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Too much cross-tier trading

Mullebutz

Adventurer
That's the beauty of it @Mullebutz. Everyone will have a slightly different opinion of how much each thing is worth and they'll have to make their own decisions. Hopefully that will create an interesting split across the traders. Perhaps some people will offer something like 12k gems for 10k marble.

What I'm hoping for is for there to be no "tiers" at all.
While I can share your romantic vision of capitalist trade to a certain extent, the condition for me would then be that I get to choose and switch my boosted goods so at least I have some influence over how well I do on the market. ;)
 

Elvenbeast

Seeker
40 pages of trades and most of them are cross-tier trades, offering tier 3 for tier 1 or 2. I don't mind picking up a cross-tier trade from a fellow to help them out or even from a neighbor every now and then to build a good relationship, but this is getting to be a bit much. In my understanding cross-tier should be kept to a minimum not be used as an easy way to boost your own city out of the pockets of others.
Perhaps the developers could add a refined search filter for those of us who are tired of clicking through endless offers of 500 gems for 1990 scrolls or 7990 planks and who just want to do fair trades. End of rant, stepping off the soapbox ;)

Happy gaming, Mulle
If the developers hadn't changed the format of collecting goods when visiting the world, we would not be having this problem of being short of tier 1 and tier 2 goods. Instead, we have minor collections through world visits and exhorbitant collections through the wholesaler which increase with every click. Putting it back to how it used to be will solve the problem of trading t3-t1 and t3-t2 as we will have plenty of t1 and t2's. Everyone complained when this change was made, perhaps it is time to put the clock back.
 
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Pauly7

Shaman
If the developers hadn't changed the format of collecting goods when visiting the world, we would not be having this problem of being short of tier 1 and tier 2 goods. Instead, we have minor collections through world visits and exhorbitant collections through the wholesaler which increase with every click. Putting it back to how it used to be will solve the problem of trading t3-t1 and t3-t2 as we will have plenty of t1 and t2's. Everyone complained when this change was made, perhaps it is time to put the clock back.
I don't think this will work as all you would be doing is adding an equal amount extra of each tier, which would still leave the current overflow of T3.
 

m4rt1n

Artisan
A fellow just quit my fellowship because we couldn't accept 7 pages daily of cross tier trades. Inno needs to address the trader issue and the HUGE excess of T3 goods.
The fellow had at least 6 T3 factories and only a couple of T1 and T2 factories and refused my advice to remove 2xT3 and instead use the population to build 2-3 more T1 and T2 factories.
Apparently rather than do that, they are going where the grass is greener.
Unless Inno take seriously the problem, it is only going to get worse. :(
 

MinMax Gamer

Enchanter
A fellow just quit my fellowship because we couldn't accept 7 pages daily of cross tier trades.
I fail to see how these particular circumstances warrant Inno's intervention. You had a bad actor in the FS, you dealt with him/her (or they left by themselves). Do you expect Inno to police the fellowships?

And situation resolved as I would expect it to - the trades didn't find any takers, so the player had to either adjust the trading approach or move. He/she chose to move, but I strongly suspect that they won't find a place where "the grass is greener".
 

m4rt1n

Artisan
I fail to see how these particular circumstances warrant Inno's intervention. You had a bad actor in the FS, you dealt with him/her (or they left by themselves). Do you expect Inno to police the fellowships?

And situation resolved as I would expect it to - the trades didn't find any takers, so the player had to either adjust the trading approach or move. He/she chose to move, but I strongly suspect that they won't find a place where "the grass is greener".
What???
How does my post in any way ask Inno to police fellowships???
It asks Inno to look at the whole problem of too much T3 goods and the trader situation.
Do you like that the trader is full of huge amounts of cross-tier trades all offering T3 goods and that there is no problem at all with the current trader situation?
I am completely baffled. :eek:
I just gave an example of how players think filling the trader with cross-tier trades for T3 goods is the way to play the game. :)
 
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Hekata

Enchanter
My trader is also full of cross tier trade. It's becoming annoying. I never take them except to help out a fellow if he/she's in need of goods. But here's what I don't get: who takes those trades? If no one was accepting them people would stop making them. Instead I see more and more of those. Who thinks it's a good a idea to give 1600 or even 1300 marble to get 100 gems? I see cities with almost no t1 or t2, relying on only T3 and event bullrings to keep them stocked. How's that possible?
 

m4rt1n

Artisan
My trader is also full of cross tier trade. It's becoming annoying. I never take them except to help out a fellow if he/she's in need of goods. But here's what I don't get: who takes those trades? If no one was accepting them people would stop making them. Instead I see more and more of those. Who thinks it's a good a idea to give 1600 or even 1300 marble to get 100 gems? I see cities with almost no t1 or t2, relying on only T3 and event bullrings to keep them stocked. How's that possible?
It is not sustainable, the trades just sit there for 7 days then expire.

Inno need to address this issue please @Muf-Muf @Dizzy Lizzie @Rilian are the developers even aware that the prize buildings and sets over the last 6 months of the game have so badly upset the balance of goods in the game, namely HUGE amounts of T3 goods especially between Ch5-9 of the game.
The trader has become a complete joke because of giving lower level players masses and masses of Tier 3 goods.
 

Flame Knight

Guest
The trader has become a complete joke because of giving lower level players masses and masses of Tier 3 goods.
On another server a new city is in chapter 3 and can easily obtain 6k T3 per day trading 1 on 1 for my T2
So yes it does give new players an easy boost too, without the event buildings, but not with the standard trading of 1 on 4
 

m4rt1n

Artisan
On another server a new city is in chapter 3 and can easily obtain 6k T3 per day trading 1 on 1 for my T2
So yes it does give new players an easy boost too, without the event buildings, but not with the standard trading of 1 on 4
That is a very relevant fact, thanks, and one which the developers should be aware of also.
 

MinMax Gamer

Enchanter
On another server a new city is in chapter 3 and can easily obtain 6k T3 per day trading 1 on 1 for my T2
So yes it does give new players an easy boost too, without the event buildings, but not with the standard trading of 1 on 4
That's funny - on the US forums there are several people who believe that people like you @Flame Knight are kind of proletariat class that is being exploited. I.e. people in lower chapters / without T3 event buildings would be slaving away producing T1/T2 in servitude of a privileged class who can generate T3 basically for free.

While economic theory suggests that all parties would benefit from trade - just as you're describing in your case.

These flame wars are highly entertaining ;)
 

Crowella

Soothsayer
Almost all cross-tier trades visible in my trader on EN3 Felyndral are posted at the "recommended" 4:1 tier 3:tier2 or tier 2:tier 1 or 16:1 tier 3:tier 1 ratios. Some people add a slight sweetener. I check usually 2-3 times a day at least, and while it's possible there are more advantageous cross-tier trades posted that are snapped up before I have time to notice, I've only personally been able to find and accept one in three months of gameplay. Meanwhile I'm reluctant to post what I would consider to be "fair" cross-tier trades because my Fellowship members might feel I was trying to take advantage of them. (I'm by a factor of 3x the smallest player in my fellowship.)

"Free trade" often turns out to be a fairly bad idea for less-developed countries in the real world. (Witness the kilotons of plastic waste in Southeast Asia now that China won't take it.) It is naive and uninformed to imagine that it would work substantially better in an artificial economy that specifically has barriers to market pricing.
 

MinMax Gamer

Enchanter
Almost all cross-tier trades visible in my trader on EN3 Felyndral are posted at the "recommended" 4:1 tier 3:tier2 or tier 2:tier 1 or 16:1 tier 3:tier 1 ratios. Some people add a slight sweetener. I check usually 2-3 times a day at least, and while it's possible there are more advantageous cross-tier trades posted that are snapped up before I have time to notice, I've only personally been able to find and accept one in three months of gameplay. Meanwhile I'm reluctant to post what I would consider to be "fair" cross-tier trades because my Fellowship members might feel I was trying to take advantage of them. (I'm by a factor of 3x the smallest player in my fellowship.)
This may change as your reachable neighborhood grows. I see plenty of this nowadays (on US servers):

xTrader.PNG


Your FS may use a signaling system for trades meant for external traders - e.g. if your trade amounts end with 9, your FS members would ignore those.

"Free trade" often turns out to be a fairly bad idea for less-developed countries in the real world
Hm, you're stating it as a fact. Source? Without going into lengthy debate about benefits of free trade, let's just say that people who do it for a living generally have a different view. Mass media on all sides like to pile on trade nowadays - this have nothing to do with facts.

You may want to take a look here: http://www.ifreetrade.org/why_free_trade. This is not an unbiased source in itself, but they cite actual studies, and everyone can make up their mind based on that.
 

Crowella

Soothsayer
I'm basing the statement on articles I read during my studies for an MBA in finance when I was taking coursework in economics and international finance. I am not saying that free trade is universally bad. There are good aspects of it. But there are also unintended consequences, such as the plastic dumping I mentioned. https://www.businessinsider.com/southeast-asia-threaten-to-return-plastic-trash-to-west-2019-5 In many ways I see the unloading of excess tier 3 as analogous to plastic dumping.

As far as your suggestion about the widening of my market creating more reasonable cross-tier opportunities, I've observed the opposite so far -- the more people I can "see" in my trader the more crap non-beneficial cross-tier trades appear, usually without any accompanying same-tier or beneficial cross-tier trades.
 

Pauly7

Shaman
Inno need to address this issue please @Muf-Muf @Dizzy Lizzie @Rilian are the developers even aware that the prize buildings and sets over the last 6 months of the game have so badly upset the balance of goods in the game, namely HUGE amounts of T3 goods especially between Ch5-9 of the game.
The developers are aware @m4rt1n. Noticeably since the chaos started and everyone started complaining of the T3 overload, abruptly all new set buildings disappeared from the events.

Now that they have stemmed the problem from getting worse, I think, they are considering how to solve the existing problem. It isn't an easy one. The most obvious answer is that they will nerf everyone's sets where large amounts of T3 is being produced (see the Crystal Lighthouse problem or the great culture/pop nerf of 2018), but if they do this they know the horrific backlash they will get from everyone complaining about being lied to.

I'm not saying I'm in their corner, but now that they have made their bed it's probably a tricky one to sort out. Perhaps they need to provide tons of buildings that give free T1, as some have suggested, but then you will end up in a situation where everyone is just making way too many goods, plus newer players will become awash with T1, but not have the T3.

I don't see a more likely answer than all the existing sets being nerfed, but that isn't what people will want to hear.
 

Hekata

Enchanter
Maybe they can convert some of the existing event buildings that produce T3 to T2 or T1? That could even things out.

Going a bit off topic here but since you mentioned the crystal lighthouse nerf... I din't have one back then because I was in low chapters and only managed to build it a bit after they rebalanced it. I understand that people were taking advantage of the old system and that it had to go, but the way it is now it's so underwhelming. I'm in halflings with a LV13 Lighthouse and 350 provinces completed and I get about 10k of goods from the chests. It is a ridiculous amount especially when you considerer that in my smaller city in dwarves I get more from event buildings. And the Lighthouse needs a lot of kps and provinces to be upgraded. They should really rebalance it again. It can still be 3 chests but with more goods in them.
 

pobble

Alchemist
After the outcry with the last big nerfing it would be extremely brave of Inno to do any such thing again - absolutely nobody will like them if they do. And in any case they probably don't need to.
Each time we reach a new chapter and need to move things around and make space for a new guest race, most of us delete some buildings - often from among our older event buildings - and refresh our cities with newer buildings, perhaps because they have better stats or simply look better with the new race style, or because we realise how much space all those essential willows will need, or ... lots of reasons.
Or an event comes along and I see and win a nice building I want, and I use it to replace an older building that I have got a bit bored with. We all do it all the time.
So as Inno stopped issuing the sets with the problematic high T3, the issue is now steadily solving itself by a natural means.
 

EdwardTrunk

Soothsayer
A fellow just quit my fellowship because we couldn't accept 7 pages daily of cross tier trades. Inno needs to address the trader issue and the HUGE excess of T3 goods.
The fellow had at least 6 T3 factories and only a couple of T1 and T2 factories and refused my advice to remove 2xT3 and instead use the population to build 2-3 more T1 and T2 factories.
Apparently rather than do that, they are going where the grass is greener.
Unless Inno take seriously the problem, it is only going to get worse. :(
The same player quit our fellowship to join yours. We did allow him to post his 7 pages of cross tier trades but, like yourself, we advised him politely and in a helpful way to rebalance his T1, T2 and T3 manus exactly as you have. The next thing we knew he had left our FS and joined yours. Replacing players on Arendyll is always a bit of a slog but believe me, your FS is better off without him. ;)