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Version 0.35

DeletedUser

Guest
It's probably going to take a while before I build that academy. I hadn't realised it costs boosted relics to build it. They're too precious for me at the current time especially when considering I also have to take down at least one boosted manufactory for the space required (more than doubles the negative impact on my goods production in my opinion). Thus I'll have to at least wait until the devs release a further form of gaining relics apart from encounters/remove the 'soft-cap' due to scouting costs. Guessing that could be a few months down the road as the next update is likely to be the next chapter due to the very obvious demands/complaints the community have placed across several language servers.

The academy looks great though (both the human and elven ones). Really looking forward to see what else the devs have planned with the academy when upgrading it. That might change my view on whether or not the temporary (and limited) bonus through spells will compensate for the permanent reduction I'd have in production by building the academy.

Don't let all this keep you from working hard on all those other projects too though! Such as the new quest system, the repopulation of the world map/deletion of inactives, fixing the mail notification bug, the new neighbourhood feature, the next chapter (which looks absolutely stunning from the preview we saw), whatever else you have planned for the inventory (like the KP packages from AW rewards?), etc, etc.

I know you guys are busy. So... Good luck. :)
 

DeletedUser1224

Guest
Here's my write up on the Magic Academy

So far only the supplies and goods spells are live.

The building resources are minimal.

Space 5x5


The nitty gritty
Supplies spell takes 16 hrs to make and costs 2 relics
Goods supply takes 1 day and 8 hrs and costs 4 relics

Your spell will only work on ONE unit - eg one workshop or one factory!

My advice to you is this:

Don't build it.
Use the 5x5 space for something more useful - remember that to progress, you must always keep one expansion totally free.

You will need your relics in the future!
When you get further, you will build 4 other buildings that use relics for upgrades - martial monastery. crystal lighthouse, dwarven bulwark and mountain halls. You will need your relics for these but the benefits are permanent - not temporary.

Also - can't delete the Magic Academy now - only built it for an experiment to advise my fellowship.

Not impressed at all.

Regards

Wolf
 
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DeletedUser

Guest
It's probably going to take a while before I build that academy. I hadn't realised it costs boosted relics to build it. They're too precious for me at the current time especially when considering I also have to take down at least one boosted manufactory for the space required (more than doubles the negative impact on my goods production in my opinion). Thus I'll have to at least wait until the devs release a further form of gaining relics apart from encounters/remove the 'soft-cap' due to scouting costs. Guessing that could be a few months down the road as the next update is likely to be the next chapter due to the very obvious demands/complaints the community have placed across several language servers.

I don't really understand why the academy was not released at the same time as a relic "regeneration" system. Not that relic regeneration would even have been necessary if AW had used only non-boosted relics :D My current opinion of it is that it is meant purely to curb progress, which seems somewhat bizarre considering it's supposed to provide a bonus. Maybe it's meant as an alternative for people unwilling to build AW?
 

Deleted User - 50840

Guest
The need to click the barracks after troops are done is bad.
Not bad at all. The train troops quest has now become much easier to complete. No more having it active while waiting for troops to finish training. Now you can let your barracks train for many hours and let your troops stack up ready for collection, then cycle to the train troops quest and collect your troops :)
 

DeletedUser1316

Guest
Oh, please, please, please get rid of having to click on the barracks to collect troops!!!!

Hi Sentry29 -

Can you provide an explanation of what you don't like about the feature, please?

Thanks!
 

DeletedUser1295

Guest
On clicking the Barracks to collect troops:
I personally like it... especially when I just encountered a new quest asking to produce a certain amount of troops :p - the troops will be added to the quest after clicking the collect sign ;)

Also, it only FEELS as an extra click, while in reality it isn't - after all one would need to click the Barracks anyways whenever wanting to check for empty slots - imho it is an extra feature to remind players they can start making more troops... instead of waiting for for the zzz sign :p

After all: The zzz sign would only show when production was completely finished - now the collect icon lets you know you have an empty slot :)

P.S. The next slot will continue training troops even while the currently finished one is still waiting to be collected! Unless of course the next training slot is empty....
 
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DeletedUser643

Guest
ok ... 3 issues with latest update.
- The need to click the barracks after troops are done is bad.
- The troop type icons are ugly compared to the old ones. Why did they change?
- notification bug is back. After going to other screens and back to city view the old notification number reappears.

On clicking the Barracks to collect troops:
I personally like it... especially when I just encountered a new quest asking to produce a certain amount of troops :p - the troops will be added to the quest after clicking the collect sign ;)

Also, it only FEELS as an extra click, while in reality it isn't - after all one would need to click the Barracks anyways whenever wanting to check for empty slots - imho it is an extra feature to remind players they can start making more troops... instead of waiting for for the zzz sign :p

After all: The zzz sign would only show when production was completely finished - now the collect icon lets you know you have an empty slot :)

P.S. The next slot will continue training troops even while the currently finished one is still waiting to be collected! Unless of course the next training slot is empty....

Ok, The click thing i understand and can appreciate for this issue.
I still don't like the new icons for troops and their effects.
Regarding the notification bug ... it's not the same bug .... The notification are no longer chronological, so when you see a number and click to open window, you need to click to the other pages to find a bold notification to mark it as read. Once that is done the number does not reappear. But the fact notification are no longer chronological is a small bug.
 

Tonton-des-bois

Illusionist
I'm more intersted in keeping my boosted relics that will increase my productions from more to more and long term
Than having even a big boost but for a short time at that cost...

There is a point where we aren't able to win fights and we have to negotiate all new encounters, so, wasting boosted relics doesn't look a good idea to me. It would be 3 steps forward, 3 steps back and I prefer "One Step Beyond !" ♪♫♪♪♫ :rolleyes:
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I wonder why the magic academy doesn't just let people convert non boosted relics into boosted relics, or make non boosted relics capable of boosting other production types when combined, similar to systems in fighting games when you combine gem types to make more powerful gems. For instance, wood relics could increase supplies production when combing 4 of them. Then you'd need 4 of the enhanced wood relics to forge a relic of the next tier and so forth. I doubt anyone would be complaining if the effects created were permanent.
 

DeletedUser1224

Guest
I feel we should be able to sell the Magic Academy - just like the Martial Monastery, Crystal Lighthouse etc. Click here if you agree - at least then we can reclaim the wasted 5x5 space for something that is useless and build something useful on it.
 

DeletedUser1380

Guest
Without having the faculties to figure this out mathematically, I'm actually wondering if building a manufactory and/or culture in the space required by the academy doesn't provide better bonuses?
I have worked this out and I hate to say it, but the results are not good.

A supplies spell provides 250% more supplies for 2 hours, takes 16 hours to produce costing 2 relics.

These numbers are taken from my level 8 workshops in my Elven city.

Knowing that you are highly unlikely to be able to collect and re-start a production within one second, I have therefore removed one production run out, for example, in 2 hours you can collect a 9hr production, start a 1hr production, collect that, and start another 1 hr production, but the spell will have worn off before you are able to collect the 2nd 1hr production and so it won't be boosted.

With that in mind:
3250 supplies gained at 23 x 5 min productions after 1 x 9h production
2799 supplies gained at 7 x 15min productions after 1 x 9h production
2028 supplies gained at 1 x 1hr productions after 1 x 9h production
2460 supplies gained at 1 x 3hr production after 1 x 9h production

Most players are unlikely to use 5min productions so using the 7 x 15 min productions, I'd consider my 2 relics and 16 hours of waiting more valuable than 2799 supplies.

In the same 5x5 space I could fit 2 workshops which, using 1 x 9 hr, 2 x 3hr, 3 x 15min productions I could generate 5188 supplies.

In addition, the Magic Academy holds no point value and so won't contribute to your ranking, all in all, it is not worth the space it takes up, nor the time investment for the potential rewards, placing one in your city would in fact hinder you more than help you.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
In addition to (and inspired by ;)) what Mike wrote above, here is my analysis on the effects/benefit of the supply boost spell provided through the academy. This is entirely based on the information available in the wiki and my own lvl 15 elven workshops.​

Comparing the use of a spell on a 1 day production with a 9 hour production

We're going to try to get the maximum out of this spell, so we'll boost a level 15 elven workshop just before a one day production has completed. This gives us 10150 supplies upon collection. Thereafter, we'll produce 15 minute productions until the spell depletes, of which we can make a maximum of 5495 supplies (7x 785).

The grand total is 15645 supplies and it would take us 26 hours to make. Unless you actually plan on going away for an entire day – this is actually quite inefficient. Here's why:

Let's activate the spell just before a 9 hour production completes (which is what most players likely use during a normal day (ex. while at work) or over night/ whenever one goes to sleep). Upon collection we now 'only' receive 6925 supplies. After completing a maximum of seven 15 minute productions until the spell wears off, we'll have a grand total of 12420 supplies. But hang on! Isn't that less than the first example? Yes, but not when considering that you had 15 hours prior to setting that 9 day production to produce supplies at any rate of your liking in comparison to having set a 1 day production. To stick with a simple and plausible calculation, let's assume we completed one 9h production and two 3h productions before setting that 9h production we'd later cast the spell on. The total of supplies you've now produced equals: 18390 (that's nearly 3k more supplies than the 1-day method!)

We can therefore continue to follow the strategy of shorter productions being the most lucrative – regardless of the use of spells or not. This assumes however, that you have the chance to collect finished productions and set new ones roughly at the time of their completion of course.


Comparing the use of a spell on a 9 hour plus 7x 15 minute productions with building a level 15 elven workshop instead of the academy (a little more detailed than Mike and using one level 15 workshop instead of two level 8 workshops)​

As this spell takes 16h to produce before the next can begin production, we have a 16h time frame to complete supply productions in our eleven level 15 workshop before the potential 2h bonus of said spell would actually come into effect for the first time we make this spell. Thereafter the time frame would be reduced to 14 hours (as we can use the spell while already producing the next, decreasing the time in between the use of the next spell if used consecutively). For the sake of simplicity and plausibility, let's go with a 9h, 3h and two 1h productions during this time frame of 14h for our additional workshop. This would give us a total of 6026 supplies. As we're not limited to collecting productions within exactly 2 hours without using a spell, we can actually complete eight 15 minute productions in ~2h. Using a spell, that is indeed impossible to do, even if we're just 5-10 seconds past the 2h time limit – the spell will always have worn off before we manage to click that 8th production.

Now to compare the benefit (if any) the spell gives us with just having one extra workshop instead, we need to take into consideration the following:

a) In either scenario, we have a level 15 workshop producing supplies at a 9 hour cycle, and 8x 15 minute productions thereafter (however the last 15 minute production wouldn't be boosted when using a spell).

b) We therefore have one completely additional workshop! This means that all of the supplies this workshop is producing are to be considered a bonus.

c) The bonus received through the spell is thus actually just the 150% additional supplies we collect during it's duration of 2 hours.​

The numbers:

With an additional workshop we would produce a grand total of 8538 bonus supplies.
2770+1600+2*828+8*314=8538

With the use of a spell we would receive a grand total of 7452 bonus supplies.
2770*1.5+7*314*1.5=7452


The conclusion:

The additional workshop wields more supplies, without the cost of any relics (don't forget building the academy costs boosted ones!). In addition, there is currently a soft cap on how many spells can be produced and thus used, while the workshop will always produce supplies and you can theoretically even more than triple the amount of bonus supplies received through the use of shorter productions.


So why build an academy?

Despite the above, there are still two huge benefits the academy grants you that we have not taken into consideration.

1) The use of one spell can almost grant you the same number of supplies as an entire workshop, without the cost of population or culture. This could allow to upgrade buildings to higher levels in your city, or the need of one or even two less residences and build a culture building in its/their place. Thus granting you a significant increase in culture that may just grant you a higher culture boost. (One less workshop + one/two less residence/s = potential space for one academy costing 0 population and 0 culture plus 1 or more culture buildings of your choosing.)

2) You're not fixed on only increasing your supply production, but can also boost your goods production in a single manufactory without the need to tear down the workshop and build a manufactory in its stead. Plus, you can now place a temporary boost on any non-boosted manufactory. This is extremely useful should you lack a specific good due to insufficient trading partners and choose to produce it yourself instead.​

A message to the devs:

The biggest down side is the soft cap and difficulty of gaining relics! Therefore relics should become easier to acquire and certainly not be limited. I'm confident the devs have a plan to eradicate this issue through a further new feature (like that competition/event previewed), and at the very least let us know about it very soon. Just telling the community that it will be possible to permanently and continuously gain relics through other means than encounters at some point in the future would already suffice.

Thanks for taking the time to read this book of mine. :)

~ Valerius
 
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DeletedUser1224

Guest
In addition to (and inspired by ;)) what Mike wrote above, here is my analysis on the effects/benefit of the supply boost spell provided through the academy. This is entirely based on the information available in the wiki and my own lvl 15 elven workshops.​

Comparing the use of a spell on a 1 day production with a 9 hour production



A message to the devs:

The biggest down side is the soft cap and difficulty of gaining relics! Therefore relics should become easier to acquire and certainly not be limited. I'm confident the devs have a plan to eradicate this issue through a further new feature (like that competition/event previewed), and at the very least let us know about it very soon. Just telling the community that it will be possible to permanently and continuously gain relics through other means than encounters at some point in the future would already suffice.

Thanks for taking the time to read this book of mine. :)

~ Valerius



Thanks for this write up Valerius, I still don't see the value of this unit. It's a waste of a 5x5 space and certainly doesn't provide anything of value to people playing in an active fellowship. This unit would benefit solo players more.

I feel we should be able to sell off the Magic Academy - just like the Ancient wonders, instead of being stuck with something we don't want.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I think I read in the beta forum that the devs plan to make relics easier to obtain, but if this will involve a competition, it still will only be beneficial to people winning said competition, or am I wrong? In the beta forum I also discovered that we will be able to upgrade the academy, but after level 2 it will cost diamonds.

Irrespective of this, I personally feel that the building should have been added at the same time as said feature, and still struggle to understand what would be wrong with having the academy craft more powerful relics with permanent bonuses. It seems to me the devs are pre-emptively making relics dwindle in preparation for being able to acquire more, when their acquisition could have remained as is had the academy and wonders been designed to fit that game's current structure. In view of what @Valerius said, that does make sense, but again, for most players having a huge building providing temporary boosts via a mammoth detour doesn't appear to provide a vast benefit in comparison to the tried and tested method.
 

damon

Adventurer
I have to say that this thread is less informative than the daily mirror. Sorry Aider and Amy but your comments are made through cotton wool.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
One thing is bugging me. Well, not only one, but ... Anyway, since the devs decided to make the Magic Academy not cost relics to build after feedback in the beta forum *why was it released requiring relics* on the "live" game? Surely the point in releasing in beta first is to release a clean version to the live game without faffing around that will just cause complaints. Not to mention that in cases such as the magic academy, which seems really pointless to a lot of people, an explanation as to its *longterm* benefits and an actual interest in feedback would seem beneficial. Failing to do this makes the entire concept of a beta version farcical, as does the alleged interest in player feedback. I can't get rid of the feeling that the magic academy is the harbinger of significant game changes we are being kept in the dark about.
 

DeletedUser1539

Guest
The reviews from Valerius, Wolf and Slotharingia are (quite) informative about this Magic Academy. It bugs me if I should complete it in the chapter and Build it or just leave it for a while until this issue is solved. :confused: :D

Relics are precious and hard to get as you go explore more in the world map.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
@Bloody Valkyrie, I wouldn't advise building the academy right now to be honest. As of version 1.0 (which has been released on beta) it appears the MA will not cost boosted relics to build, saving you 12 relics. In addition, there will be chests to collect within the tech tree (for every advanced scouting research completed) giving away free spells. You won't need an academy to use these free spells, only to make new ones once you've run out.

How long it will take until v1.0 hits the live servers I really can't say. Equally, there is a chance some things will change as well. Personally, I will be holding off building this academy until it costs zero relics to construct though.

~ Valerius
 
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