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Update Discussion Version 1.47 + Elementals

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Muf-Muf, Feb 6, 2018.

  1. Mykan

    Mykan Sorcerer

    Joined:
    May 6, 2016
    Edit: ran some quick numbers and I don't see the issue. Everything still goes up by my calcs and that is after allowing for culture, pop, culture for pop, etc.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
  2. Pimpy

    Pimpy Conjurer

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2017
    I would really like to learn from you @Mykan, could you give some details in numbers please? :)
     
  3. Thezza

    Thezza Spellcaster

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2016
    I cannot be bothered with doing Calculus, spreadsheets, and interminable maths to work out every thing per square per minute x pop x sine of Dust - square root of Silk / AW boost......seems extreme overkill for a fun game...what seems to be the problem to me is not how much Marble my lvl 24 manus make but the STUPIDLY teeny tiny amount of Moonstone they make...why should my original Boosted T1 make pretty much 8 times less than the new T1 manus I have had to build..makes no sense at all.
     
    Tiriake likes this.
  4. eversor

    eversor Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    Because your original boost is for your T1 manus only. Your boost for the sentient goods is your T1 + 1 boost. Seems like an obvious logical answer to me. It would be like you saying, why doesn't my T1 boost work for my other T1 manus? Why is production so much worse for my non-boosted T1 manus? Because they don't have the boost. That's the name of the game. Build up the manus you have the boost for. And now it's your T1 + 1 boost. You have to slightly adjust to the new guest race. Don't need Calculus or spreadsheets. Just need to understand the boost concept.
     
  5. Thezza

    Thezza Spellcaster

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2016
    No, it's not like saying that at all...the point was the paltry amount of Moonstone compared to the amount of Platinum..instead of trading for the 1 missing new goods you have to trade for 2 of the 3..the amount the original T1 makes is far too small in comparison to the new T1 boost, that's all, nothing to do with non boosted.
     
  6. shadowblack

    shadowblack Necromancer

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2016
    You have one boosted good per tier, and you are expected to trade for the other two. That is nothing new.

    Also, there is NO "new T1 boost". No idea where you got that. Marble is your T1 boost, Plantinum is your T4 boost. So you are expected to trade for Moonstone and Tree Gum, the way you would trade for Steel and Planks in previous chapters.
     
    Mykan likes this.
  7. Mykan

    Mykan Sorcerer

    Joined:
    May 6, 2016
    Exactly what Shadowblack said. Basically you have have a new T4 factory it just so happens it can produce non-boosted T1. Just like your boosted T1 can produce non-boosted T4. The concept of a factory producing 2 different goods (ignoring guest races/events) is new but the concepts of boosts and trading remain the same.

    Maybe I am just looking at something different. I was working out the base production per square, I ignored boosts as its kind of irrelevant as all it does is increase the base number depending on my boost %. Once I determined base production per square, so 69/square, I then adjusted this to factor in additional squares required for support from residences and culture. I did ignore roads as everything needs a minimum of 1, i could add it in but unlikely to make any real difference. I did have to convert 3/hr production to 1/day to compare to previous information from the wiki so a factor of approx 3.14 (it varies a bit so had to pick a number). This gave me an adjusted production per square of 60.

    So the adjusted production in chapter 11 was 43/square and I figure it is now 60/square in chapter 12. I expect T4 and T5 to do the same in the next chapters. You can see the increase in the upgrades over time as each factory got its upgrade as each guest race came through so all T1-3 factories were roughly 30-32/square by the end of Orcs after they all got their first upgrade and then 43-45/square by the end of halflings when they all got their second upgrade. It would appear the third upgrade will take them all to 60ish/square. My numbers are based on F2P buildings, premium/event residences/culture would only make this better.
     
  8. LazyTony

    LazyTony Sorcerer

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2018
    Odd that diadel, myself and herodotus come to one conclusion, and you to another mykan. I suspect we are calculating differently.

    Can I ask a question - were you using the same residence (and therefore population per square) for every factory level? Or have you been using the residence level from the chapter appropriate to the factory level?
     
  9. Pimpy

    Pimpy Conjurer

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2017
    Thank you @Mykan :)
    I am trying real hard to understand all, I get the 69 and the 3.14
    But the adjustment to 60 had me wonder.

    1381 production/20=69
    6529 population/20=326.45

    326.45 is 11.66% of 2800 (res)
    11.66% of 16 tiles = 1.87 tile
    1 tile for culture

    1381/21.87=63 adjusted with pop
    1381/22.87=60 adjusted with pop + culture
     
  10. Mykan

    Mykan Sorcerer

    Joined:
    May 6, 2016
    Residence relevant to the chapter and culture relevant to the chapter.
     
  11. LazyTony

    LazyTony Sorcerer

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2018
    That explains it Mykan. We are answering slightly different questions. You are calculating whether production improves from one chapter to the next. Diadel, Herodotus and me are calculating that we are better with lower level factories in later chapters because the factory building itself is becoming less productive. Our numbers show that it would be more efficient to have elemental residences with halflings tier 1 factories than it would be to have elemental factories with elemental residences for example. Diadel has calculated that level 8 elixir factories are the most efficient, etc.

     
    Mykan likes this.
  12. Pimpy

    Pimpy Conjurer

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2017
    Ahhhh now I get it! Took a while but better late than nevah. Fanks :D
     
  13. Diadal

    Diadal Alchemist

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2018
    Steel 16-19 gets unlocked in dwarfs, even if I use residences(900),culture (140 sq) and roads (77 culture) from orc chapter I still drop on output upgrading beyond lvl 15. Scrolls (10-15 unluck in ch5) improve with orc data up to lvl 14, but very small amount. Elixer (9-15 ch5) improve with orc data up to lvl 11, also very small amount.

    I did include roads (0.5* shorthest side) for manu's and residences and also the culture provided by the roads and culture needed for manu's and residences.

    If you start upgrading the manu's in the chapter they are unlocked, they all drop in efficienty, simply because population/sq and culture/sq is not high enough. Even using data from later chapters will hardly improve the manu's. You don't upgrade to make them better, you upgrade because there is nothing better to do.
     
  14. Horanda

    Horanda Enchanter

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2015
    Reality check.

    Mark Twain once stated: "There are 3 levels of falsehood, lies, damned lies, and statistics."

    This is a game, it is only a game. If your analysis of the features of the game reduces your enjoyment of the game, and you still want to play the game, then give up on the analysis. There are quite a number of games that I still enjoy despite mathematical anomalies and abysmal grammar because, no matter how important these may be in life, this is a game, and recreation does not have to be perfect.
     
    EdwardTrunk, nancy174 and m4rt1n like this.
  15. LazyTony

    LazyTony Sorcerer

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2018
    What if using numbers to solve a problem is the bit I enjoy.......... :p
     
    Lelanya and nancy174 like this.
  16. Lisica

    Lisica Guest

    Having read everything that people are saying on the numbers and productions etc etc makes my fingers itch to produce a new city plan with lower level factories but more of them in the space!

    However, it does make me wonder if this is all part of Inno's plan to slow us down in the game, we already know that Elementals is all about making us take a long time to get through the tree with all the decaying of this and that, the collecting of everything slow and painful etc... with enforcing the squad upgrades and giving us less goods this means we won't be able to do the big numbers in tournaments which we used to and therefore gain less kp for "skipping through the tree".

    We've been told that the need for the boosted T1 factories will become less, but I use my T1 goods for negotiating on the world map, if I have less of them how does it help me to keep clearing provinces? Those who are affected by the compulsory squad upgrades (that's everybody who fights in tournaments) won't be able to fall back on negotiating as they'll have less of their boosted factory goods.
     
  17. Diadal

    Diadal Alchemist

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2018
    All city building games are based on creating a balanced city. Some use math, others just upgrade and hope it turns out right.

    Still leaves the question why the sidequests advice a player to upgrade buildings (to soon), to make it more efficient, if the numbers prove this is not the case. Creating shortage of space, lots of upgrading etc. One might think it has something to do with the solutions to solve this problem.

    Some people spent money on a game because its good. Others spent money and so the game has to be good. Very often this is reflected in their opinion.

    @Lisica: I can do about 150 KP in every tournament, without chests rewards. Not interested in the ranking, parents with lots of children are hard to beat.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2018
    EdwardTrunk and Pimpy like this.
  18. Lisica

    Lisica Guest

    I don't have a problem with tournaments at the moment, I'm an auto-fighter because despite those who are better than me at fighting saying that we lose less troops with manual fighting this isn't true for me, I lose way more with manual! The compulsory squad upgrades will make fighting in tournaments harder but should help on the world map... that's fine, but I've scouted so far now that there's no way I can ever win a fight there, I feel I passed the Very Hard stage a long time ago, I'm probably on the Too Hard, Just Ignore provinces.

    As a general rule of thumb I open between 22 and 30 provinces in tournaments currently (some are easier than others), and working on getting the max kp for the minimum loss I can earn between 119 and 159 kp individually plus whatever my FS earns as a whole.

    Ranking in this game in meaningless when people can just buy their way to the top... you'll always find those who want to be the best regardless of how they get there and then become desperate to tell everybody how great they are... sadly, its just pixels and in the real world has no meaning other than the decreasing bank account which some will have!
     
    Diadal and Pimpy like this.
  19. LazyTony

    LazyTony Sorcerer

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2018
    We still have the problem with having no use for T4 factories in the 3- 6 month period after finishing elementals and before the next chapter is released. I built 2 T4, and after using a spreadsheet calculator for the chapter its overkill. 1 would have been fine, with occasional use of MM spells on it at certain points when T4 demand is high.One T4 factory and the supporting residences is 44 squares before allowing for roads. Its 2 expansions basically per factory. How can you justify 2 expansions being used to create a decaying resource that is no use to you for the next 6 months? There is a serious risk that the T4 trading economy will disappear, and players reaching elementals in 2 months time will have very few people to trade with.
     
  20. Pimpy

    Pimpy Conjurer

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2017
    OMG, I fainted whilst laughing!

    Oh noes, it just pixels? They have bigger pixels than me?

    I have a funfact for you because you luv numbers
    Did you know? ....
    That our top 2 server players combined have put more KP into their wonders than all the players in our Fellowship together.
    We are all above 130k rankingpoints and a bunch have been playing since 2015!
    The number of AW ranking points is open to public
     

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