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Tome of the Phoenixes in Crafting Recipes Pet Food Slot

Laurelin

Scholar
Is anyone else, like I am, getting very tired of seeing this 'Tome of the Phoenixes' Recipe in the Crafting rotation - and in the Pet Food slot...?!

In my own case, it's appeared at least once every two days (as a low overall estimate), ever since the last Phoenix Event began - and as I usually log in only about 1-3 times per day, even though I do sometimes stay logged-in for some hours, I'm probably missing even more appearances of this Recipe than I actually see... :/

Tome_of_the_Phoenixes_Twilight_2020-Original_Ashen_Coldfire_01a.jpg


TL;DR Summary :

@Herodite - I'm sorry to tag you directly once again, and also to demand yet more of your time, but can we PLEASE have this Recipe removed from the Crafting rotation? After all, even the FA is over now (that being the latest point, post-Events, at which Artifact conversion Recipes (by any name - they weren't always called 'Tome of X or Y') have previously been removed - and yet this one is still appearing at least on a daily basis. Surely virtually nobody can STILL need this Recipe?!

My Usual Semi-Pointless Waffle* For Anyone Sufficiently Patient And/Or Bored :

( * Wish I could trademark that, but @Sir Derf got there before me - drat! ;) )

While I'm typically below average where Elvenar's RNG is concerned, I doubt I'm SO excessively unlucky, in this particular case, as to be at the extreme end of the RNG bell-curve constantly throughout the many weeks which have passed since this Recipe was first added to the Crafting rotation? I'm too lazy to work out precisely how many weeks have passed since this year's Phoenix Event began, but it's been a LONG time now!

I'm intentionally being over-conservative, too, with my 'once per two days' estimate, above, since it's far from rare for me to see this Recipe more than once per day (I think the most I've seen is three out of three rotations, but two consecutive appearances - as has just happened, in fact - is far from unusual, with [probably] only the various Travelling Merchants (which I also don't want and will never build) appearing anything like as frequently, and/or multiple times in a row (and - on a similar note! - thus also proving something of a long-term nuisance, to me, because they're taking up valuable chances for 5-day Combat Boosters to appear, but even I shall resist going THIS far off-topic...) :D

So - altogether, and without exaggeration, I've seen this Recipe AT LEAST 40 times [I've stopped counting], so depending upon one's priorities, that's up to 40* lost chances to make Pet Food and/or other and in some cases [for me] MUCH more useful Artifacts, particularly 'original' Bear Artifacts - which seem to be extremely rare at the best of times, and now unseen, by me, for weeks on end - as well as Relics, which also share that same slot. Even though I'm now in Ch.XII Elementals, I still Craft every set of CC-producing Relics I see, because I almost never have enough CCs despite clearing the full Spire most weeks and collecting 3 x CCs per day from City buildings as well. Crafting has become a central part of the game in many ways, as I'm sure most would agree, and for one [non-vital - certainly by now!] Recipe to be monopolising the Recipe rotation at the expense of several other [near-essential] Recipes in this way is becoming quite a major nuisance in my view.

* While I'm sure that many players wished to convert some or all of the Twilight Artifacts they won in the recent Event into [probably] 'original' 2020 Phoenix Artifacts, I doubt there are many who would have won more than 10 Twilight Artifacts to convert, and even doing this would require only five Tomes. Even including those - even fewer - players who might have paid Diamonds/cash to win and then convert more than one 'set' of 10 Artifacts, which would obviously require a further 5 x Tomes per 10 Twilight Artifacts, I find it highly improbable that any more than a tiny handful would ever need 40+ conversion Recipes, since that would mean they'd paid for 70+ Twilight Artifacts over and above the 9-10 which the Event could realistically have provided for free. And in any case, many such players would, in my opinion, probably save themselves a LOT of time, effort, and probably expense, too (I haven't done the calculations, so that's only a guess!) by simply buying outright one or more 2020 Phoenix base(s) and/or [set(s) of] Artifacts in one of Inno's occasional cash sales - or just by using the Phoenix Artifact Recipe which is a standard Crafting option. In fact, I'm only even mentioning this because I like to cover as many scenarios as I can!

I myself chose to build the Twilight Phoenix, and needed all 9 Artifacts I won in order to do so, thus having no need ever to use this Tome Recipe, and for me and those in a similar position, it's even more redundant (and now verging upon irritating, too) to keep seeing an unwanted - and useless - Recipe so frequently, with its every appearance representing nothing more, to me, and perhaps many others too, by now, than yet another lost chance to Craft something else which I/we might actually want, or in some cases even need.

It's not even possible to Craft this Recipe for the usual secondary reasons - either (a) to stop it from appearing again, or (b) to Disenchant the resulting item into Spell Fragments - because this particular type of Recipe (1) doesn't disappear from the rotation once Crafted, and (2) also doesn't allow Diamond replacement of the missing Artifacts required - whether or not anyone would actually want [effectively] to exchange Diamonds for Spell Frags!

In fact, this Recipe is entirely useless in the excessive quantities in which it continues to appear - whereas some of those it is replacing (again I say : Pet Food?!) definitely are not... :/



PS : This Recipe is also still appearing on Beta, despite having been added there even earlier; I really hope EN won't follow suit?

PPS : If nothing else, this persistent reappearance of one Recipe certainly seems to suggest that the Recipe rotation is NOT entirely randomised.

PPPS : I doubt anyone else cares, but the plural of 'phoenix' is 'phoenices'... it's driving me MAD to see it written - near-DAILY - as 'Phoenixes'...!
 
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Sir Derf

Mentor
My Usual Semi-Pointless Waffle* For Anyone Sufficiently Patient And/Or Bored :

( * Wish I could trademark that, but @Sir Derf got there before me - drat! ;) )
Legally, I think you would be on safe ground. A key aspect is whether there is any confusion between the two, and I think most people can tell the difference between math and waffles...


Mmmmmmmmm, waffles...
 

Laurelin

Scholar
According to wiktionary...
phoenix (plural phoenix or phoenixes or phoenices)

I always use phoenix as a singular & plural, less syllables:p

The simplest answer is often the best, indeed! And certainly the least likely to attract the pedantry of online dilettantes like me... oh no... ;)

It's actually a bit of a non-debate, since there was only one Phoenix; the entire point of the symbolism of a bird which self-immolates and then rises anew from its own ashes is to analogise the everlasting and indestructible self-renewal of life itself (or similar variations on the theme)... so Elvenar is on pretty shaky ground in many ways here, let's face it! Having not only herds of them LAYING EGGS like farmyard hens, but also several which are only very loosely recognisable as a (the?) Phoenix, even with much artistic licence added (and let's not mention the Aureate Duck, shall we? I mean, I get that it's meant to be swimming around in a pond, but did it have to be?) is... something I just ignore, because the Twilight - Bird? - is at least quite Phoenix-like, rather handy during Stage III Spire/higher Tourney Provinces, and also closeR to the reality...? :D

(Sudden thought : Oh wait - do you think that the three 2019 'original' Phoens. (aha, there!) were meant to be representing the Elements? Fire, Storm (for Air), and Water? But what about Earth, if so? Did they just despair of that one, and give it up as a bad job? Why do I even care? Etc.).

Mind you. I tend to take issue with young upstarts like Wiktionary on very many issues indeed when it comes to English linguistics, and this is obviously going to be one of them... below is my one and only online source, nowadays, of English language definitions (it's actually multiple English - US and British - dictionaries combined, and a thesaurus, and an encyclopaedia [Wik.com doesn't prefer the diphthong there, either, although I always think it's quite amusing to see an English spelling variant referenced as '(chiefly UK, Australia) Alternative spelling of [insert newer US spelling of the word here]' - we Brits did rather invent the language, not to be a bore and all that...] - and it's more as well, too - and it became my first (and now last) resort for pretty much anything to do with English after the OED website finally took leave of its senses and compounded its ongoing habit of adding pure nonsense such as 'cat café' to the language after spotting it once on Twitter, or somewhere like that, and [not a joke] presented, as its WORD of the Year 2015, the 'laughing/crying emoji' - or 'face with tears of joy', allegedly, which is hateful enough even as a horrid little image, let alone disgracing the pages of the world's most august dictionary... although as a hilarious twist in the tale, it never did - and Oxford themselves, following the inevitable outrage, were forced to admit in writing that they wouldn't be adding it to the OED because, well... it's NOT a word. It's a picture.

Anyway, it actually all depends on whether you construct 'phoenix' according to its Old English or Classical roots, so here goes:

phoenix​

(ˈfiːnɪks) or

phenix​

n
1. (Classical Myth & Legend) a legendary Arabian bird said to set fire to itself and rise anew from the ashes every 500 years
2. a person or thing of surpassing beauty or quality
[Old English fenix, via Latin from Greek phoinix; identical in form with Greek Phoinix Phoenician, purple]

Source : My trusty old recourse for ALL disputed (or old!) words...

And while I'm at it (it's probably no surprise that Wiktionary's even more famous parent site isn't usually my first choice, either...) I also can't resist linking the real tale(s) of the Phoenix, just in case anyone is interested - naturally FAR deeper, more lovely, and more resonant than most modern video game presentations of same, and as for the cartoonish giant Easter Eggs which many buildings state/imply are 'Phoenix Eggs', well... only the 'Phoenix Rider', complete with High Fantasy Art-style saddle, is a less likely concept, perhaps...?!

If anyone is ever likely to read it, then:

Pre-Wikipedia Encyclopaedic Treatment of Phoenix Myth

OK, I'll let myself out - and yes, I DO have too much time on my hands!

PS : @Sir Derf : I'd just love to respond with "mmmm.... maths", but then I'd sound even more unhinged than usual - if that's possible?! :)
 

Laurelin

Scholar
Oh, and - I'm STILL tired of seeing the Tome of the Phoen...... THOSE now-useless Recipes in Crafting. I've just seen ANOTHER - twice today, again.
Please, can they go away now? :)
 

Herodite

Senior Forum Moderator
Elvenar Team
Im throwing my hat into ring here and im going with "Phoeni" :D

Concerning the Phoenix Tome (that contain the choice of Pheoni - i'm determined with this) i'm unsure as to the duration of this in the Crafting Recipes. Now I cannot see them getting rid of the Phoenix Tomes in their entirety, I would assume though that they will alter the cost given, as you say, the Twilight Phoenix Event is long gone. They may alter it according to Spire Artefact Rotations!? I don't know... but I definitely can't see them doing away with them.

I am feeding back your comments though concerning the Tomes as always! It will get to whom it needs to go :D

Kind Regards

Herodite.
 

Jake65

Sorcerer
For me it was a blessing that it still appeared in crafting after the FA. It enabled me to convert the two tomes from the FA into a fire Phoenix artefact that I needed.
I agree it might be a pain if you don't need the recipe but I'm sure I'm not the only one who doesn't have a fully evolved fire and was grateful to get another step up the evolution ladder.
 

Laurelin

Scholar
For me it was a blessing that it still appeared in crafting after the FA. It enabled me to convert the two tomes from the FA into a fire Phoenix artefact that I needed.
Yes... I really do try (as is probably obvious from my word count!) to consider as many other players' views/needs as I can (no really, I do - I'm only one of many, after all, and there's no such thing as 'the right way' to play ANY game...), but I'm sorry to have failed to account for those who really haven't been able - or willing (free choice is a marvellous thing!) - to use the Tome before now, for whatever reason (ALL are valid), to convert their Twilight Artifacts to the 'original' and much-coveted 2019 type. But I think that @Herodite's latest suggestion probably works best...? :)

Anecdote: I myself would have been delighted to have had access to earlier Tome-type Recipes for MUCH longer than they were offered during any other post-2019 Phoenix Event, since I saw THOSE Tome Recipes literally ZERO times before they were removed - once even before the end of the post-Event FA, in the case of (?) Ashen Artifacts, was it? (and I also think (?) the Recipe was called something more like 'Artifact Conversion Recipe' back then, but it was the same thing)... AND I won only a single 2019 Phoenix Artifact when it appeared in the Spire, too, and so I had no choice but to spend [all possible] Blueprints and [many] Diamonds evolving my own Fire Phoenix (without which no player can realistically engage in anything but basic Combat - it's an essential part of the game in that respect, now). That's because I missed the 2019 Event in my present Arendyll City, so instead I needed to Craft the building base, and then painstakingly - it took close to a year! - evolve it to Stage 10 the SLOW way (vs my former City [with different User ID] on Felyndral, now 'under new management', where I had the original free Event-won version... grrr!).
I agree it might be a pain if you don't need the recipe but I'm sure I'm not the only one who doesn't have a fully evolved fire and was grateful to get another step up the evolution ladder.
Again, yes... I, too, agree that players need a consistently available method to use when it comes to converting any and all post-2019 Phoenix Artifacts to the 2019 version(s), all three of which are arguably (and in the case of the Fire, without doubt) superior to any subsequent Phoenix iteration - with the possible exception of the Ashen, for those whose playstyle/Event luck level demands it - and the Fire is now near-essential to the game, with the other two types being more in the category of 'desirable but not required to play the game with broad competence', as the Fire can now be described (views differ upon whether the Aureate or the Storm is 'better' - again, that's playstyle- and/or choice-related, so no single conclusion there!). It's the current lack of ANY utility of the current Tome - for any player not seeking to convert Artifacts - together with its over-prevalence in Crafting, where it is becoming quite a problem in terms of missing out on Pet Food in particular, to which I object.

That said, I would be much in favour of @Herodite's suggestion - as I've already said, I know - but to go into a bit more detail, I'd advocate strongly for ONE single Recipe to be created which would allow ANY and ALL Phoenix Artifacts to be converted to any other type, whether those Artifacts be old, new, or yet to be created. The 2019 Phoenix trio will probably never again be equalled in their overall utility, and of the three the Fire stands as perhaps the most necessary building in the entire game when it comes to Combat (itself becoming only more, not less, of an integral part of the game as time passes, too), and of course there are many players, too, who either need and/or would simply prefer to build one or even all of the other types of Phoenix instead or as well as the 2019 version(s), so providing all players past, present and future with one FIXED and UNCHANGING method of exchanging Phoenix Artifacts between their varying 'incarnations' (ooh - there's a vague - and spontaneous, honestly! - attempt to drag into this comment at least a faint flavour of my determined view, above, that THE Phoenix is, after all, representative of rebirth and all that? Haha)... and while I love to micro-manage as much as the next strategy game fan, I'm also a fan of [functional] simplicity vs [unnecessary] complexity, so the repeated creation of, temporary presentation - by random chance - of, and then subsequent removal from the game of what is now becoming an entire series of not even fully similar Tome-type Recipes - when ONE version is so very obviously needed, all things considered - seems to be a far less convenient, more cumbersome, and generally worse option.

NB : Yes, I know - the idea (from the perspective of Inno) is to get players to log in as often as possible, ideally in fact never to log off, in the hope of seeing a Tome Recipe - of a time-limited nature - appear by RNG in Crafting, but I for one am fully convinced that making money from Elvenar is NOT a problem for our Lords and Masters whose word will be, as it always is, final on this issue as upon all others. Surely, for once, the legitimate NEEDS of the players can be taken into account instead of the Mighty Profit Motive, and the never-ending succession of time-limited, randomly presented, and overly specific Recipes (whereby we can exchange only THIS type of Artifact for only THESE other types, and no other Resource but Artifacts can be given in exchange, either...) can be replaced with a SANE alternative of ONE perennially useful Recipe?

Go on Inno, you know you can do it...! :D

[Edited for typos only]
 
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Jake65

Sorcerer
I'm a late starter for the fighting aspect of the game so I'm relieved that my Fire Phoenix is up to level 8 seeing as the artefacts are quite hard to get.
Admittedly I chose to max my Twilight......
I do wonder how a newish player could ever get a maxed Fire.
P.S. don't stress about your word count, your detailed insights are appreciated :)
 

Laurelin

Scholar
I'm a late starter for the fighting aspect of the game so I'm relieved that my Fire Phoenix is up to level 8 seeing as the artefacts are quite hard to get.
@Jake65 : Indeed they are - I started on Felyndral over four years ago, but abandoned that City at the end of Ch.VIII O&G and re-started on Arendyll - a much older Server (Fel was quite new, back then, so many newly started Cities defaulted there) - due to a chronic and City-disabling lack of Scrolls, would you believe? (and its most common companion Goods, Steel and Magic Dust) - which we are now seeing AGAIN, for a different but - as rumour has it, anyway - related reason?

The rumour is that the Moonstone Set was (contrary to analysis - and objections - provided on Beta) intentionally set by Inno to produce Scrolls for all, rather than the more usual - and sensible - option of T2+[1 or 2] Goods, to address the VERY long-term lack of Scrolls/all related T2/T5 Goods which was, by then, becoming a serious problem - and I've also heard, from a source I respect, that some of the later Guest Race Chapters STILL feature an exaggeratedly high demand for Scrolls [as a Research and/or Building Upgrade Resource] for the same reason.

As you'll know if you're late only to Combat, rather than the game itself (?), before the Spire Formula was incorporated into the Tournament as well (via the change known as the 'new' Tourney Formula), the older-format Scrolls Tourney was MUCH harder than any other, with predictable consequences for the availability of T2/T5 Goods [and others too, due to the knock-on effect] - and even though the Scrolls Tourney is still SOMEWHAT difficult, comparatively speaking, the heavy prevalence in the older Tourneys of one specific 'problem Unit', namely MistWalkers [seen randomly in every Tourney now, even if with more prevalence in Scrolls and a couple of others], was critical. In my view, Inno really do need to nerf MWalkers, since they tend to dictate the strategy of almost all battles in which they appear, but that's another subject entirely!

Admittedly I chose to max my Twilight.
As did I - a useful life-saver in the Spire once 2-wave [and 3-wave Boss] fights begin to appear, where it can become important to be able to boost (even by 5%) a damaged stack (especially if the Units lost are the player's 'counter-Unit' or otherwise vital) and/or entirely to recover even just a tiny % of such a stack, often because their debuff is vital to avoiding heavy losses, or even surviving both or all three Combat Rounds, and/or because they're acting as a decoy for - yes, you guessed it! - [usually] MistWalkers [and/or Cannoneers, now that we don't see Enemy Frogs outside of Provinces Encounters, since both have full-map coverage AND the annoying habit of hiding inaccessibly in the back row!].

And of course the Twilight is even more useful than it seems in an intentionally small-footprint City like mine to save what amounts to 5% of the very large Squads later in the Tourney (I have 15 Expansions now in Inventory, but even so, it's far from a tiny City - not that I could even do that, since (a) it was already fairly large when the 2020 Tourney Formula arrived, and (b) I'm not THAT keen! - and starting again wasn't for me).

So in my opinion, although the Twilight is only situationally useful, with max. 5% Troops revived, it's still worth a place in my City at present, since I have only 2* Blossoms (most importantly) and Rangers, and 1* Frogs, until I reach my 'Frog Prince acquired' ideal stop, or go-very-slowly, point in late Ch.XV.

I do wonder how a newish player could ever get a maxed Fire.
Well, I hate to be that person (actually, no, I don't, but I try not to do this too often - it's depressing for everyone else, I'd imagine!)... but like this:

Exclusive_Offer_Sales_18-04-2022_Burning_Pools_Phoenix_Artifact_Tome_01b.jpg


Or even, if you're not the Spire-Crafting-focused, RNG-favoured, and/or generally dedicated type, and have a useful amount of disposable income:

Black_Friday_2019_Phoenix_Bear_Summer_Mermaids_Artifacts_Pet_Food_£75.jpg


.... So, there's always those two options, I suppose, or similar (Bases and 9-packs of Artifacts are now sold) as and when they roll round again...?!

P.S. don't stress about your word count, your detailed insights are appreciated
Well thank you! As you can see, though, it may not be a great idea to encourage me TOO much, welcome though your kind remark is...! ^_^
 
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Laurelin

Scholar
@Herodite : I have no idea what magic you have wrought, or how - and crediting this minor miracle to pure coincidence, even if that's the truth, is very boring indeed! - but since you offered, above, to advocate for at least something to be done about the prevalence of the Tome of the Phoenixes, or even 'Phoeni' (I do love that solution - it really works!) in the Crafting rotation, I've seen only TWO of them appear, during the five days which have elapsed since you first posted your comment... TO THE VERY DAY!!

And I've been online a LOT during that time, since I'm engaging in my usual frenzy of Event-Questing until I reach my 'aaaand rest' point where the Daily Locked Quests begin, so I'm in a good position to judge whether I'm simply missing the Tome's appearances - and I'm not. During that time I've seen 2 or 3 (can't recall, sorry) x Pet Food, and 2 x [standard] 2019 Phoenix Artifact Recipes, as well - plus several Relics choices - so it would seem that the option Inno is taking, at least for now (as the Tome Recipe remains unchanged) is simply to reduce its chance to appear.

I really do hope this works for everyone, pending an ultimate solution - but I also hope that Inno's idea of a full solution will not be to make the Tome solely available via the Diamond-paid route shown in the first image I've attached in the above post - and certainly not to make it a cash-only purchase. I'm still much hoping for a 'Universal Tome of Every Artifact Ever' - or at least a 'Tome of ALL the Phoen...i / Bears / etc.' Recipe! :)
 

Jake65

Sorcerer
@Laurelin, ironically, yesterday a phoenix artefact popped up in the MA for the cost of 3 blueprints and a bucket load of fragments. Grabbed it with glee :D
To answer your ?, 2 years playing and at the beginning stages of chapter 15. I've only been fighting the last few months and I'll admit to auto-fighting *hangs head* :)
I play mostly on mobile and when I'm on PC I don't really have the time to manually fight.
I do sometimes watch the auto-fight though, the spitting frogs are quite amusing. Small things.......... :D
 

OldHag

Scholar
I'd like to see them moved to the rotation they've got going in the spire and leave them out of the ma
I'm of the mind that if you were not here for the original event, then why should the rest of us suffer?......Sorry Jake, I'm sure you'll get there. :)
and whilst we're here, when are we going to see bears again in the spire?
 

Laurelin

Scholar
[...] when are we going to see bears again in the spire?
@OldHag : Assuming that nothing's changed since this question last came up (as it may well have done, since it's been several months, IIRC), Spire Artifacts [are theoretically supposed to] appear in the same order in which their associated Evolving Buildings originally appeared as Event Grand Prizes, so there are probably a fair few to get through before those we've already seen at least once, such as 2019 Bears, start to repeat...?

Not much help, I know - and I haven't seen a Bear Artifact in Crafting for at least two months, if not three. Even before then, they were very rare.

On the other hand, @Jake65 : the 2019 Phoenix Artifact Recipes (with the same base cost of 3 x Blueprints plus 10K Spell Fragments, or Diamond equivalent of one or more of those Resources - Blueprints being 'worth' 300 Diamonds each in this context) seem to appear more often, at least in my own Crafting rotation - perhaps once a week, or at worst once a fortnight. Whether or not I have enough Blueprints (usually not) and/or Spell Fragments (usually not those, either, thinking about it!), is a different matter, though... /sigh.

In fact, that seems to be the standard cost of ALL Artifact Recipes - even though I personally value some of them far less - if at all!
 

Quixotique

Seeker
It's actually a bit of a non-debate, since there was only one Phoenix; the entire point of the symbolism of a bird which self-immolates and then rises anew from its own ashes is to analogise the everlasting and indestructible self-renewal of life itself (or similar variations on the theme)... so Elvenar is on pretty shaky ground in many ways here, let's face it! Having not only herds of them LAYING EGGS like farmyard hens, but also several which are only very loosely recognisable as a (the?) Phoenix
I don't know why but this reminded me of the pyrophytic Snottygobble tree, the fruit of which is a favourite of the emu. Apparently the seed only germinates properly after completing a trip thru the emu's digestive tract.
P. S I think the safest place for Elvenar is firmly fixed in fantasy otherwise we'd need to have an extremely uncomfortable conversation about Orcs
 
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Jake65

Sorcerer
I don't know why but this reminded me of the pyrophytic Snottygobble tree, the fruit of which is a favourite of the emu. Apparently the seed only germinates properly after completing a trip thru the emu's digestive tract.
P. S I think the safest place for Elvenar is firmly fixed in fantasy otherwise we'd need to have an extremely uncomfortable conversation about Orcs
And now you've got me thinking about kopi luwak coffee.
Agreed though, what happens in orcs must stay in orcs :D
 

Jake65

Sorcerer
@Laurelin, we seem to have taken your post a little bit off topic :D
 

Laurelin

Scholar
@Jake65 : Hey, I'm just pleased it got some readers... and even replies! And anyway, it makes a change from ME derailing my own posts... haha :D
 
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