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Traveling Merchant and its Benefits

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by SoggyShorts, Nov 29, 2018.

  1. Thagdal

    Thagdal Soothsayer

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2018
    Going back to my original idea of being allowed to craft set buildings and this is why.
    i have 2 of the grand prizes from the harvest krarak and kirit, they would give me:-

    1420 elixir and 2840 dust per day and also 1000 pop and 860 culture. if i could craft the 2 1x1 shrines i would also get 4260 gems and 2 kp (plus the similar in T2 resources.

    Thats why i dont see much point in having a travelling merchant, and if you say have so many of them, that space could be better suited to set buildings than say however many travelling merchants you would need to get a decent amount of T3.
     
  2. m4rt1n

    m4rt1n Necromancer

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2017
    I also like the fact that unlike set buildings I can choose which non-boosted goods to produce and in Arendyll, Gems are a low product especially in my part of the 396 province world, so it has been a real help in the past doing 1x9h and 4-5x3h per day of Gems for free on the size of a builders hut. :)
     
  3. LadyHavva

    LadyHavva Scholar

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2018
    If you need a whole field of them, placing them with just one road square is not very realistic is it? Two would be more realistic.
     
    m4rt1n likes this.
  4. Sir Derf

    Sir Derf Soothsayer

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2018
    Thanks. Lots of information there.

    I would still like to crunch some numbers myself, so I would still be interested in knowing

    1) What is the cost (Gold and Supplies)to produce 3 hour production of Elixir from a Level 15 Elixir Manufactory.
    2) What is the 3 hour production output for a Chapter 5 Travelling Merchant III.
     
  5. m4rt1n

    m4rt1n Necromancer

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2017
    Or you could just craft one, build it and try it out for a week or two, when a game comes to number crunching in my own opinion it looses that special "fun" factor, but that is just me maybe!!!

    I play to escape and relax from the real world. :)

    After all there is no point whatsoever trying to compete with the odd player who has the benefit of diamonds on tap, and I bet everything I have they do not enjoy the challenges of the game near as much as a pauper like me. :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2018
    Lelanya likes this.
  6. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Soothsayer

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2018
    Nope. The idea is that you always have a building on each side of a road. A merchant has a side that is 2 roads long. Therefore it needs half of 2 roads. 0.5x2=1
    So if you had say 6 of them, you would need 6 roads. 3 merchants on each side of road.
     
  7. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Soothsayer

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2018
    @Sir Derf the info you want should be obtainable in elevenarchtect.
    I'd look it up, but I'm on my travel phone
     
  8. Sir Derf

    Sir Derf Soothsayer

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2018
    Thanks, I hadn't paid enough attention to every bell and whistle of elvey-archy...


    By my calculations, a Chapter 5 Traveling Merchant III appears at least 525% efficient compared to an unboosted Level 15 Elixir Manufactory. The EMs 3 hour output of 182 Elixir requires 112.52 squares, which can be accomplished with only 3.57 TM3s in 21.42 squares.

    Suppose you are at end-stage Chapter 5 (This is where I was at when last I was working on my not-yet-finished analysis of production, for my own amusement (I am not addicted, I can stop whenever I want. I just don't want to stop right now.) It’s convenient since everything maxes out at Level 15)


    An unboosted Level 15 Elixir Manufactory takes up 4x5 (20) squares, requires 2,087 Population and 417 Culture, and can produce 182 Elixir/3 hours at a cost of 58,200 Gold/3 hour and 5,820 Supplies/3 hour.

    A Level 15 Workshop produces 128 Supplies/5 minutes, or 4,608 Supplies/3 hours, taking up 4x3 (12) squares, requires 476 Population and 169 Culture. To produce 5,820 Supplies/3 hours requires 1.26 Level 15 Workshops, taking up 15.12 squares and requiring 599.76 Population and 212.94 Culture. (Workshop output at every 3 hours would be significantly more costly, requiring 3.26 Level 15 Workshops, with commensurate increased needs in Residences and Culture)

    A Level 15 Residence provides 420 Population taking up 3x3 (9) squares and requires 118 Culture. 2686.76 (2,087+599.76) Population requires 6.40 Level 15 Residences, taking up 57.6 squares and requires 755.2 Culture.

    A Garden of Harmony provides 2100 Culture taking up 5x6 (30) squares. 1385.14 (417+212.94+755.2) Culture requires 0.66 Gardens of Harmony, taking up 19.8 squares.



    In total, a Level 15 Elixir Manufactory can produce 182 Elixir/3 hours using a total of 112.52 squares (20 Manufactory + 15.12 Workshop + 57.6 Residence + 19.8 Culture).

    In contrast, a Chapter 5 Traveling Merchant III can produce 51 Elixir/3 hours using a total of 2x3 (6) squares, requiring 0 Population, 0 Culture and 0 Supplies. To produce 182 Elixir/3 hours would require 3.57 Chapter 5 Traveling Merchant IIIs, taking up 21.42 squares of Chapter 5 Traveling Merchants.

    I'm also assuming that you have other sources of Gold to pay for the Elixir production, as 58,200 Gold/3 hours would require 12.93 Level 15 Residences, double the Residences needed for the Population to support the Manufactory and Workshops.

    Manufactory-based production (with Residences and Culture), though, can be upgraded as you advance, can be effected by Enchantments, Neighborly Help and other functions, are needed for quest items (produce n 3-hour runs), and influence and are influenced by Ancient Wonders.

    Traveling Merchant based production has to be re-earned at higher chapters to upgrade, are not effected by Enchantments or other functions, can aid in quest items (gain xxx good), and are neutral to Ancient Wonders.
     
  9. LadyHavva

    LadyHavva Scholar

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2018
    But why are you comparing to an unboosted manufactory?
     
  10. FieryArien

    FieryArien Spellcaster

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2018
    Imho, it actually makes sense. Players have different boosts based on their number of relics. If a player is in Dwarves and Sir Derf counted that Traveling Merchant in Dwarves corresponds to at least 525% boost, it’s super easy to compare for that player. :)

    On the other hand, a player in Dwarves who is in a reasonable and helpful fellowship has no reason to be lower than 700% ...
     
  11. Sir Derf

    Sir Derf Soothsayer

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2018
    Because Traveling Merchants don't produce your T1-3 boosted goods.

    For example, my T3 boost is Gems, while my Traveling Merchant III produces either Elixir or Dust.

    And, I did my computations for end-stage Chapter 5, not Dwarves (Chapter 6). I only just advanced to Dwarves.

    By my calculations, a Chapter 6 Traveling Merchant III appears at least 613% efficient compared to an unboosted Level 15 Elixir Manufactory. The EM's 3 hour output of 182 Elixir requires 97.16 squares, which can be accomplished with only 2.64 TM3s in 15.84 squares. While Pop and Culture needs went up, Residence and Culture density improved, resulting in an overall reduced footprint for the same EM, the increased efficiency of the better TM3 is better still.


    Computed at End stage Chapter VI (Dwarves)


    An unboosted Level 15 Elixir Manufactory takes up 4x5 (20) squares, requires 2,087 Population and 417 Culture, and can produce 182 Elixir/3 hours at a cost of 58,200 Gold/3 hour and 5,820 Supplies/3 hour.


    A Level 17 Workshop produces 180 Supplies/5 minutes, or 6,408 Supplies/3 hours, taking up 5x3 (15) squares, requires 660 Population and 325 Culture. To produce 5,820 Supplies/3 hours requires 0.91 Level 17 Workshops, taking up 13.65 squares and requiring 600.6 Population and 295.75 Culture.


    A Level 17 Residence provides 470 Population taking up 2x4 (8) squares and requires 172 Culture. 2687.6 (2,087+600.6) Population requires 5.72 Level 17 Residences, taking up 45.76 squares and requires 983.84 Culture.


    A Temple of the Holy Fire provides 2400 Culture taking up 5x5 (25) squares. 1696.59 (417+295.75+983.84) Culture requires 0.71 Temples of the Holy Fire, taking up 17.75 squares.




    In total, a Level 15 Elixir Manufactory can produce 182 Elixir/3 hours using a total of 97.16 squares (20 Manufactory + 13.65 Workshop + 45.76 Residence + 17.75 Culture).


    In contrast, a Chapter 6 Traveling Merchant III can produce 69 Elixir/3 hours using a total of 2x3 (6) squares, requiring 0 Population, 0 Culture and 0 Supplies. To produce 182 Elixir/3 hours would require 2.64 Chapter 6 Traveling Merchant IIIs, taking up 15.84 squares of Chapter 6 Traveling Merchant IIIs.
     
  12. LadyHavva

    LadyHavva Scholar

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2018
    Yes I know that, but you never build (well not until later chapters with sentient goods and stuff) unboosted manufactories. You just produce your boosted and trade for unboosted.

    But as Arien has stated you can compare to your boost percentage easier this way.
     
  13. Sir Derf

    Sir Derf Soothsayer

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2018
    That works if you have people around you who are willing or capable of trading at sufficient levels for your goods at the rates you wish to offer and in the timeframes you want.

    Or, look at it another way. Don't make unboosted manufactories, trade with your boosted goods, but consider adding a single up-to-date TM taking up a mere 2x3 squares, and consider how much faster your goods will increase on top of trades...
     
  14. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Soothsayer

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2018
    @Sir Derf I believe you forgot roads in your calculations.
    Short side of building divided by 2 because there should be a building on Each side of the road.
    Dont forget the culture gained from that road as well.
     
  15. Sir Derf

    Sir Derf Soothsayer

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2018
    Roads, schmoads. Where we're going, we don't need roads.

    Less forgot than intentionally didn't include, but then accidentally didn't explicitly mention their omission. But, by showing all my work, rather than just gifting the final answer without explanation, you could see what I did and didn't do.

    Count your roads how you will, depending on your building style. Free road or costly road that gives Culture. Road stub that ends on the building, road that ends short with a thin culture at then end, road that goes fully along the short side, or the long side.

    *Edit - Duh! Even if I'm not worrying about the road connection to the EM or TM3, I guess the village of Residences and Workshops need their roads figured in. I'll get on it shortly...
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2018
    SoggyShorts likes this.
  16. Sir Derf

    Sir Derf Soothsayer

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2018
    Reworked assuming 1/2 Road along shorter side of buildings were necessary.

    Chapter V
    182 Elixir/3 hour using 1 EM-15 = 120.3 effective squares
    182 Elixir/3 hour using 3.57 TM3-5s at 24.99 effective squares (and 107.1 Excess Culture)
    TM3 481% effective

    End-stage Chapter V

    An unboosted Level 15 Elixir Manufactory takes up 4x5 (20) squares, requires 2,087 Population, 417 Culture and ½ of 4 Road squares, and can produce 182 Elixir/3 hours at a cost of 58,200 Gold/3 hour and 5,820 Supplies/3 hour.

    A Level 15 Workshop produces 128 Supplies/5 minutes, or 4,608 Supplies/3 hours, taking up 4x3 (12) squares, requires 476 Population, 169 Culture and ½ of 3 Road squares. To produce 5,820 Supplies/3 hours requires 1.26 Level 15 Workshops, taking up 15.12 squares and requiring 599.76 Population, 212.94 Culture and 1.89 Road squares. (Workshop output at every 3 hours would be significantly more costly, requiring 3.26 Level 15 Workshops, with commensurate increased needs in Residences and Culture)

    A Level 15 Residence provides 420 Population taking up 3x3 (9) squares and requires 118 Culture and ½ of 3 Road squares. 2686.76 (2,087+599.76) Population requires 6.40 Level 15 Residences, taking up 57.6 squares and requires 755.2 Culture and 9.6 Road squares.

    Ornate Street squares provide 30 Culture. 13.49 (2+1.89+9.6) Road squares provide 404.7 Culture.

    A Garden of Harmony provides 2100 Culture taking up 5x6 (30) squares and requires no Road squares. 980.44 (417+212.94+755.2-404.7) Culture requires 0.47 Gardens of Harmony, taking up 14.1 squares.


    In total, a Level 15 Elixir Manufactory can produce 182 Elixir/3 hours using a total of 120.31 squares (20 Manufactory + 15.12 Workshop + 57.6 Residence + 13.49 Road + 14.1 Culture).

    In contrast, a Chapter 5 Traveling Merchant III can produce 51 Elixir/3 hours using a total of 2x3 (6) squares, requiring 0 Population, 0 Culture, 1/2 of 2 Road squares and 0 Supplies. To produce 182 Elixir/3 hours would require 3.57 Chapter 5 Traveling Merchant IIIs, taking up 24.99 (21.42+3.57) squares of Chapter 5 Traveling Merchants and Roads, and produces 107.1 Excess Culture.

    Chapter VI (Dwarves)
    182 Elixir/3 hour using 1 EM-15 = 101.5 effective squares
    182 Elixir/3 hour using 2.64 TM3-6s at 18.48 effective squares (and 129.36 excess Culture)
    TM3 549% effective

    Computed at End stage Chapter VI (Dwarves)

    An unboosted Level 15 Elixir Manufactory takes up 4x5 (20) squares, requires 2,087 Population, 417 Culture and ½ of 4 Road squares, and can produce 182 Elixir/3 hours at a cost of 58,200 Gold/3 hour and 5,820 Supplies/3 hour.

    A Level 17 Workshop produces 180 Supplies/5 minutes, or 6,408 Supplies/3 hours, taking up 5x3 (15) squares, requires 660 Population, 325 Culture and ½ of 3 Road squares. To produce 5,820 Supplies/3 hours requires 0.91 Level 17 Workshops, taking up 13.65 squares and requiring 600.6 Population, 295.75 Culture and 1.37 Road squares.

    A Level 17 Residence provides 470 Population taking up 2x4 (8) squares and requires 172 Culture and ½ of 2 Road squares. 2687.6 (2,087+600.6) Population requires 5.72 Level 17 Residences, taking up 45.76 squares and requires 983.84 Culture and 5.72 Road squares.
    Dwarven Street squares provide 49 Culture. 9.09 (2+1.37+5.72) Road squares provide 445.41 Culture.

    A Temple of the Holy Fire provides 2400 Culture taking up 5x5 (25) squares and requires no Road squares. 1251.18 (417+295.75+983.84-445.41) Culture requires 0.52 Temples of the Holy Fire, taking up 13 squares.


    In total, a Level 15 Elixir Manufactory can produce 182 Elixir/3 hours using a total of 101.5 squares (20 Manufactory + 13.65 Workshop + 45.76 Residence + 9.09 Road + 13 Culture).

    In contrast, a Chapter 6 Traveling Merchant III can produce 69 Elixir/3 hours using a total of 2x3 (6) squares, requiring 0 Population, 0 Culture, 1/2 of 2 Road squares and 0 Supplies. To produce 182 Elixir/3 hours would require 2.64 Chapter 6 Traveling Merchant IIIs, taking up 18.48 (15.84+2.64) squares of Chapter 6 Traveling Merchant IIIs and Road, and produces 129 excess Culture.
     
  17. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Soothsayer

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2018
    @Sir Derf how do your numbers compare with the calculator I linked? I'm having g trouble ope ing it on this phone
     
  18. Sir Derf

    Sir Derf Soothsayer

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2018
    Incompatible.

    1) I computed for a single 3 hour production, it does not include that in the choices for "Daily Collection".
    2) I computed assuming 5 minute Workshop outputs, while I think it assumed Workshop outputs that matched their Daily Collections.

    I computed a Chapter 5 EM-15 at using 120.3 squares for a single 3 hour production; it's lowest says 189 squares, using a 9 and 5 3's.

    My computations might not reflect real world usage conditions. However, I think both my choices would have painted the EM in the most favorable light. And the TM3 was still operating around 500% efficient.
     
  19. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Soothsayer

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2018
    Ah yes, I missed the 5m workshop part.
    I prefer real world conditions myself, but I do understand painting things in a favourable light on the "other" side to remove bias for yours though, kudos for that.
     
  20. Sir Derf

    Sir Derf Soothsayer

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2018
    *Edit - Wrong value used, see later post

    Attempted a real-world comparisson.

    Chapter VI (Dwarves)
    1,243 Elixir/day (9-3-3-3-3-3 EM and W) using 1 EM-15 = 173.91 effective squares
    1,243 Elixir/day (9-3-3-3-3-3) using 2.46 TM3-6s at 17.22 effective squares (and 120.54 excess Culture)
    TM3 1010% effective

    Computed at End stage Chapter VI (Dwarves)

    An unboosted Level 15 Elixir Manufactory takes up 4x5 (20) squares, requires 2,087 Population, 417 Culture and ½ of 4 Road squares, and can produce 182 Elixir/3 hours at a cost of 58,200 Gold/3 hour and 5,820 Supplies/3 hour and 333 Elixir/9 hours at a cost of 172,000 Gold/9 hours and 17,200 Supplies/9 hours. Collecting 1 9 and 5 3 hour productions, it can produce 1,243 Elixir/day at a cost of 463,000 Gold/day and 46,300 Supplies/day.

    A Level 17 Workshop produces 2,240 Supplies/3 hours and 3,880 Supplies/9 hours, taking up 5x3 (15) squares, requires 660 Population, 325 Culture and ½ of 3 Road squares. Collecting 1 9 and 5 3 hour productions, it can produce 15,080 Supplies/day. To produce 46,300 Supplies/day requires 3.07 Level 17 Workshops, taking up 46.05 squares and requiring 2,026.2 Population, 997.75 Culture and 4.61 Road squares.

    A Level 17 Residence provides 470 Population taking up 2x4 (8) squares and requires 172 Culture and ½ of 2 Road squares. 4113.2 (2,087+2,026.2) Population requires 8.75 Level 17 Residences, taking up 70 squares and requires 1505 Culture and 8.75 Road squares.

    Dwarven Street squares provide 49 Culture. 15.36 (2+4.61+8.75) Road squares provide 752.64 Culture.

    A Temple of the Holy Fire provides 2400 Culture taking up 5x5 (25) squares and requires no Road squares. 2,167.11 (417+997.75+1505-752.64) Culture requires 0.90 Temples of the Holy Fire, taking up 22.5 squares.


    In total, a Level 15 Elixir Manufactory can produce 1,243 Elixir/day (collecting 1 9 and 5 3 hour productions) using a total of 173.91 squares (20 Manufactory + 46.05 Workshop + 70 Residence + 15.36 Road + 22.5 Culture).

    In contrast, a Chapter 6 Traveling Merchant III can produce 69 Elixir/3 hours and 161 Elixir/9 hour using a total of 2x3 (6) squares, requiring 0 Population, 0 Culture, 1/2 of 2 Road squares and 0 Supplies. Collecting 1 9 and 5 3 hour productions, it can produce 506 Elixir/day. To produce 1,243 Elixir/day would require 2.46 Chapter 6 Traveling Merchant IIIs, taking up 17.22 (14.76+2.46) squares of Chapter 6 Traveling Merchant IIIs and Road, and produces 120.54 excess Culture.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2018

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