DeletedUser
Guest
Maybe the developers should remember who pays their wages and let the players have more say in games changes, as far as Im concerned the new wholesaler is a joke and the games becoming one to 
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Version 1.22
- Thread starter Muf-Muf
- Start date
Timneh
Artisan
I don't think you are off with your assumption. I think the main problem (for me anyway) is the amount of small and start up cities that get abandoned. I have discovered over 130 cities and out of those only around a dozen are active traders, the rest are not big enough to trade or are inactive. If i was not in a very good fellowship i would struggle to get the goods i need.
I also have at least two cities in my neighbourhood that are over 30 days with no login and they have not been deleted. I know they have not been logged in to because they have not changed at all and they still have the same buildings being upgraded all the time and buildings do not complete upgrade unless the person is logged in. One of them has been the same since before Christmas.
cwgiii
Shaman
same general situation with me. I saw on one of the threads that there is actually a protest movement to start new cities, get them to a point where the MH can be upgraded and then abandon them on purpose to keep them in limbo. All to frustrate the devs with more complaints and probably drive more players out of the game.
Timneh
Artisan
I really can not see any point in doing that as i do not think the devs will care much, they will just say that those cities will be deleted after 30 days of inactivity. The only way that MIGHT have any effect is if all the cities were taken to chapter 3 or had diamonds bought for them as that would mean they could not be deleted. There is a good chance that it would drive more players out of the game but Inno are doing a good job of doing that anyway.
DeletedUser1829
Guest
Considering 2 recent negative changes were player requested I am not sure I would put much faith in them either
DeletedUser1414
Guest
I used the old whole saler quite a bit i got sick and tired of only seeing zero trades up and pages of them. I also dont bother doing the quest lines any more as if i get maxed out i have the use the new crappy wholesaler. Once i use the diamonds that i have thats it no more, this game is so not worth the money or time to be honest.
DeletedUser
Guest
I agree Cherri as far as Im am concerned they have stuffed the game up big time I used to enjoy playing no more. I wonder if the so called developers read these posts?
DeletedUser1414
Guest
they are not interested in what we have to say we are just the poor mugs who put up with being treated like fools.
DeletedUser1952
Guest
hate the new trader... now I am putting up 100k dust for 1600k steel..... see if anyone want to accept that! It is still a 2-stars trade.
And there are hardly any player trading their steel! Really forcing me to build steel manufactories to produce my own.
And there are hardly any player trading their steel! Really forcing me to build steel manufactories to produce my own.
sunrae
Soothsayer
Ok so this is just my opinion please don't shoot me for it. When the changes were first made to the wholesaler I hated it. I saw that we were getting less for more when we needed to use it. But after reading the forum and having a good think about it, I do not believe the problem lies with the wholesaler at all, and in fact the Devs were not wrong to change it. There are good suggestions that would improve the wholesalers place in the game but that is not my point at this time.
A lot of cities did rely too much on being able to buy goods when really the game is that players need to built a solid factory base to trade with other city builders. ( This is not about those who need to get rid of coins or supplies as and when they have a surplus although I think we could do with some more alternatives.) I see trades up on the market now, and some of them are quite baffling. Cities are asking for goods that are their own boosted ones. Trades that are tiny amounts of T3 asking for thousands of T1. I have come to think that perhaps some players are simply not building enough of their own boosted goods factories, and are not upgrading them often enough. It is human nature to want to move forward but I have come to appreciate it's not a race up the tech tree but instead a measured plan of city and community building. I also think that since the tournaments have become fellowship based there is obviously more incentive to go further in the tournaments for your non-boosted goods in order to support your fellows. The switch from neighbourhood to fs is a good thing in my opinion but it is also very costly if you do not/cannot battle.
MY second thought is what comes to the real problem. There are definitely too many ghost towns still. My boosts in one world are planks, scrolls and dust. I simply cannot get marble. I have scouted much further than I should in order to open up the world to more traders but every time I encounter unplayed cities. I am in healthy fellowships but it is a common problem, we all need to trade with our neighbours as in my fs there is still shortages of certain goods, unless you pick fellows on their boosted only which is hard to do as recruiting is a tough enough job anyway.
Therefore I don't think the real trouble lies with the trader changes at all. I think the Devs are correct in encouraging everyone to rely on trades rather than purchases. The real problem is in not concentrating the living cities together speedily enough. Perhaps new cities should be deliberately placed next to a large one so older players can really encourage the newbie to carry on playing. It is a game which you do need to stick with to understand how to get the most fun of it all. Or maybe all the newbies could start in a feeder world and only when they reach a certain level they might be moved to the centre world. I understand that what happens now is less frequent players are moved outwards and more frequent are moved inward but maybe knowing that there was actually another "world" you progress to might keep the newer players playing. Perhaps the concept of Fellowships could be actively introduced to the new player in the early days of the game. Instead of there being less ghost towns which I was expecting to see after the announcement about the moving I think I am actually seeing more. In one of my worlds there has been an improvement, but unless changes happen fast enough we are going to lose more players than we are gaining and that affects the trader board quicker than anything.
Please give me someone to trade with - I want to trade - I put up trades every day - I have built a good ratio of tiered factories - I have upgraded them to the max as I can manage. If a new city is not logged onto could we not get some goods as well as or instead of the gold that we get now? Instead of half my NH allowance perhaps I could be given say 300 marble or 150 silk or 75 gems? A percentage of my unboosted goods according to what level I am on. Not a lot but it would be something while I wait for another new city to come into being, be played for a day then turn into another corpse. I think attracting new players is vital and something is clearly not working as well as it might to keep them.
I do understand people becoming hot under the collar over issues affecting this game. It is because it is such a great game, with a lively and friendly community, and we all invest a lot of our time and, for many, hard earned money, and nobody wants to see it slowly disappear.
A lot of cities did rely too much on being able to buy goods when really the game is that players need to built a solid factory base to trade with other city builders. ( This is not about those who need to get rid of coins or supplies as and when they have a surplus although I think we could do with some more alternatives.) I see trades up on the market now, and some of them are quite baffling. Cities are asking for goods that are their own boosted ones. Trades that are tiny amounts of T3 asking for thousands of T1. I have come to think that perhaps some players are simply not building enough of their own boosted goods factories, and are not upgrading them often enough. It is human nature to want to move forward but I have come to appreciate it's not a race up the tech tree but instead a measured plan of city and community building. I also think that since the tournaments have become fellowship based there is obviously more incentive to go further in the tournaments for your non-boosted goods in order to support your fellows. The switch from neighbourhood to fs is a good thing in my opinion but it is also very costly if you do not/cannot battle.
MY second thought is what comes to the real problem. There are definitely too many ghost towns still. My boosts in one world are planks, scrolls and dust. I simply cannot get marble. I have scouted much further than I should in order to open up the world to more traders but every time I encounter unplayed cities. I am in healthy fellowships but it is a common problem, we all need to trade with our neighbours as in my fs there is still shortages of certain goods, unless you pick fellows on their boosted only which is hard to do as recruiting is a tough enough job anyway.
Therefore I don't think the real trouble lies with the trader changes at all. I think the Devs are correct in encouraging everyone to rely on trades rather than purchases. The real problem is in not concentrating the living cities together speedily enough. Perhaps new cities should be deliberately placed next to a large one so older players can really encourage the newbie to carry on playing. It is a game which you do need to stick with to understand how to get the most fun of it all. Or maybe all the newbies could start in a feeder world and only when they reach a certain level they might be moved to the centre world. I understand that what happens now is less frequent players are moved outwards and more frequent are moved inward but maybe knowing that there was actually another "world" you progress to might keep the newer players playing. Perhaps the concept of Fellowships could be actively introduced to the new player in the early days of the game. Instead of there being less ghost towns which I was expecting to see after the announcement about the moving I think I am actually seeing more. In one of my worlds there has been an improvement, but unless changes happen fast enough we are going to lose more players than we are gaining and that affects the trader board quicker than anything.
Please give me someone to trade with - I want to trade - I put up trades every day - I have built a good ratio of tiered factories - I have upgraded them to the max as I can manage. If a new city is not logged onto could we not get some goods as well as or instead of the gold that we get now? Instead of half my NH allowance perhaps I could be given say 300 marble or 150 silk or 75 gems? A percentage of my unboosted goods according to what level I am on. Not a lot but it would be something while I wait for another new city to come into being, be played for a day then turn into another corpse. I think attracting new players is vital and something is clearly not working as well as it might to keep them.
I do understand people becoming hot under the collar over issues affecting this game. It is because it is such a great game, with a lively and friendly community, and we all invest a lot of our time and, for many, hard earned money, and nobody wants to see it slowly disappear.
DeletedUser3034
Guest
Vey well put, and imagine, if when visiting a neighbor, if they hadn't logged on in say 48 hours, they city behaved as an open mine of it's boost type, and you received those goods in proportion to your MH, rather than coin.
Timneh
Artisan
Ok maybe the wholesaler was used a lot more than the devs ever intended but in MY case this was because i could not get the goods i needed by trading and the reason for this is because i was surrounded by start up cities so they did not have the goods i wanted. I would always prefer to trade rather than buy the goods because lets be honest the wholesaler was expensive even before the change but now it is just crazy. I am now in a good fs and that helps immensely. If the devs want players to trade more they need to come up with a way to make sure that players have plenty of neighbours with the goods needed i.e not surrounded by players with only t1 goods when they need t2 and t3 as well. The idea of a starter world as sunrae suggested might help with this but possibly could cause other problems.
DeletedUser2957
Guest
Like its already been stated, I find that I'm always trying to find trades by using my boosted goods in T1 T2 and T3, but there are times when I can't trade because whatever my fs or neighbours want is not the boosted goods I have to offer so I'm always running out of T1 goods (namely steel and planks). I wish the wholesaler brought back the 5000 purchase or at least keep the purchase price the same instead of it rising after each purchase. Well we can hope.....
DeletedUser1994
Guest
The new trading system only penalises people who are having difficulty with the game! it was always hugely expensive to buy goods, no-one who didn't have to bought goods unless they had coins to burn off. If that is the case then people will still have to use the warehouse anyway and if it isn't but because there are no goods on the trader or no neighbours with the goods you need you are just stuck... Elvener say they made the change to encourage people to put up trades to get their goods, but people are not going to put up goods they may need and have to buy when the cost is so prohibitive... they just hoard. What if you put up trades and they are not taken..... what then? What do those with the wrong neighbours or inactive neighbours or poor fellowships do for goods? Perhaps they should just stop playing because they are inconvenient? The logic is very flawed. If people are not trading but buying when the cost is 5:1 then putting the price up further is the answer?? I would have thought if you wanted to encourage trading then making trading better would have been a more positive step than making the game more unplayable, especially for some unfortunates who are already struggling. I sometimes wonder whether the developers want a game people enjoy and keep playing when they insist on making changes that they know are going to be universally unpopular and discouraging and no-one wants..again a very flawed logic. which spoils a beautifully crafted and originally very playable game.
DeletedUser3097
Guest
Thank you for your comments- I am moving your post to the Version 1.22 thread as that is mainly about the changes to the wholesaler.
In the recent Question and Answers video, Timon (game designer) spoke extensively about the wholesaler. I think you might be interested to watch that section (The Wholesaler/ The Trader: 13.54) if you haven't already.
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DeletedUser1994
Guest
I saw the justification for putting up the prices on the trader, I think they are a load of rubbish, wrong on all sorts of levels and just plain irritating and it is the constant irritations that lose this game so many advanced members. At the higher levels played are leaving in droves... no-body seems to care except the AM's who have to constantly recruit to replace them. I think development must sit there trying to think of ways that it an irritate its customers yet again! Trading was never a good or economical option...it was always very expensive and I don't believe people used the wholesaler because they were too lazy to trade.... no-one likes to feel ripped off and I can tell you, and you should know from listing to your own players that they are feeling more ripped off than they already did, and they already did! It spoils the game and people get fed up and drift away. When the annoyances reach a certain level, and I accept that there are bound to be some and you can't please all the people all the time, then people walk away. I have lost track of the time I have spent talking people down, calming them down after yet another un-beneficial change. Some changes are necessary, some beneficial, some are just plain bloody minded and a blatant attempt to manipulate players into playing the way the developers want them to play and not the way the players want to play.....