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Upcoming Spire Improvements

Silmaril

Silmaril

The Mabinogion Wyvern aka The Community Manager
Elvenar Team
Dear Humans and Elves,

Please use this thread to discuss the update to the Upcoming Spire Improvements!

We're looking forward to your feedback!

Kind regards,
Your Elvenar Team
 
Jake65

Jake65

Immortal
Really looking forward to this!
One question (for now, haha), will using a vitality surge on a depleted squad count as still having the squad survive?

Copied from the announcement:
". All Squads that have at least one unit surviving qualify. Thus, you can have unit losses and "damaged" Squads and still achieve a perfect score (perfect = all 5 Squads survive). Just keep a fraction of each Squad alive! "
 
Jake65

Jake65

Immortal
Giraffi said:
Am I missing something, who wants the spire to be a challenge? Not me, that is for sure. Having to do far too much of it as things are going at the moment. There is nothing in what I read that actually shows me how it would be easier for those like me.
Click to expand...
As I understand it, I'm only reading the fighting parts, it will start off easier for everyone (enemy 80% of their normal size).
As your SSV increases each week (as a result of not losing too many squads) the enemy size will increase proportionately but so will the rewards.
Once you hit 1000 SSV the difficulty will be as it is now (100% enemy size). Once you go beyond 1000 then it will become more difficult (with bigger rewards).

I'm going to stick my neck out and predict an up/down cycle occurring. A period of easy wins resulting in increasing your SSV and the difficulty which will increase your losses thereby reducing your SSV to make the fights easier again. Rinse & repeat.

I think the losses/costs will average out over time to be pretty much what they are now but we will gain extra rewards for the time that we're in the +1000 phase. So an effective reward gain with no additional 'cost' to us.

I can't quite figure how it will effect players who just make to the top every week and want to keep this going. Will have to wait and see.
I'm still looking forward to it though :)
 
SkyRider99

SkyRider99

Magus
Bring back more time instants, CCs, and SFs.

Jake65 said:
I think the losses/costs will average out over time to be pretty much what they are now but we will gain extra rewards for the time that we're in the +1000 phase. So an effective reward gain with no additional 'cost' to us.
Click to expand...
I hope you're right @Jake65. I've been nerfed to death too many times by the game to have much optimism. But hope springs eternal. :cool:
 
Romilly

Romilly

Scholar
@Jake65 - a few small corrections - you will not only get more rewards at an SSV of 1000+ than before, but every time you reach the top of the spire, because that is probably the only case you get the additional currency (which hasn't exist before the changes) - and it's not about lost encounters, but about completely destroyed squads (if one archer survives out of 50,000, it still counts as "perfect") - but of course you will have more losses in total if your SSV gets higher and you have to check if a higher SSV or more currency is worth it (it depends on what you want from the spire shop) - yes, it will average out over the time and you can try to reach a high SSV to get more stones or you can avoide those stones and try to purposely push the SSV down to lose less relevant troops - to do this you have to sacrifice irrelevant troops (or lose negotiations)...

...for traders, the SSV has no effect at all - it's about how often the combo was interrupted - regardless of the SSV - negotiations are included in the new SSV value, but only because you always have the choice between fight and negotiate - so you can fight sometimes, even if you've only negotiated for years before - here too, the enemy troop size must be able to be based on a value...

..all statements made by me correspond to my interpretation of the information - I give no guarantee for its accuracy - but I welcome corrections if I am wrong...
 
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Russ129

Russ129

Alchemist
On the mobile version of the game fights are just RNG (no skill whatsoever) and the anyone with the Coldfire phoenix feeding effect active should always get a perfect score as they get free unit regeneration

The new system seems to be inherently unfair to negotiatiors as it is very easy to lose a completion streak especially with 6+ choices. The only way to prevent a negotiation streak from being interrupted is by spending diamonds ... this used to be OK when the the spire was paying a reasonable amount of diamonds back but now 25 a time is prohibitive... perhaps spectral stones could be reworked to grant another round of negotiations instead of satisfying a single spirit????
 
Romilly

Romilly

Scholar
Russ129 said:
Coldfire phoenix
Click to expand...
...you mean the twilight phoenix ;) - it has not been confirmed that recovery will be taken into account...don't forget that the spire gets harder if you always have perfect combat results (not all of the players will be able to handle this) - in my opinion traders are not disadvantaged - just treated differently, which is because you can't compare negotiating with fighting...traders have the advantage that they can immediately earn the maximum (for them) of 6,600 stones, whereas fighters first have to (slowly) increase their SSV - and if not every spire is played, the SSV eventually drops to 500 and it takes accordingly longer until you have around 1250 SSV again - for traders, on the other hand, it doesn't matter how long they take a break - they can immediately get 6,600 (max.) again - and it's not sure, whether you really need that many stones from the spire - that depends on what and how much you want to buy in the spire shop - and you can also get the stones via sapphires and shards...in addition, we will also get the spire wonder and traders can then select a "goods back" effect from the animal spirit - this could be much more worth than the "troop booster" that fighters will get...

...but this is all just speculation - we have to wait until the changes are introduced..

...possible wonder/animal ghost effects...
Turmwunder.png
Turmwunder3.png
 
Hekata

Hekata

Sage
Romilly said:
traders have the advantage that they can immediately earn the maximum (for them) of 6,600 stones
Click to expand...
The explanations we got about negotiations are a bit fuzzy to me:
Here's how I understand it but please tell me if I'm wrong.
To get the max amount of points you'd have to:
Either negotiate all the way up without ever breaking your combo which is almost impossible. It would require the most insane amount of luck, like 1 in a milion odds...
Or you can negotiate some and fight other encounters without breaking the combo. But in that case how many encounters have to be negotiated for it to count for the max points? One could for instance negotiate all but the last encounter of the 1st level and them fight all the way up to the top. If we don't lose any fights, technically the combo is not broken but is it enough for the max points?
 
Romilly

Romilly

Scholar
@Hekata - maybe we can use more than one spectral stone in an encounter in the future - so it wouldn't be almost impossible and we don't know yet how many radiant stones we get, if we break the combo 5-10 times (there are 48 encounters in a full spire run) compared to fighters who have an SSV between 1000 and 1250 - we (and INNO) will have to collect some data on how things will settle down with traders and fighters - only then can we think about adjustments to make it fairer - at the moment I just see the whole thing as a plus, because we definitely get more than without these changes...

..the changes are probably aimed more at bringing more players to the top rather than making more (individual) players rich - and that's a good thing..

Spire run.png
 
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Pauly7

Pauly7

Manipulator of Time
Romilly said:
@Hekata - maybe we can use more than one spectral stone in an encounter in the future - so it wouldn't be almost impossible and we don't know yet how many radiant stones we get
Click to expand...
Surely even if we are allowed to use more than one, the problem will be having enough spectral stones for that to matter. Number of these in my inventory is apparently a closely guarded secret, unless I am in am active yet incomplete Spire, so I have no idea how many I have. I don't remember using one in over a year, but I bet I still have less then 10.
 
Romilly

Romilly

Scholar
Pauly7 said:
but I bet I still have less then 10
Click to expand...
...I have 82 in my biggest city - of course that isn't much, but there are spectral stones in every tome of threefold virtues...+ one in the platoon tome...I got 28 of them in 13 spires with my little EN-Account and there could be a wonder or a event building which spit out some spectral stones - there are different possibilities to get more...
 
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Pauly7

Pauly7

Manipulator of Time
Romilly said:
...I have 82 in my biggest city - of course that isn't much, but there are spectral stones in every tome of threefold virtues...+ one in the platoon tome...I got 28 of them in 13 spires with my little EN-Account and there could be a wonder or a event building which spit out some spectral stones - there are different possibilities to get more...
Click to expand...
Maybe I have more, who knows. It is really bizarre that it is impossible to see the number of stones in the inventory unless you are looking at an active Spire battle. Reminds me of the old days when it was really hard to see the number of blueprints.

I do know that my small city usually only has one or zero. That city has no military and I routinely use my one spectral stone when I have one.
 
Romilly

Romilly

Scholar
Pauly7 said:
It is really bizarre that it is impossible to see the number of stones in the inventory unless you are looking at an active Spire battle
Click to expand...
...yes, they should be shown in Crafting Resources like the Volatile Sigils (or blueprints)...
 
SkyRider99

SkyRider99

Magus
Hekata said:
Either negotiate all the way up without ever breaking your combo which is almost impossible. It would require the most insane amount of luck, like 1 in a milion odds...
Click to expand...
Yeah. That's what has been bothering me too @Hekata. Whenever something is promoted as 'great' or 'fantastic new feature' there is usually a trap that makes it super expensive, or crazy difficult to achieve. We may need to prepare ourselves to be pleasantly surprised though Hek. But I strongly doubt it. :cool:
 
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