Version 1.97

[ANIKHTOS]

@ANIKHTOS I made some calculations earlier today, because I was really curious what the ratio for a relatively new player would be.

This is the city, might be familiar to you :



Here is my Calculation

Your 3h production per tile is 4.81 T1, 4.13 T2 and 3.38 T3
For this city, a fair trading ratio would thus be 1 : 1.22 : 1.42, which is quite different from what you're advocating.

update now level 10 wood gives 95 per 3 hour so 23.75 which will increase which will also increase in next 2 days
also once more i have not unlocked any goods tier 3 yet
if you checked city few days earlier i had fewer wood level 1 and more workshop level 1 ,
but i is intellectual dishonest and misleading o add in calculations the level 1 which are here for the event and not to prod use
and given how fast and easy to level them to level 4 or 5 , now level one gives 12 per 3 hour or a mere 6

but yeah throw them in in an attempt to lower the numbers so you can have a "narrative"

once more since none speak english here
NEW RATIO is great for max players , but that does not mean it is fair to everyone else

 

[Deleted User - 1759805]

once more since none speak english here
NEW RATIO is great for max players , but that does not mean it is fair to everyone else

Repeating the same statement over and over and over again does not make it a fact. And you apparently have deep insight into endgame perspective for someone who played less than 3 weeks and is in chapter 2 (/s).

If you'll spend even a fraction of the energy that you spend flaming here on actually learning the game then you would do much better. Or if you're after pure trolling then at least make it a bit more entertaining. But please keep it up with English jabs - your obvious linguistic mastery makes it particularly hilarious.

 

[RainbowElvira]

@ANIKHTOS to get a meaningful per tile value for your manufactories, you have to factor in the space needed to support them. Space for population, culture and supplies production - and do not forget the street connections.

i have not unlocked any goods tier 3 yet

Why do you produce something you can't use anyway?

 

[Timneh]

Why do you produce something you can't use anyway?

I believe it is a case of trading the T3 goods for goods they can use but since the change they can not get as many goods as they were getting before and are now spitting out thier dummy.

This thread reminds me of the saying "there are none so blind as those that will not see" but in the case of this situation i think the saying should be changed to "there are none so deaf as those that will not hear".

 

[ANIKHTOS]

@ANIKHTOS to get a meaningful per tile value for your manufactories, you have to factor in the space needed to support them. Space for population, culture and supplies production - and do not forget the street connections.



Why do you produce something you can't use anyway?

i have not forget them
and what you mean not need them? i still need them

 

[ANIKHTOS]

I believe it is a case of trading the T3 goods for goods they can use but since the change they can not get as many goods as they were getting before and are now spitting out thier dummy.

This thread reminds me of the saying "there are none so blind as those that will not see" but in the case of this situation i think the saying should be changed to "there are none so deaf as those that will not hear".

lol what on earh mate do you soeak english?
i said i had a merchan 3 and since i was chaper 2 and no need for resources i sold hem out
i also have 2 merchant 2 but did no sell an of hose why? i show the technology and was slowing stockpiling he huge amount i would need to go chapter 3
and when i reach chapter 3 ii stop selling even the tier 3 and star stockpiling them for again technology need

in the rare occasion i run out of tier 1 goods and i really need them i will go to wholesale and if i need boosted , somehow i always miss wood!?!?1, use the new raitio and finish story

you akk bunch read i disagree with new ratio do not bother read why or what is said, and go out in assertions of how i play or not
not to mention once more that already i said this makes perfect sense for max out players

will anyone of you, use he non existence brain cells and actually reply on what i say/

 

[ANIKHTOS]

@ANIKHTOS to get a meaningful per tile value for your manufactories, you have to factor in the space needed to support them. Space for population, culture and supplies production - and do not forget the street connections.



Why do you produce something you can't use anyway?

i put dead space into use, why have 2 piece of road which will make city look more real and not keep he marble? and keep getting he 6 marble per 3 hours
i know it will not do anything but it will help more than road
also i put main hall in corner but left space to be read to upgrade to max , which is another dead space , used to have culture but now i put my steel there
so why not keep them
when i put them in space that would be road?

 

[Pauly7]

@ANIKHTOS I think I may block you so I don't see these messages anymore. You just say the same thing again and again. It is hard to read and makes no logical sense, but yet you keep saying it and are now getting abusive with people.... gives me a headache.

 

[Timneh]

lol what on earh mate do you soeak english?

Yes i do and i speak it a hell of a lot better than you do.
Like @Pauly7 i think i will also block you so i do not have to spend my time trying to make sense of the nonsense that you post.

 

[ANIKHTOS]

@ANIKHTOS to get a meaningful per tile value for your manufactories, you have to factor in the space needed to support them. Space for population, culture and supplies production - and do not forget the street connections.



Why do you produce something you can't use anyway?

Okey lets go more complex
The culture building I can have is 12 squares and gives 400 for 33.33 per square
I can have level 7 houses that’s 6 squares for 100 people and 40 culture. So an extra 1.2 squares so 7.2 squares, for 13.89 people per square
So plank level 10 needs 127 people, so an extra 9.14 squares and 31 culture, so an extra 0.93 squares. So sum all up.4+9.14 +0.93=14.07
Silk level 3 needs 104 people , so an extra 7.49 squares and 18 culture so an extra 0.54 squares. So sum all up 6+7.49+0.54=14.03
95 wood 43 silk
wood 6.75 silk 3.06 so wood 2.21 silk 1
how things change if I can build level 8 house?
9 squares for 170 people and 67 culture So an extra 2.01 squares so 11.01 squares, for 15.44 people per square
plank 4+8.23+0,93=13.16 silk 6+6.74+0.54= 13.28
wood 7.22 silk 3.24 so wood 2.23 silk 1
so better houses makes he ratio goes bigger no smaller

now in my city
float 15 square for 360 people and 480 culture for 24 and 32 per square
which means 1 square covers both people and colure need for the goods

plank 4+5.29=9.29 silk silk 6+4.33=10.33
wood 10.23 silk 4.16 wood 2.46 silk 1
so hybrids buildings gives better outcome for goods so you can have more goods build but at same time makes ratio worse

so you can have better ratio and smaller production, or more production and worse ratio

 

[ANIKHTOS]

@ANIKHTOS to get a meaningful per tile value for your manufactories, you have to factor in the space needed to support them. Space for population, culture and supplies production - and do not forget the street connections.



Why do you produce something you can't use anyway?

lets add roads

house will need 2 road squares which also provide 20 colure we take it from requirements 40-20=20 so 6+2+0.6=8.6 so 11.63 people per square

plank need 2 road also

plank 4+10.92+2+0.33=17.55

silk also need 2 road

silk 6+8.94+2+0=16.94



wood 5.41 silk 2.54 so wood 2.13 silk 1



what about level 8 house, will need 3 road connection

9+3+1.11=13.11 so 12.97 people per square



plank 4+9.79+2+0.33=16.12 silk 6+8.02+2+0=16.02



wood 5.89 silk 2.68 so wood 2.2 silk 1



but now after tournament I make 101 no longer 95

so all numbers will be revised and worsen ratio between tiers

last one wood 6.27 silk 2.68 so wood wood 2.5 silk 1

if any conclusion to be drawn is a new player depending which tournament pass will keep changing the ratio of a new player as tier will not be similar boosted which can make the ratio to go a bit over 3 , and as I said many times the new ratio looks at max production

 

[FieryArien]

Why do you produce something you can't use anyway?

and what you mean not need them? i still need them

I would also love to know why do you produce T3 goods if you haven't reached T3 manufactory research yet. Humans actually do need T3 goods for upgrading houses before researching T3 manufactories. But you have an elven city, haven't you? So why? For what do you need T3 goods?

wood 6.75 silk 3.06 so wood 2.21 silk 1

It will be interesting to have another update from you in three weeks, when you improve your silk production. (I'm quoting just one of your results as an example, the posts are very long.)

Anyway, yes, you don't like the trading ratio change. Your city was balanced around the old trading ratios. The advantageous trades shifted and it's no longer trading T3 for T1, but T1 for T3 now. I mean for your city, not in general. That must hurt and it explains your anger (not your language, though). The problem is that your conclusion that new players are being hurt by this change is not correct. Another time another new player will have totally different relics amounts and will actually produce T1 the least effectively of all three. What will you say then?

Btw I still remember the timing of tournaments in one of my cities: my boosted T1 tournament was quite early, it was when my city was small and had just few provinces. So my T1 production was horribly ineffective and I had to have a lot of T1 manufactories and it took the whole cycle of all tournaments before it could be fixed. The production improvement was dramatic and I sold several T1 manufactories after that. Interestingly, I didn't resort to cross-tier trading during that poor period. It has been said before and I'll say it again: cross-tier trading is simply not necessary, it's just a bonus option to get needed goods. The most important thing is to produce only boosted goods in each tier and trade for the other two. Being in a good fellowship helps a lot.

 

[DeletedUser5093]

Without naming names, I feel it might be worth pointing out to everyone that if a certain player is consistently aggressive and confrontational, always starting or escalating arguments, calling people names, engaging in personal attacks, and just generally being quite unpleasant to be around (and whose behaviour is inexplicably yet to come to the attention of the mods), you do have the option to mute them on the forums.

To do this, click on their name next to one of their posts, then on their profile click the 'Ignore' button. You will no longer see their posts.
*edit* Nevermind, looks like a mod stepped in and banned them, so their profile can no longer be found.

 

[FieryArien]

if any conclusion to be drawn is a new player depending which tournament pass will keep changing the ratio of a new player as tier will not be similar boosted which can make the ratio to go a bit over 3 , and as I said many times the new ratio looks at max production

I see you got to that conclusion in meantime. Well, I won't delete my previous post, just add here:

and as I said many times the new ratio looks at max production

No, the new ratio looks at "all being equal" situation. Since there will always be people who have more T1 relics than others, people who have more T2 relics than others, and people who have more T3 relics than others, the trading ratio can't reflect all these situation at the same time. Did the old ratio reflect all these situations at the same time?? The new ratio doesn't count with all max bonus production, but with all equal bonus production (aka on average).

 

[m4rt1n]

4 pages of replies on a game update, we haven't had that many since the Great Bell Lighthouse Nerf years ago.

I am pleased to see though like me that the vast majority of players see the trader ratio alterations as a great positive step in the right direction.

 

[Paladestar]

4 pages of replies on a game update, we haven't had that many since the Great Bell Lighthouse Nerf years ago.

Just wait until they post about the 3* Frogs nerf...

 

[AstralSoul]

Just wait until they post about the 3* Frogs nerf...

Why not start now? Hahahaha LOL

Because the frogs this week are super powerful, especially the white one (3*). I've lost battles that I should have won haha. Not sure if its paranoia, or if these frogs are still hitting like bulldozers.

 

[DeletedUser4149]

i found this thread to be hilarious. a lot of people seem to have a lot of misconceptions about economics
a good's value and price is based on its supply and demand. whatever elvenar says it's worth, doesn't matter. elvenar doesn't trade goods among players. it's the players that offer and accept goods that determine the supply and demand of those goods and therefore, the actual value of goods. elvenar just set meaningless guidelines that several of you seem concerned w/ because you have goofy fair trading only policies that are based on elvenar's meaningless guidelines.

surely, those of you who complained about the dumb 4 to 1 ratio understand how meaningless those guidelines were. they probably only took into account gold and supplies used for production and not the cost of land and people used. even if they did take all of those factors into account, production costs have very little to do w/ a good's value. if a manufacturer pays more for labor or the price of their factory than a competitor, does that make their good more valuable than an identical good made by a manufacturer that uses less expensive labor? no.

it made no sense to abide by elvenar's given standard of valuing goods in the 1st place. even though elvenar's new standard for valuing goods is probably more accurate than its previous standard, it doesn't make sense to strictly follow that standard either. it's you the players that determine a good's value based on your needs and supply collectively as a society. be smart and determine a good's value based on your own needs and how easily you can produce or trade for whichever good you are trying to value.

btw, when i stopped playing last fall, i felt that 2 for 1 was pretty fair for T2 for T3. T1 for T2 is a lot harder for me to guess because my 2 cities had different levels of supply and demand for those goods and i didn't trade them in large volumes like i did T3 for T2. but i'd guess 3 to 1 or maybe up to 4 to 1 is fair for T1 for T2 because the supply of T2 is often the lowest in relation to its demand and the supply of T1 and T3. also, the newest chapter upgraded T1 factories, increasing the supply and lowering the value of T1. to me, it seems foolish to have a consistent exchange rate in a world where supply and demand change often, especially when it comes to dust being valuable during a scroll tourney and going down in value when the silk tourney starts but that's pretty much a different subject. the value and supply of T2 will change again when the next new chapter comes out but elvenar probably won't adjust their guidelines on exchange rates a 3rd time when that happens.

I'M GOING TO RETIRE FROM THIS GAME SOON. i had a lotta fun but it's old to me now and i'm gonna move on to other things. some of you might be happy to hear that before i do, i wanna share something w/ you i almost felt was a well kept secret that i kept within my fellowships. i'm also gonna sound full of myself but before i quit this game, i am very curious if any other player on this server ever made 300k in T3 NET profits just from trading T3 for T3 in a 24 hour period? honestly, i did that on 2 separate occasions i'll bet most of my oldest fellows won't doubt this claim either. i often made over 100k in T3 from trading on tuesdays and fridays and saturdays when goods that were highly demanded were tournament goods and i sold near a million of them in a single day. for a few years, i was always curious if any other player did this because, so far, i haven't met anyone who has even heard of another player that was trading as efficiently as i was. i was able to do this by exploiting many players' misconceptions about economics, the weaknesses of fair trading only policies, re-investing profits, and the very predictable changes in supply and demand due to tournaments.

i feel like that last paragraph DOES RELATE TO THE CHANGES IN VALUING GOODS. now that i'm starting to get off topic, i'm going to continue this subject in the lounge if anyone is interested. i am very interested to hear from anyone who traded similarly to the way i did or wants to discuss the ethics of trading this way.

 

[DeletedUser9340]

@RainbowElvira The calculation just BLEW my mind

 

[ANIKHTOS]

I would also love to know why do you produce T3 goods if you haven't reached T3 manufactory research yet. Humans actually do need T3 goods for upgrading houses before researching T3 manufactories. But you have an elven city, haven't you? So why? For what do you need T3 goods?


It will be interesting to have another update from you in three weeks, when you improve your silk production. (I'm quoting just one of your results as an example, the posts are very long.)

Anyway, yes, you don't like the trading ratio change. Your city was balanced around the old trading ratios. The advantageous trades shifted and it's no longer trading T3 for T1, but T1 for T3 now. I mean for your city, not in general. That must hurt and it explains your anger (not your language, though). The problem is that your conclusion that new players are being hurt by this change is not correct. Another time another new player will have totally different relics amounts and will actually produce T1 the least effectively of all three. What will you say then?

Btw I still remember the timing of tournaments in one of my cities: my boosted T1 tournament was quite early, it was when my city was small and had just few provinces. So my T1 production was horribly ineffective and I had to have a lot of T1 manufactories and it took the whole cycle of all tournaments before it could be fixed. The production improvement was dramatic and I sold several T1 manufactories after that. Interestingly, I didn't resort to cross-tier trading during that poor period. It has been said before and I'll say it again: cross-tier trading is simply not necessary, it's just a bonus option to get needed goods. The most important thing is to produce only boosted goods in each tier and trade for the other two. Being in a good fellowship helps a lot.

well i said it many times i got a merchantIII in the magic academy and i had no use for the goods at that point so i change them for tier 1 goods that i needed so badly . i also said that when i enter i chapter III i stop that and i stockpiled the production to be ready for the technology
thats why i say no one cared to read what i said and only show and cared the part i said the 4 to 1 ratio was good for new to very new players

even i had also merchant II i never sold any of them in the trader, why ? i show the technology tree and i start stockpiling to be ready for that.
and by the time i needed the tier 2 goods i had barely collect them