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Traveling Merchant and its Benefits

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by SoggyShorts, Nov 29, 2018.

  1. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Soothsayer

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2018
    It is pretty fair, most players just don't know how good travelling merchants are.
    The travelling merchant 3 makes more goods per square than a t3 factory does because it does not require culture, supplies or population
     
    m4rt1n likes this.
  2. TheBonker

    TheBonker Seeker

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2018
    Curious as to the values of the Merch3 only used the first one and wasnt too impressed, as I had established manufactures by then
     
  3. Thagdal

    Thagdal Soothsayer

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2018
    im in dwarves and the merch 3 will give 69/3hr and 161/9hr. i dont see the point of it unless you like building non boosted goods. :)
     
    TheBonker likes this.
  4. TheBonker

    TheBonker Seeker

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2018
    Thanks Thgdal im also in dwarves I doubt ill be getting one, but the knowledge is very helpful :)
     
    Thagdal likes this.
  5. FieryArien

    FieryArien Spellcaster

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2018
    With what are you and TheBonker actually comparing it? I won’t count it for you, there were others who did it before and I’m too lazy. ;-) However, if you are serious about evaluating the Traveling Merchant, you need to know:

    3h production of your boosted manufactory and ALL the space it requires to be built (manufactory itself, space occupied by required people, space occupied by required culture, also space occupied by culture required for the residences) and also the space required to get the supplies for the 3h production (workshop and its supporting buildings). Of course you deal in fractions of buildings here, not rounded to whole buildings. ;-) Oh and there are also roads needed to connect manufactories and residences. Not many, but they should be counted too. Space is the most expensive resource in Elvenar ...

    When you gather all that info, you can count real production per square. Count also the per square production of the Travelings Merchant. Now you are comparing apples to apples. Hope this helps.
     
  6. Thagdal

    Thagdal Soothsayer

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2018
    well for a start you need to build boosted manufactories, so that point is moot. i can put a trade up for 69 or 161 non boosted goods and have them picked up in a few seconds. so whats the point of waiting 3 or 9 hour when you can get it just like that.
     
  7. TheBonker

    TheBonker Seeker

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2018
    Im not comparing it to any building, was curious of the numbers and frankly not worth the space for me id rather use the space for culture and trade out in the fellowship for 3500 T3 like for like trade, thats roughly what a 3hr production is. sq for sq doesn't work in this matter all I was curious about is how much the Merch produces, hope this explains it
     
  8. FieryArien

    FieryArien Spellcaster

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2018
    A misunderstanding than. Sorry. I had a feeling you were complaining about inefficiency of Traveling Merchant compared to your own manufactories. However, the truth is, neither of you actually used that expression. ;-) Your view on Traveling Merchant comes from totally different angle than mine.
     
  9. Killiak

    Killiak Illusionist

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2016
    The merchants can be efficiënt, but you need a lot of them. Then there is also the matter of ranking points.
    Plus they take no population or culture, so several AW don't trigger on them.

    Square for square comparisons are useful, but they don't take everything into account either :)
     
    Lelanya likes this.
  10. FieryArien

    FieryArien Spellcaster

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2018
    This AW remark caught my attention and I’d love to know more. Would you care to explain, please? Possibly Dwarven Bulwark came to my mind (I suppose it doesn’t increase Traveling Merchant’s output, or does it?), but that’s about production bonus, no population or culture. If you feel we go way too off topic, just send your reply in private message. Thanks a lot.

    That’s actually what my “view from a totally different angle” remark was about. Also, for example I would be bothered by having to periodically re-launch many Merchants instead of one manufactory, but that angle wasn’t mentioned by anyone else. Maybe others didn’t go recently through “79 Mushroom Farms” hell. :-D
     
  11. Lelanya

    Lelanya Shaman

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2016
    Yeah K is right. The Mountain Halls increases production of manufactured goods so it will not apply. But the rate at which this applies and also the Golden Abyss, for example, is based on working population. If you have less because you are using a small field of merchants you are making these Wonders a great deal less powerful
     
  12. Sir Derf

    Sir Derf Soothsayer

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2018
    Was starting to do the analysis myself a while ago, hadn't finished to the level I was doing at the time, and am missing a few pieces of information.

    Could anyone tell me:

    1) What is the cost to produce 3 hour production of Elixir from a Level 15 Elixir Manufactory.
    2) What is the 3 hour production output for a Chapter 5 Travelling Merchant III.

    Thank you.

    (Oh, Wiki, so useful and yet so incomplete...)
     
  13. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Soothsayer

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2018
    You'd need many of them to be effective, but they are more effective than than normal boosted factories.
    69 per 3h in 7 squares (6+1 road) is just under 10 per sq
    Your factories produce far less if you factor in the workshops, pop, culture and roads
     
    TheBonker likes this.
  14. Killiak

    Killiak Illusionist

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2016
    Well, I suppose we are not off topic, as we can now craft the Traveling Merchants, and this is a topic about crafting.

    I will just give a list of AW that won't work with Merchants;
    - Mountain Halls; production bonus does not apply
    - Golden Abyss; population bonus it gives depends on your working population. Manufactories give many workers, merchants do not.
    - Sanctuary / Monastery; Same as Abyss, but with Culture
    - Watchtower Ruins; Same as Abyss, but with Culture

    These AW, assuming you have leveled them, help the traditional manufactories. I have to wonder if these (potential) bonusses were taken into account in the square to square comparison.

    Also, I am not 100% sure if the MM spells work with Merchants, but I don't believe they do.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2018
  15. Dizzy Lizzie

    Dizzy Lizzie Co-Community Manager Elvenar Team

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2017
    Hi Folks,

    These posts have been moved into their own thread because, even though they are no doubt directly related to Crafting, there is a danger of the Update Discussion about Crafting becoming derailed.

    (@SoggyShorts- please message me if you would like to suggest a more generic title and I'll alter it)
     
    TheBonker and SoggyShorts like this.
  16. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Soothsayer

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2018
    There is an "elvenar effeciency calculator that has every level of factory shown with "true size" based on all factors.
    http://elvenefficiency.netlify.com

    @Dizzy Lizzie thanks
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2018
  17. FieryArien

    FieryArien Spellcaster

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2018
    Thanks Dizzy Lizzie, the number of our posts was indeed starting to take too much of the Crafting thread. :)

    @Killiak, thank you very much for the detailed response. Now I understand what you meant and you are absolutely right - those values are missing in the “per square” list I wrote above. They should be included as well. :)

    The spells are very strong argument against Merchants, imho. Even if they worked on them, who would want to use multiple spells on many Merchants instead of few on manufactories. Personally I don’t use them (not very user friendly in the app, I don’t even see what is the remaining time on the enchanted building!) and so I often forget about them altogether.
     
    SoggyShorts likes this.
  18. Diadal

    Diadal Spellcaster

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2018
    I used the calculator and you need only 50% boost to produce an even amount/square (10). The calculator assumes you have a 560% boost in dwarfs and this gives a 44/square output compared to the merchants output of 10/square.
     
  19. m4rt1n

    m4rt1n Necromancer

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2017
    I always enjoyed the benefits of the traveling merchant v3 but soon deleted and replaced after a chapter or two. If I get opportunity for another I would happily place it once more.
    v2 and v1 of the Merchant I didn't find so beneficial as the amounts made were the same as v3 in number value only and could be made much more cheaply and traded from normal production T1 and T2 factories.
     
  20. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Soothsayer

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2018
    You used 9h+9h+3h
    To be fair that would be 69+161+161 for the tm3
    Which is 56 per sq to your 44
    A solid 25% improvement.
    Not even having a 900% boost would make up the difference
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2018
    m4rt1n likes this.

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