised since i am close to unlock the technology but also my wood will be boosted from relics

and i played very conservative on expanding on territories

if i go now for magic i need 3 days and a bi more to unlock that goods
since i iimagine we talk for the boosted?

the level 1 and 4 are for the event , they should not be added in calculation to drive numbers down
 
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