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Upcoming Tournament Changes June 2021

zgniniarT

Novice
Fine. But how exactly does that solve the described problem? I produce CC spells only for event quests.
As long as i can't skip unwanted relics somehow or the needs for most produced spells are rotated or other useful sinks are given i will be forced to do tournament points for relics i don't need.
 

TheMekon

Novice
Being a relatively new player myself (Chapter 3), knowing you could gear up production and armies for a specific relic tournament gave a sense of purpose to the process. It also allowed you to focus on your boosted goods while still gaining the other relics through regular scouting.

This new multi-relic system within the tournament doesn't assist new players at all. In fact, it hinders them because they need to scout a minimum of 9 marble specific provinces to receive each of the relics in the sequence.

he required relics were changed. No spell asks for the same relic as you use for crafting CC. (There used to be an overlap, but I won’t tell you where, because I craft just CC all the time.)
As to @FieryArien's statement on the relic requirements changing. That hasn't happened as of an hour ago. There are still overlaps on relics required and relics that aren't used at all.

When I look in my MA for each of the items requirements, these are the relics that I need.

PP = 1 Marble, 1 Silk.
EE = 1 Marble, 1 Gem
MM = 2 Silk, 2 Gem
IM = 2 Marble, 1 Gem
CC = 1 Steel, 1 Crystal, 1 Elixir

Plank, Dust and Scroll, which are my boosted goods aren't used by the magic academy.

And talking to members of my fellowship, over time, the number of relics you gain will never get used up, they just accumulate.

If there's a choice between keeping this new system and returning to the old way, I vote to revert back to how it was. If you want to give new players an easier method of gaining relics, then why not give them double for each location they scout in the first chapter? This would certainly give them the boost they need without being detrimental to all the other players who—though they may have had the occasional struggle—managed to collect the relics they needed most.
 

Killiak

Summoner
Personally I will have no issue, due to having been in the game long enough.

In terms of spell production it's not great for people who are starting out and are still low on spells, and the distribution of the relics seems off because of some relics being used, and others still collecting dust.

A solution for a perceived problem, whilst not really a solution.
 

elfkeldorn

Alchemist
I think the KP change is a big improvement. It means that in fellowships with a fairly typical set of KP message threads it will be easier for players who are research blocked to use their tourney KP in the threads
 

Deleted member 10929

Guest
There's also another point missed in this; A part of the players go for a specific number of provinces or points to reach every tournament.

This change doesn't matter for them. It matters even less now the MM spell relics demand has been changed. I was constantly running low on Elixir relics, so now i don't have to worry about that anymore. I don't have to wait 9 weeks to get a refill. I get it every week now.

So to sum it up from what was just written; The tournaments are completely the same EVERY week to those players. The only difference is the difficulty in them regarding which troops is mostly used and therefor what booster buildings to place a.s.o.
 

Takarakitty

Novice
I'm fine with the reduction in spell cost, however, what is the point of having a specific tournament type if there was no boost to those relics. The previous method you always could count on the tournament, time your fellowship accordingly to tackle them. With this new method it is a massive detriment to those who were already playing the game and getting hit hard with the cost of the old requirements to the point where you have very little relics of that specific type. The only save grace was the guarantee that you could recover them in the cycle of tournaments which allowed you to continue to build. With this change, not only are you extremely limited, your forced to acquire relics that you have already maxed out just to even have a slim chance of getting 1-4 relics of the type you need. This only cuts growth in the existing player base and change the game making it a slog of a grind. As i said the reduction of the cost of the spells was an excellent idea, however, the change in tournament is one that had the potential of crippling the current players and turning their projected growth into a slow slog.

I severly sugguest returning tournaments to their previous style.
 

m4rt1n

Mentor
The KP spread is one thing that's OK. It's now impossible to receive less KP than you did previously, doing the same provinces. The rewards in provinces 1-9 are split a bit differently and are now slightly more. In provinces 10+ you get 1KP per province in rounds 1, 3 and 4. You get 4KP per province in rounds 2 and 5. Weirdly, round 6 is exactly the same as in the old system.
Except the 6kp for province 9, that is now 4kp so unless I missed something 2kp down.
 

Sir Derf

Artisan
Now all tournaments are basically the same will the game also stop calling a tournament by a relic type?
i.e. Does next weeks Steel tournament just become next weeks tournament?
Except they're not all the same.

If you play the same number of provinces and rounds in two consecutive tourneys, you don't get the exact same number and type of relics both times. You get the same numbers of relics in total, and the same pattern of number of relics, but not same total slate.

It is still useful to have differentiating names for the different tourneys.

A 'Marble Tourney' is no longer a 'Tourney that only gives Marble Relics'; it is now 'a Tourney that gives a sequence of Relics that starts with a Marble Relic'.
 

elfkeldorn

Alchemist
I think that once people get used to the system it will work well.

As each province in the tournament returns the same type of relic, then what people interested in a particular relic can do is fight every province in the first round out to the province(s) with the relics that they are interested in. Then in the second round onwards they can fight only the provinces with the relics they want or perhaps the easy inner ones plus selected provinces from further out. I think in the longer run it will allow people to get what they want at a more steady rate than before with it all averaging out to what they used to get anyway.

Experienced players will just have to be ready to advise inexperienced ones about how to do things as it's a bit counterintuitive.

So well done Inno. With the changes to the KP distribution making the progresion smoother, I think this is an overall win in the long term.
 

rock stream

Conjurer
The marble tournament formerly know as the marble tournament (where you got marble relics) has changed.
This change is to fix a problem that didn't exist.
Is punitive for new players as it will take longer to get relics to increase their boosts and gain the benefit.
Restricts game play strategic and funnels players to play the same.
Leaves the MA to solely produce CC's for crafting.
The tournaments have been changed but not the MA relic requirements.
The international server is now a testing server similar to Beta but for only big problems.
INNO's addiction to diking around is on full display
What I don't see is how this is going to make them more rubies
For a more robust review of (the no need to announce) change, I is suggest that you look at https://en.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/changes-to-tournament-system.14627/
 

Laurelin

Conjurer
The only difference is the difficulty in them regarding which troops is mostly used and therefor what booster buildings to place a.s.o.
This! - how to earn enough of the Relics I actually need (in my case, only my Boost+2, for producing CCs) - without enough Booster buildings - is the biggest problem I foresee, with the now-randomised nature of Enemy Units making very little difference (to me, in Woodelves) between the Tournament types as they stand; none of them is a realistic proposition without Booster buildings, for me. This will be the case for the foreseeable future, too, since it will be several Chapters until I have any advanced Troops beyond Barracks Units, of which only LR (Archers) and HR (Golems) are very useful nowadays, with Mages (Elven Sorceresses) in a poor second place (unlike Human Priests), reducing to actually unusable if not supported by a 5-day MMM Booster. Cerberus (my only other viable 3* Unit) is only somewhat useful in maybe one battle out of 20, and Heavy Melee (Treants at 3*, or even Vallorians at 1*, as mine are) are now completely useless in Tourney/Spire because they almost never actually reach the Enemy to do any damage - again, due to the (annoying) system of randomised Enemy Unit types very often featuring LR and/or Mages in amongst those types which HM might be able to defeat. So Archers and Golems it is, fight after fight, no matter which Tournament type; they're all much the same, to me.

But to get back on track: surely I can't be the only player who doesn't have enough 5-day Booster buildings to be able to put in the same effort every week, as opposed to making a greater effort on three 'push' weeks out of every nine? The number of Booster buildings in my Crafting rotation has constantly declined over the past six months (with no change in my Crafting habits/frequency) - from seeing one or two of each type (UUU, ELR, and MMM) each week, to seeing about one of each type, and now to seeing maybe one or two (of ALL types, not of EACH type) - or sometimes none at all - each week. I once had over a dozen of each type in stock; I now have only two of each, and that's happened while using the 3-of-9-weeks 'push' system, so how will I be able to stretch so few Boosters over the entire nine-week cycle, all the time? Again for emphasis: my Troops are too poor at my level to fight without Booster buildings to the level required to earn enough Relics, with Catering being too expensive as an alternative (especially without a complete City re-spec, which I do not consider should be required - both Combat and Catering should be valid choices).

At the moment I don't have a problem with Pet Food (although I know others have low stocks), but again, if I'm going to need to use at least three per week (Fire Phoenix only), I soon will have a problem with that, too, since I don't see as many as that per week in my Crafting rotation, either.

The fact that I now need to fight much higher Provinces than my current Troops can cope with, in order to selectively earn only the Relics I need every week (as opposed to earning those Relics in every Province, at every star/Round level, every third week) only makes this problem worse.

My usual Tourney ability is to do the first 10 Provinces to either four or five stars/Rounds (i.e. before Province 11, in which the Enemy Units become all 3*, which is beyond the ability of my non-Specialist Troops to oppose past star/Round Two or so), then to go up to the second star/Round in Provinces 11-20. This covers the necessary 1600-2000 points per week. On my 'push' weeks, though, I do more Rounds - solely for the Boost+2 Relics, as stated - but still, I can't sustainably go beyond Province 20, since the Squad Sizes then become unwinnable to fight and too expensive to Cater.

This week, in order to earn the Relics I need, I have needed to go to four stars/Rounds of the first 10 Provinces, as usual. But at that point the problem sets in, because the rotation in higher Provinces through all nine Relic types (only three of which I need) means that I have needed to go to much higher Provinces than usual - again, for this week, but all weeks will have the same issue, more or less. The Relics I need are Steel, Scrolls, and Elixir, and this week those have been winnable in Provinces 2, 5, 7, 11, 14, 16, 20, 23, and 25. This means that instead of earning enough Relics in the Provinces without 3* Enemies and huge Squad Sizes, I have needed to fight - up to the 4th star/Round level - in six Provinces with 3* Enemies - including very high-level Provinces (23 and 25) which have been, in the most part, unwinnable via Combat due to either/or/both the difficult random mixture of Enemy types and the very large Squad Sizes and so have required Catering instead - with the average cost per Encounter at those very high Province levels (which I'd never normally attempt in the now not-so-new Tournament system of 2020) being three days'-worth of Goods each. This is either fully or verging closely upon unsustainable, depending upon which Goods are asked for (T1 is the commonest and most expensive, especially because the Spire demands it in large quantities as well - and I am already running six max-levelled T1 Manufactories).

Without using 5-day Booster buildings every week (vs once every three weeks), I simply won't be able to maintain my Crafting usage of Boost+2 Relics, so the stock I have been very slowly building up - I have only recently acquired 500 of each Boost+2 Relic (18+ months after City start) - will begin to decline, leading to my not even having enough for a full Boost once I reach Ascended Goods. I don't even Craft 24/7 (far from it), as I know some players do, so I'm hardly an aggressive Crafter, either - some days I find nothing I want to Craft at all.

The game designers have intentionally moved Crafting (and the Spire, of course; they are closely linked) into an ever more central position in the game, to the point where it (and the Spire...) are becoming more or less the main focus of many players; the present Event's Grand Prize buildings' productions are a ready illustration of this. To decide now, after having done so, to make the Tournament - which is the only reliable way to acquire the Relics which Crafting demands - too difficult for many players to sustain without Booster buildings which are, at best, only randomly obtained, is a thoughtless move at best, and an underhand one at worst. Either way, I am sure there are better ways - or at least more equitable, for all of the playerbase - to provide new players with a more steady supply of Boosted Relics and/or KP, if that is indeed the intention of this change.

And if anyone considers that Spire-sourced Dwarven Armourers are the solution, well: I'm lucky to win one every 4-6 weeks with two floors per week cleared; three-floor clearance costs me 10-12 days' Goods (Troops too weak to fight beyond mid-Stage Two) and is, once again, unsustainable - if I'd even win any more DAs that way anyway, since it's all random, after all - and my luck in the Spire is very poor, to say the least, and has been since I left the early Chapters of the game (post-Ch.V or so). But again, a subject for another post, if ever.

Moving on, then: changing the Relics required for non-CC Enchantments (apparently all now Boost+1?) will have no effect at all as far as I am concerned, and apart from those players who rely upon frequently producing MMs (which I certainly don't mean to trivialise), little effect upon anyone else beyond the game's earliest Chapters, either, since anyone who is a reasonably keen (1600+ points per week) Tourney player will have so many of the other types of Enchantment coming in from both Tourney and other sources (NH, Events) that I can't imagine anyone who is into the Guest Races actually needing to make any of those Enchantments very often, if at all. I certainly don't, and I have 500+ PoP and 300+ EE in stock already, with the only one I ever produce, since it's not a main Tourney prize, being the IM Spell - although I doubt whether most players, who typically log in more often than once every 24 hours, need to use many of those.

Like many others here, I can't understand why, if a change to Enchantments was to be made at all, there is still no use for Boosted Relics, which are the one type which just about everyone past Chapter V has in excess. Why not, for example, set the cost of Enchantments at two or three Relics each, and then allow players to simply choose which Relics they'd prefer to use, so that early-game players could save their Boosted Relics, but those who have a huge stockpile of them (read: everyone else...) could actually use them for something other than the (rare) levelling-up of an AW or two...?

In summary : I believe that this new Tournament system will only work out to be even somewhat comparable to the old system, in terms of earning the same number of needed Relics (Boost+2 for me; perhaps other types for other players; but what's for sure is that nobody past the very early Chapters needs all nine types, over and over again) if the Crafting rotation is adjusted so that it reliably offers at least one each, per week, of the three types of 5-day Booster buildings - or if another, reliable in-game source of these buildings is provided (i.e. NOT yet another RNG-based system, and NOT only cash-purchasable, either!). Of course, reducing the overall Tournament difficulty - or at least altering the random mixture of Enemy Units, so that the most difficult/costly combinations (for players without high-level Troops) are removed - would be another solution, as would significantly lowering the currently very high Catering costs, but I won't be holding my breath for any of those... /sigh
 
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Deleted member 10929

Guest
I hear you @Laurelin :)

But you also missed my point ;)

"There's also another point missed in this; A part of the players go for a specific number of provinces or points to reach every tournament."

I'm one of those players. And i might have more time to play and/or be a more optimized player. I have no problems at all keeping goods or troops. I just twist and turn what's needed to meet my demands. Before taking a very long break, i only catered. All the way to ch15. And that was in the old tournament. I didn't do much Spire then, didn't think it was worth it.

Returning 1.5 years later changes to both the Spire and Tournament has been made. Now the Spire actually looked interesting because there was FS prizes to win. It's hard for me to talk about the changes to the Tournament because i shifted from catering to auto-fighting. I was tired of having to produce the insane amounts of goods and i found out that it was actually cheaper and easier. I had enough Magic Residences left when i returned (i deleted most buildings when i left the game) so it took a couple of weeks to get my military up to the usual 10 provinces, 6 rounds.

I have never run out of troops. Even now when i do 24 provinces, 6 rounds. It's closer now because i have entered ch16. When i came back i was a the first research of ch15. I have also placed and upgraded a good deal of AW's for military, so the fights now demand a good deal more troops. But i just keep upgrading what's needed :)

And then what you're talking about is also regarding the changes to the tournament last year, the randomness of the troop types. And yes, that's annoying. If i think it's going to kill most of my troops i just cater it. I started out catering the Spire too, but 3rd level costs way to much, so i started trying fight there too, and it's easier than i thought. And there i have an advantage since i have all 3* troops. But i can still do it in my ch 12 city as well up to 3rd level where i switch to convincing(catering). I have only just entered, so i only have Barracks troops at 3* + Cerberus and Banshee, the rest is 2* and frog only 1.

As i use my goods for catering once in a while and also need goods for research i use a good deal of MM spells, so i'm very happy with the changes to the relics needed. I was hitting the bottom doing only 10 provinces, 6 rounds only doing CC's. So now doing 24 provinces changes that of course, but not having to use the same relic now when i make MM's is good. And i craft almost all the time.

I took my time studying and reading about how it all worked and i sat out to be able to do the fighting without any boosters at all, besides the AW's which on their own give something. and they are not that high yet. Most is between level 6-11. I have the first 2 months i was back won 6 Dwarvens, but didn't know that the buildings in MA was different, so i missed crafting many of them. But now i craft them all. And i have started to use them as well.

Regarding the differences in tournaments, i see a difference in which troops i use most. This last one here was mostly Mages and then some Light Range. But i also so a difference between my ch12 and ch16 city. It's very not the same troop types, thought this one was more the same. But mostly i need to train a completely other set of troops in my ch12 city than my ch16.

So to sum it all up. My point in my comment was this:
"There's also another point missed in this; A part of the players go for a specific number of provinces or points to reach every tournament."

And for that matter i have no idea to how the relics are distributed now vs. before. I just don't look at it. It's not important to me. I only looked at it before because the relics needed for CC and MM was the same, so i ran low and sometimes out of them.

And therefor i'm also NOT commenting on what smaller and new-started cities might have of problems adjusting to this new way of distribute the relics.
 

Gargon667

Mentor
There aren't extra KP... well, actually there are a few extra, but not many. You get 1KP per province in round 1, but only 4 in round 2.
So I got an extra 84 KP this week :D Not that I have any use for those nowadays....
 

Gargon667

Mentor
This is a teething issue for people who moce from the old to the new system.
If you consistenly play in the tournaments over a 9 week period you will get the same amount of relics as before.
But you have already played the old game of going all out in "bonus weeks" and build up your relic bonus that way.

The idea is if you started today, you will see that your bonus production will go up a bit every week, all 3 bonusses will.
Instead of 1 bonus each 9 weeks for 3 weeks out of 9 weeks as you have 3 bonusses.

This for a player that starts today should lead to a more gradual and equal rise of its bonus production over all 3 goods. instead of having a 200% marble bonus and a 500% gem bonus.
I would say you will actually get MORE relics in the new system, because playing a higher average costs less than playing 3 big and 6 small tourneys for the same number of relics.

But you will also get fewer of the relics you want, instead you increase all the ones you don´t want. So basically quantity up and quality down.
 

Gargon667

Mentor
I don´t really have much to say on the topic as none of the changes touch me in any way. I have too many of all relics, so I really don´t care about those.
The change of spells not using the same relics as the CCs makes sense in general.

From what I gather it was meant to help newbies? That would make sense, but I don´t see why the provinces 10+ need to be changed in that case? Newbies don´t play those. Since the first 9 provinces have always been different from the rest, why not keep that have the first nine give mixed relics and the rest the namesake relic?

Anyway as I said i have no personal interest in this question.

What I do have an interest in is: give us more ways to use these relics we can get! And if you want to be nice to everybody make them no-name, so people can use the ones they have most of, that way they won´t complain so much about all the useless relics they keep getting, even more so now than before.
 

Sir Derf

Artisan
I would say you will actually get MORE relics in the new system, because playing a higher average costs less than playing 3 big and 6 small tourneys for the same number of relics.
I agree. because what you said is basically "If you do more, you will get more..."
 

Pauly7

Magus
So I got an extra 84 KP this week :D Not that I have any use for those nowadays....
That many? I thought the difference was about 15... I can't be bothered to go back and do the maths. Everything above province 9 is the same, they've taken a few KP away from round 6 and added a few extra elsewhere.
 

CrazyWizard

Shaman
I would say you will actually get MORE relics in the new system, because playing a higher average costs less than playing 3 big and 6 small tourneys for the same number of relics.

But you will also get fewer of the relics you want, instead you increase all the ones you don´t want. So basically quantity up and quality down.
Maybe more relics, maybe not, but the question of many is which relics are relevant.