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Question Thermal Spring of Youth AW and Magic Residences
- Thread starter Sir Derf
- Start date
Far Reach
Conjurer
Yes it does
Gargon667
Mentor
On par? let´s say it does the same (make pop), but certainly not "on par" with the other two. I don´t know what metrics you consider when you make such a statement, but anything I can come up with, say space, KP investment, upgrade costs... None of it the thermal springs comes even close to the other 2...
Realistic would be to say: If you build the correct kind of town, it can be better than placing an extra Magic Residence, but only IF you build the right kind of town.
Far Reach
Conjurer
I think that it depends upon what proportion of your population comes from residences (whether regular or magic) as opposed to from other sources (evolving or event buildings). Nearly all my pop comes from residences, and for me the population benefit from the Thermal Springs Wonder is indeed on par with that from the Golden Abyss and Mountain Halls. On the other hand for a player with a different build (e.g. relying heavily on Goblin Gift Shops) then the pop bonus is worth far less.
Agreed, although I suspect that the majority of players already have the "correct kind of town" when the AW becomes available. For my build (which is evolving), my fully levelled Thermal Springs Wonder is worth between 5 and 8 Magic Residences. A player with a significantly lower population requirement would of course get less benefit from the population bonuses from any Wonder (Thermal Springs, GA or MH).
Gargon667
Mentor
Well I have to admit I did not think of the Top 3 cities on the ranking screen when making my above statement.
Far Reach
Conjurer
Just for clarity, the analysis I gave is applicable to all cities (not just highly ranked ones).
If the large majority (say 90%+) of the base population is coming from residences then the population bonuses given by Thermal Springs, Golden Abyss and Mountain Halls are roughly the same.
Secondly the space saving will depend only on the number of residences used, and the level of the Thermal Springs Wonder. At level 30 it provides a 20% boost to residences permitting a saving of about one sixth (e.g. equating to 5 residences for a player retaining 25 residences.)
I imagine that Thermal Springs isn't worthwhile for you (@Gargon667), given that you only have 6 residences and also that these only provide 38% of your population. Judging from my quick random sampling, there are lots of players at all stages of the game for which it would be of value though.
Gargon667
Mentor
They do! They provide a % of working pop up to 15% of your working pop each.
But if all your working pop comes from residences (and not event buildings etc) the Thermal springs boosts a percentage of your total pop (which should be similar to your working pop unless you waste a lot), so you can actually compare the 3:
very roughly:
GA and MH 15% of the working pop each.
TSoY: 20% of 70% (100% minus GA and MHalls if you use no event buildings at all) which is 14%
So in a perfectly built city you have a nearly as good bonus from TSoY as you have from GA/MHalls, the problem is:
1. It is unrealistic to have no Pop besides GA, MHalls and Residences. Each event building giving pop will make the TSoY worse in comparison to the others.
2. Even if they were of equal quality, the TSoY is by orders of magnitude more expensive to upgrade.
Which to me means: It is pointless to start on the TSoY before the other 2 are maxed, and even then only if you build your city to match the TSoY.
I do not see many cities matching that description
Sir Derf
Adept
Yes, Golden Abyss (which you get in Chapter 1?) and Mountain Halls (which you get in Chapter 6) are both better than, and easier to upgrade than, Thermal Springs of Youth (which you get in Chapter 15). But, with even a small number of residences, Thermal Springs of Youth is still better than a residence.
Thermal Spring of Youth is 7x3, or 21 squares. Chapter 16 Residences are 5x4, or 20 squares, nearly equal in footprint. Population-wise, it is nearly equal to a 21st residence at its opening 5%, to an 11th residence at its level 10 10%, or to a 6th residence at its level 30 20%. Plus the culture savings.
Thermal Spring of Youth is 7x3, or 21 squares. Chapter 16 Residences are 5x4, or 20 squares, nearly equal in footprint. Population-wise, it is nearly equal to a 21st residence at its opening 5%, to an 11th residence at its level 10 10%, or to a 6th residence at its level 30 20%. Plus the culture savings.
Gargon667
Mentor
It is a closer comparison for sure, but in my case the result is the same. A Magic Residence is far superior.
As I don´t usually play with 10 residences this is not an option for me, but 1 AW level would be acceptable.
Since I am closer to the 6 residences mark, it simply doesn´t pay off. I would have to upgrade it to lvl 30 at very high cost just to replace a Magic Residence which I get for free from the spire, btw the MRes is both smaller and has a better shape... And as a thank you the 30 AW levels will kick me in the teeth every week in the tourneys... The only benefit for all these losses would be a bunch of culture lol. So really there isn´t even a question which one is preferable.
Pauly7
Magus
Thermal Spring of Youth is a fairly pointless AW for me. I am sure it's possible to make it work out if you have enough residences to boost, but it's never going to be a lot better than using the extra space to put another MR in... and for anyone who cares about tournaments and spire, then I wouldn't even bother trying to figure out whether they can make it viable.
Sir Derf
Adept
@Gargon667 ...
- I thought that a Magic residence from Chapter xxx was the same footprint as the Residence upgrade available in the same chapter, so would be 20 squares in Chapter 16-18, which I would again put at nearly comparable to the 21 squares of the TSoY. As to whether 4x5 is better than 3x7, well, that kinda depends...
- I would agree that comparably, a Magic Residence is better than a Residence, but that was not the option being discussed.
- And if you get several Magic Residences, then the TSoY works on that as well.
Gargon667
Mentor
1 square less on a 20 square building is a 5% improvement of the building. may not be the world, but it sure is more than nothing. Of course the shape is a matter of taste and some people may like 7 long buildings, I personally prefer standard size (5 on the long side), makes for easy city building.
It was not my intention to discuss that either. I was only talking about Magic Rasidences (but may have forgotten to add the prefix in every instance). Normal residences are horrible and should be avoided at all costs in any kind of city
I don´t understand this comment. Of course the TSoY works on all residences, otherwise it would be entirely useless. It can never produce anything worthwhile if it only worked on one. It would be 20% of a residence at lvl 30 lol. The whole problem is that you need more than 10 Magic Residences to make a start of it being of any use.