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The cost of land in Elvenar

alsael

Enchanter
Both Ferrari and Fiat are making cars.But fiat makes a people's car,and ferrari a car for the elite.Ferrari targets specific buyers,that is why they will never drop their prices.And that is why they made high quality cars in smaller numbers than the average auto industry.
Is space in elvenar universe expensive?from a point on,I believe it is.They can offer more for less,attracting more players,and keeping existing players....
 

Deleted User - 1759805

Guest
I think the main point here is that the quality/quantity doesn't justify the price. A better analogy would be if Ford tried to sell their more basic models for the same price as the Ferraris. Most people either can't afford that or would consider that a rip-off and therefore not purchase a Ford. You'll still be able to find a very small percentage of people who really want to buy a Ford, and so pay the money anyway. Others who can afford it will decide if they're going to spend that much money then they'd rather have a Ferarri, or get a Toyota instead and have a lot of change left over (i.e. why spend that much money on Elvenar when there are plenty of other good games out there that give much better bang for your buck).

It's a fair argument, but I don't know if there are that many other good games that offer better bang for the buck, especially much better. I know that there are many players that are specifically attracted to Elvenar because there is no PvP component - in most other games in the same category you have to do PvP. Those players are unlikely to go anywhere. Not that I've heard of any people who decide on the fremium game they play based on how far their purchases go ;) (some would indeed consider abandoning a game they deem too expensive)

But more importantly, my argument is not that it is a good value - literally all luxury goods are terrible in this aspect. For most people. Yet some people are attracted to that, and willing to pay for name/exclusivity/bragging rights/whatever. Price doesn't always reflect value (depends on definition of value, I suppose) - it doesn't necessarily mean it is a bad business decision.
 

Deleted User - 1759805

Guest
I asked you how many people do you know that would pay around £1000 for space in game not whether something exists or not.
I know several people who wouldn't blink at spending 1000 on anything, it is just not an important consideration to them. What's your point?


Are you seriously comparing an online game to a luxury car maker ? The difference between Ford and Ferrari is quality, the ferrari is a much higher quality product, there is no difference in quality between any of the types of expansions in this game. No matter if it is a free expansion from completing provinces on the world map or one you get from the tech tree or one of the premium ones they are all the same.

I am. I wouldn't even go into discussion about quality of Italian cars, or even if Ferrari is a good value. How about a more extreme example? Say, you can buy Patek Philippe watch for 250,000 (not the most expensive watch ever) - or you can buy its knockoff probably for 50. Both would show up time reasonably well, and even look similar from a distance Do you think PP is 5000x or more better, to be a better value? I am pretty certain that most people would answer no. It doesn't mean that Patek Philippe's business model is flawed. They're doing quite alright.

A lot of people assume that all demand is elastic. It might not be; it might even be a Veblen good (demand rises with price). I don't claim that I know elasticity of demand here, but I wouldn't be jumping to conclusions that raising prices is a money-losing proposition.
 

Timneh

Artisan
You keep using examples of actual real life items that you can buy, own and touch, land in this game is not real, you don't own it and you can't touch it although you can buy it and that is where the similarity ends. In my opinion you can't compare real life items with virtual items but like i said that is just my opinion and maybe you disagree. I feel that we will never agree on this subject so it is pointless continuing the disscusion so therefore i am going to leave it there.
 

DeletedUser1874

Guest
That's good, there is a reason that there is segmentation even in the luxury segment. Whales compete against each other (you clearly don't *need* any of the top premium expansions). If everyone can have it, it's not a differentiator anymore.
Even whales (I find the term rather inappropriate, because in my opinion it implies stupidity on the whale's part, whereas in most cases it's just an addiction-prone personality, as Jim Sterling accurately describes in many of his videos, or just people being rich and not caring) aren't usually committed in going all in when it comes to those premium expansions. Still it's interesting to note that even players that are clearly "whales" or at least "dolphins" such as myself prefer to invest in more efficient ways such as magic residences rather than buying more space? The divide between the value offered by pretty much anything else which costs diamonds and the last few premium expansions is so huge it's not even worth it to all but the most dedicated of "whales", which is my main point.
A disclaimer: I personally think that one should be able to use their hard-earned money however they wish, including virtual goods, if it makes them feel better. I myself literally burn 250 to 300 euros per week in ammo at the shooting range, and while I limit my diamond purchases to offers and about 100 euros every 3 months or so, if someone wants to spend 300 euros a week in Elvenar, then by all means he should go for it if he can afford it. The only problem is when "whales" are coerced through exploitative tactics such as FOMO, lootboxes, that kind of thing. Inno is not as exploitative as many other companies, but some critics could be made in that sense, starting from the implementation of veritable lootboxes in the last events (which I personally don't mind, I actually think these new events require less if not no diamond investment in order to get the grand prize, or in this case a level 9 evolution thing, which a guildie of mine managed to get already without using real money), but my main gripe is the ever-growing need for land space in order to finish questlines, and the price of premium expansions going up exponentially.

You keep using examples of actual real life items that you can buy, own and touch, land in this game is not real, you don't own it and you can't touch it although you can buy it and that is where the similarity ends. In my opinion you can't compare real life items with virtual items but like i said that is just my opinion and maybe you disagree. I feel that we will never agree on this subject so it is pointless continuing the disscusion so therefore i am going to leave it there.
I don't think there's any difference between something you can own and touch and something that isn't "real", but rather something that lasts for a long time and something that doesn't. See my example above - bullets are very real, I can touch them, and they even weight quite a lot - yet at the end of a session they're just spent casings (which can be reloaded to save some money at the cost of time, but that's another matter). So going by that example, buying stuff in Elvenar lasts me more than bullets - my regular session averaging 3 hours. Of course I bring home fun, experience, interactions with range buddies, and so on - the final point being, both are hobbies, and both don't really get you anything "solid". Unless a zombie apocalypse hits that is, in that case my hobby will prove a most useful investment.
 
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Deleted User - 1759805

Guest
I personally think that one should be able to use their hard-earned money however they wish, including virtual goods, if it makes them feel better. I myself literally burn 250 to 300 euros per week in ammo at the shooting range, and while I limit my diamond purchases to offers and about 100 euros every 3 months or so, if someone wants to spend 300 euros a week in Elvenar, then by all means he should go for it if he can afford it.
Fully agree. I believe in freedom of choice ;)

By the way, with expansions at least you're getting something with a degree of permanence, and unattainable by any other means in case of premium ones. If you want to talk about bad value, you can talk about using diamonds for time boosting. Ever noticed that even if you have a few seconds left to build, it still would cost several diamonds to speed up? Or getting essence with your diamond purchases...
 

DeletedUser1874

Guest
Fully agree. I believe in freedom of choice ;)

By the way, with expansions at least you're getting something with a degree of permanence, and unattainable by any other means in case of premium ones. If you want to talk about bad value, you can talk about using diamonds for time boosting. Ever noticed that even if you have a few seconds left to build, it still would cost several diamonds to speed up? Or getting essence with your diamond purchases...
Yes, speeding up stuff with diamonds is probably the less efficient way to spend them. As to essence, I disagree - I usually buy diamonds when an event such as the current Phoenix one is ongoing as to get some extra bang for my bucks. However if you mean buying essence with diamonds, yes, that is horribly inefficient.
The permanence thing is debatable though, that's for sure. We don't know whether with the next chapters Inno plans to release expansions researches, nor do we know whether the expansions cap will remain the same, which I think it's going to be the case unless they manage to find a way to optimize the game for lag, because big cities lag a lot, even on very high-end computers. I mean, I can run new releases on 60 FPS stable on 4k, and Elvenar still lags like hell, so I don't see them raising the cap on expansions - meaning, premium expansions that cost 85 euros and upwards now will probably end up being part of the regular research tree, so their permanence is highly unsure.
 

Deleted User - 1759805

Guest
meaning, premium expansions that cost 85 euros and upwards now will probably end up being part of the regular research tree, so their permanence is highly unsure.
We'll see, but I doubt that would be the case. I mean, they split expansions into province, research and premium from the beginning, and there was never an overlap. Meaning you could never get expansions from research or premium buckets no matter how far you scout. But hey, you never know...

As for performance, I think this is primarily a factor of being browser-based. A game like this should be fairly low-requirements as a standalone application, but browsers were never designed as high-performance gaming platforms ;)
 

Deleted User - 341074

Guest
I asked you how many people do you know that would pay around £1000 for space in game.
I know a few, and I'm fairly convinced that since inno's revenues are increasing by double digits each year that they know what they are doing.
One self-professed whale I have spoken at length with purchased them in part due to exclusivity. She (and presumably others) enjoys having a special status that comes with having something others don't have.
As @MinMax Gamer said, a tiny tiny portion of players contribute most of the revenues for this kind of game, and many of those players need to feel that they are getting something special or exclusive in order to keep spending.

It seems like a slam-dunk to us when someone says "Just cut the price by 50%, you'll triple your sales!" but the reality is likely very different.
 
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Killiak

Artisan
With 20 wells that would still take decades for the last few. o_O

Sure, for the last few, but we were talking about exclusivity. Fact is that a good amount of the premium expansions aren't that exclusive ever since those Wishing Wells popped up.

Wishing wells have been given out like candy, so if they keep popping up every event, you will definitely be able to grab up "exclusive" stuff.
 

m4rt1n

Adept
Sure, for the last few, but we were talking about exclusivity. Fact is that a good amount of the premium expansions aren't that exclusive ever since those Wishing Wells popped up.

Wishing wells have been given out like candy, so if they keep popping up every event, you will definitely be able to grab up "exclusive" stuff.

I agree and have managed to get some of the 33 premium expansions using saved up diamonds from finishing chapters, having wells and winning on a forum competition.

That said, I still have 20 available and the next is 4600:diamond:
 

Thagdal

Sorcerer
As there are only going to be 15 chapters in this game, the premium expansions should be purchasable with gold in the last chapter. i dont think any would purchase premium in the last chapter if its not going anywhere after.
 

m4rt1n

Adept
As there are only going to be 15 chapters in this game, the premium expansions should be purchasable with gold in the last chapter. i dont think any would purchase premium in the last chapter if its not going anywhere after.

And the source if this information is?
 

Deleted User - 1759805

Guest
4600 :diamond: / 250 average per Well (10%, 100 days, 10*25 = 250) = 18.4 wells.

Easy enough this event :) Enjoy your new expansion in a 100 days!
You can collect Wishing Wells twice a day, so the max from a single well is 500. More realistic number would be about 400, if you're diligent.

But do you have space for 10 wells for 100 days? How many expansions is that? ;)
 

Deleted User - 341074

Guest
As there are only going to be 15 chapters in this game, the premium expansions should be purchasable with gold in the last chapter. i dont think any would purchase premium in the last chapter if its not going anywhere after.
Facebook Q&A...Timon the game designer has already finished with Elvenar.
Watch it again. At no point did they say chapter 15 was the last. In fact they said the exact opposite that there would be "more chapters".
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If given enough time and Wishing Wells, anyone can get the premium expansions.........Wishing wells have been given out like candy, so if they keep popping up every event, you will definitely be able to grab up "exclusive" stuff
At a certain point, it's still practically exclusive even if theoretically attainable.
The last 10 premium expansions require 450 wishing wells. (112,500 diamonds)
22.5 wishing wells per event
100 days between events
= 2,000 days.
And that's a lot of assumptions, not including premium expansions that will be added to the game (Last Q&A they confirmed that eventually the grid will increase, and I'm betting they won't all be free)

Edit: also, if you are using 10 expansions to hold WW constantly for 4 years foregoing all other event prizes it's not exactly the same thing as just having so much space, is it?:p
 

Killiak

Artisan
You can collect Wishing Wells twice a day, so the max from a single well is 500. More realistic number would be about 400, if you're diligent.
But do you have space for 10 wells for 100 days? How many expansions is that? ;)

Fine, 400. Just makes it even easier to attain. And yes, pretty much anyone with a competent city design and playstyle can catch up to chapters and have that much free space available. Easy even.

2000 days

Edit: also, if you are using 10 expansions to hold WW constantly for 4 years foregoing all other event prizes it's not exactly the same thing as just having so much space, is it?:p

My previous statement holds up easily against any such arguments; "Fact is that a good amount of the premium expansions aren't that exclusive ever since those Wishing Wells popped up."

It's simply true. Comparing the last 10 expansions is horribly incomplete since you are ignoring the first 23. Those first 23 are cheaper all together than the last 10 too, which fits my statement as well "a good amount of" .


Sorry to burst any bubbles; anyone can get them now.
 
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