The Cauldron

[Jake65]

better/worse effect/duration (or a different effect - or a duplicate effect (or several!) - or none at all (and 'no effect' can also be duplicated)

One of the other goblets afterwards also had a goods boost but for 20%. A pop-up enquired as to whether I would like to keep the old boost or go for the new? Duh!

Spell Fragments aren't sustainable without Disenchanting,

This was more just to see the effect, I'm not going to be using fragments regularly. Just like power tools (and handbags apparently) I never have enough of them.

after MUCH build-up

The marketeers had a field day with this. I think if they'd been more restrained there would be fewer disappointed players.

even available in Chapter 5

I can't remember how long it took me to get to there but I think a PG rating of chapter5 is okay.

As for the forced simultaneous usage of all potions

This I don't like!! It is highly unlikely I would want to boost goods production and troop strength at the same time. I think we should be able to glug each potion when we feel the need to, not all together.

I'm one of thoooose players that doesn't spend any "real" money so, after initially feeling sceptical about it, I'm looking at it now in a similar way as the daily gift. It's not a game changer as the rewards are too small (at the moment) but it takes nothing away from my game and whatever reward I get is something that I didn't have previously. So I like it
I do see it as being similar to a casino one-arm bandit where it could be easy to get caught in the "just one more ingredient, it's only 25 diamonds" trap. The one feature that needs the most patience and self discipline?

PS : I'm not picking on you

I didn't take it as that
Debates always welcome.

Still not using coin instants ......

 

[OldHag]

Yep, get it and I like it.

Is there a max level you can 'Improve effects' too, for each individual item?

 

[Laurelin]

Still not using coin instants ......

@Jake65 : Aha! I've been trying to find the other place on the Forum where you've recently said this, in order to reply, but so far I've failed.

This is pretty much off-topic, although I have at least mentioned the Cauldron, down below, so there's at least a tenuous connection there? Haha.

So. I just wanted to say that I'm doing the same as you, Coin Rains-wise (I try not to be hypocritical!) - I'm making nothing but Coin & Supply Instants from the bevy of Ferris Wheels which I spam into my City, along with other expiring stuff, in between Chapters (NB : am I the only one who sincerely wishes that expiring buildings took up less space, or do others care [a lot] less than I do about limiting their City footprint? Probably!).

Anyway. I doubt that any player with a well-managed and carefully built larger/older City will ever have much, if any, problem with running out of most types of sustainable (or even randomly awarded) Resources, Coin Instants included... but then again, Inno have made some pretty major changes to the game in the past, usually in order to bring in other changes which almost nobody could have foreseen ahead of time, so I never say never!

Examples which spring to mind would be:

1. The now near-forgotten but, for many, significant nerf to Event Building Pop levels, as a result of which many Cities went into negative Pop, some of them to an extreme and unplayable degree - even for players who weren't using this [IMO bizarre] option as a deliberate strategy. There was so much fuss that Inno eventually handed out 1 x Magic Residence to everyone, to semi-compensate (long before the Spire existed);

2. The broadly less-significant but still, for many Cities, quite disruptive and difficult-to-overcome nerf to the Goods rewards provided by the now-trivially useful [in this respect] Crystal Lighthouse/Great Bell Spire AW via NH Chests, once a significant daily source of Goods.

In fact - I never put anything past F2P mobile games, especially once they start bolting onto the base game various non-insignificant and expensively designed add-ons like the Cauldron... and Coins are so fundamental to the game's core functionality, as well as being relied upon by many players as [e.g.] a way to buy KP and/or Goods - with all the obvious implications of [even potentially] losing the value of such long-term strategic gameplay choices - that the game's auto-generating Coins function is one thing about which I'm exercising [probably] far too much caution.

That said, I hate being unprepared - and I still can't help observing that the suddenly much increased demand for Coins via both Events and FAs shows no sign of being reduced to any meaningful extent, highly unpopular (and patently unbalanced between small/larger Cities) though this has proved to be, and with no [visible] sign of comparatively major drains on any other fundamental in-game Resource being (yet?) put into place.

I can't help noticing patterns, especially in human behaviour; and when I do, they don't usually turn out to have been a mere coincidence.

Wow... sorry for all the wordy words! Just trying to to clarify my viewpoint, lest my "Save The Coins!" rhetoric is making me appear even more conspiratorial than I actually am...

 

[Heymrdiedier]

@Jake65 : Aha! I've been trying to find the other place on the Forum where you've recently said this, in order to reply, but so far I've failed.

This is pretty much off-topic, although I have at least mentioned the Cauldron, down below, so there's at least a tenuous connection there? Haha.

So. I just wanted to say that I'm doing the same as you, Coin Rains-wise (I try not to be hypocritical!) - I'm making nothing but Coin & Supply Instants from the bevy of Ferris Wheels which I spam into my City, along with other expiring stuff, in between Chapters (NB : am I the only one who sincerely wishes that expiring buildings took up less space, or do others care [a lot] less than I do about limiting their City footprint? Probably!).

Anyway. I doubt that any player with a well-managed and carefully built larger/older City will ever have much, if any, problem with running out of most types of sustainable (or even randomly awarded) Resources, Coin Instants included... but then again, Inno have made some pretty major changes to the game in the past, usually in order to bring in other changes which almost nobody could have foreseen ahead of time, so I never say never!

Examples which spring to mind would be:

1. The now near-forgotten but, for many, significant nerf to Event Building Pop levels, as a result of which many Cities went into negative Pop, some of them to an extreme and unplayable degree - even for players who weren't using this [IMO bizarre] option as a deliberate strategy. There was so much fuss that Inno eventually handed out 1 x Magic Residence to everyone, to semi-compensate (long before the Spire existed);

2. The broadly less-significant but still, for many Cities, still quite disruptive and difficult-to-overcome nerf to the Goods rewards provided by the now-trivially useful [in this respect] Crystal Lighthouse/Great Bell Spire AW via NH Chests, once a significant daily source of Goods.

In fact - I never put anything past F2P mobile games, especially once they start bolting onto the base game various non-insignificant and expensively designed add-ons like the Cauldron... and Coins are so fundamental to the game's core functionality, as well as being relied upon by many players as [e.g.] a way to buy KP and/or Goods - with all the obvious implications of [even potentially] losing the value of such long-term strategic gameplay choices - that the game's auto-generating Coins function is one thing about which I'm exercising [probably] far too much caution.

That said, I hate being unprepared - and I still can't help observing that the suddenly much increased demand for Coins via both Events and FAs shows no sign of being reduced to any meaningful extent, highly unpopular (and patently unbalanced between small/larger Cities) though this has proved to be, and with no [visible] sign of comparatively major drains on any other fundamental in-game Resource being (yet?) put into place.

I can't help noticing patterns, especially in human behaviour; and when I do, they don't usually turn out to have been a mere coincidence.

Wow... sorry for all the wordy words! Just trying to to clarify my viewpoint, lest my "Save The Coins!" rhetoric is making me appear even more conspiratorial than I actually am...

I believe ( but dont know where or when anmore) some players were getting short on coins when endtech, and were asking for an increase of those. And the reply from inno was: according to our game data, everyone always has an abundance of coins, its the only resource everyone got too much of.
I believe this is why they made the change to increased costs lately.

I must admit i was one of those players asking for more coins(so I didnt agree we had too much of them), but now that they finally fixed the world map, and im getting a lot more neighbourly help, my culture is high enough again to be comfortable in coins. (also have a lot less culture/pop event buildings now)

 

[Laurelin]

Interesting post by player Vigali on the US Forum, on aiming for Potion effects you want/need, rather than overall percentage Success Rate:

https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/the-cauldron-discussion-thread.32778/post-274997

ETA : I'm no mathematician, so I'm assuming that Vigali is correct, probability-wise (and I have no reason to think s/he is wrong) - but even if there were an overall lower chance of achieving effects I actually want/need, I'd prefer that to having a higher chance of achieving less/non-useful results, which I personally would find merely annoying (assuming that all chances were realistically probable, not at the <5% level or similar; I'm not a gambler and I get no 'thrill' from randomly achieving unlikely but impressive results by chance - hence my dislike of not only the Cauldron's mechanics, but also the Spire system of awarding Magic Buildings & Artifacts via low % chances).

Also relevant to this is the fact, as already established on Beta pre-Live release of the Caulcron, that anyone aiming for particular rather than broad-scale Cauldron Potion effects is better advised to earn a specific and limited number of Diplomas rather than as many as possible. The optimal number for players [like me] who would be hoping to achieve the Military boosts, including the Merc Camp ones, is 11 Diplomas, according to those who understand the Cauldron best - and these can be earned by completing any Chapters, in any order, rather than by sequentially completing the first 11 Chapters, so completing earlier Optional Techs isn't unavoidable. This isn't made clear in-game, as far as I know, so @Herodite @Silmaril (re: feedback), perhaps it would be fair to explicitly make this clear at least in the Wiki, considering that at least some [real and irreversible] drawbacks*, as well as advantages, result from completing both Mandatory and Optional Research?

* Specifically : Mandatory Techs increase Tourney/Spire Squad Sizes & Catering costs, and Optional Techs can be needed to complete Event Quests.

Speaking personally, I'm still not happy enough with my knowledge of the Cauldron's mechanics (not least how best to invest Resources in Witch Points in an affordable way) to open the Cauldron Tech in the Research Tree; I'm hoping that player-written Cauldron strategy guides will appear in due course, although I'm neither maths-capable nor gamefile-aware enough to create one. Otherwise I'd give it a go... I think it's necessary!

 

[Morning Town]

so...

"the cauldron will start to be involved with quests and requirements starting from January 31st, so if you haven't already, go and research it NOW!"

forum thoughts please... I have not researched, to this point, not that interested for my game play - it appears to be "strongly" indicated that rather than benefiting from its use (my choice) I / we will suffer a negative effect from not researching / using (not my choice).

Less than comfortable with being told what to do...old and grumpy!!

 

[Sir Derf]

I've only been skimming and haven't started dabbling, and I have a question...

Are all the resource needs reset each week and so don't gradually grow, like Crafting Recipes, or are there some resources that behave like buying Knowledge Points?

 

[Herodite]

@Sir Derf All the resources you use to exchange for Witch Points will continue to grow much like purchasing Knowledge Points.

Your Witch Points will reset every week so it's best to use all those up where you can!

Kind Regards

Herodite.

 

[kimkimkim]

so...

"the cauldron will start to be involved with quests and requirements starting from January 31st, so if you haven't already already, go and research it NOW!"

forum thoughts please... I have not researched, to this point, not that interested for my game play - it appears to be "strongly" indicated that rather than benefiting from its use (my choice) I / we will suffer a negative effect from not researching / using (not my choice).

I have not researched this and do not plan on researching it either......doing just fine without it, but please do tell us @Herodite ....Is researching the Cauldron a mandatory thing?, Will these such quests that involves the Cauldron be declineable?............more to come depending on your answers

 

[OldHag]

so...

"the cauldron will start to be involved with quests and requirements starting from January 31st, so if you haven't already already, go and research it NOW!"

I've already had 2 chapter20 quests that are related to the cauldron. One was to buy x number of witch points, and even though it asked for a low number of them, I didn't want to buy witch points but I like to do the chapter quests (I can't remember the 2nd one) and it's not yet the 31st of January so I don't know why they suddenly appeared.

 

[C-Nymph]

I've already had 2 chapter20 quests that are related to the cauldron. One was to buy x number of witch points, and even though it asked for a low number of them, I didn't want to buy witch points but I like to do the chapter quests (I can't remember the 2nd one) and it's not yet the 31st of January so I don't know why they suddenly appeared.

I had those too, but if you then decline one of the repeating declinable quests, your chapter questline gets triggered again

 

[OldHag]

I had those too, but if you then decline one of the repeating declinable quests, your chapter questline gets triggered

I think I declined the 2nd quest accidentally, but I haven't seen a 3rd cauldron quest since or yet. Thanks @C-Nymph

 

[C-Nymph]

"the cauldron will start to be involved with quests and requirements starting from January 31st, so if you haven't already already, go and research it NOW!"

If they will make it mandatory in event quests (without an OR option) that will force me to deplete my carefully built stock of goods further than I want to take it. I already took it as far as I wanted, I do not want to buy any more witch points, thank you very much. Let us choose how we want to play the game please! It's supposed to be a peaceful citybuilder, not a forced horror railroad that you can't escape from!

 

[Killiak]

@Herodite
Players: "hey, this cauldron thing isn't so great. We don't really enjoy it."
Inno: "Say no more, we will integrate it deeper into the game play!"

Excuse me? Has Inno gone collectively daft?

 

[Sir Derf]

@Sir Derf All the resources you use to exchange for Witch Points will continue to grow much like purchasing Knowledge Points.

Your Witch Points will reset every week so it's best to use all those up where you can!

Kind Regards

Herodite.

KP, you get 1/hour for free (plus from other buildings), but Buy KP has incrementally increasing costs.
WP, you lose unused and get a fresh bunch every week for free, but Buy WP has incrementally increasing costs.

got it.

 

[Herodite]

@Herodite
Players: "hey, this cauldron thing isn't so great. We don't really enjoy it."
Inno: "Say no more, we will integrate it deeper into the game play!"

Excuse me? Has Inno gone collectively daft?

I can't speak for any decisions but I am forwarding your comments and feedback as always!

Kind Regards

Herodite.

 

[FairyElina]

@OldHag , @C-Nymph it is useful to do these quests, to buy this witch points is not so difficult, but you will receive spell fragments and 80 diamonds if you perform Cauldron all quest. Why not? Better not decline them.

 

[Laurelin]

Well, I bothered to screenshot & edit this, so here it is, in all its glory... to me, it sounds almost like a threat, but maybe that's just me?! ...

@C-Nymph : I had a horrible feeling that exactly this was coming. In fact, I think we'll see more and more inter-dependence between the various 'Quests', 'Tasks', or whatever other thing they call these repeating obligations; Events requiring Cauldron requiring Spire requiring Tourney requiring FA, and ALL of these are very likely to be required by the [probably] next incoming new feature (Seasons), which already provides strong evidence of this trend. Beta has much info, of course.

And I normally don't object to this system, in principle, in other games I play which already use it. In fact, Inno's strategy for all of its major new additions in the past year or more, from Leagues to Cauldron to that other thing still on Beta, is apparently this : Copy other games' ideas. As I say, not a bad thing per se, IMO; as I've already said on Beta, there's only so much you can do in any online game, and only so many ways to keep people engaged, and player-friendly repeating and/or inter-dependent content can not only be fun and rewarding, but also quite strategic in its own way; there's an art to saving up X function for Y purpose, and many games rely on it, both in mobile games and others long before.

However, it's Inno's METHOD of implementing this non-original content to which I object. They take a good idea from another game, develop it quite nicely code-wise and certainly art-wise, a few bugs aside, and then they (a) double or triple the cost (both Resources-wise and, of course, there's always Premium options); (b) remove most of the player-friendliness, aspects of choice, and player control of their own gameplay style; and, worst of all IMO, (c) add or much increase the extent to which RNG is involved.

Why not just short-cut to the increasingly evident motive behind all of this, in a game which is advertised as being strategic : introduce a feature whereby we spin a wheel and pay a random sum of Diamonds to AVOID the next upcoming 'optional' feature of our choice?! Joke... JOKE !! /sigh

That's why I'm not a fan. Otherwise, I'd probably enjoy strategically using Feature A within Feature B within Feature C, etc. Inno : lose the RNG!

 

[C-Nymph]

@OldHag , @C-Nymph it is useful to do these quests, to buy this witch points is not so difficult, but you will receive spell fragments and 80 diamonds if you perform Cauldron all quest. Why not? Better not decline them.

I did quests about the Cauldron. I was just helping OldHag get back his chapter quests

 

[C-Nymph]

I had a horrible feeling that exactly this was coming. In fact, I think we'll see more and more inter-dependence between the various 'Quests', 'Tasks', or whatever other thing they call these repeating obligations [...]

[...] introduce a feature whereby we spin a wheel and pay a random sum of Diamonds to AVOID the next upcoming 'optional' feature of our choice?!

It's all just greed. I don't even believe they want to keep players engaged. They probably don't even mind if long term players leave. They might even want that, because we're the ones giving them criticism, new players don't know their ways to the forums. And I recall that they at some point even admitted that they get the most money from players in the first three months of play. So even if we were to quit, they wouldn't care, because instead of us, some ten other random players will install the game that looks like a fun city building game, try it out for a few months, maybe spend a few diamonds, and then decide it's too much hastle, and quit again. And that's exactly what Inno calls "the game is working as intended".

It all went downhill from the moment they made it a mobile game instead of just browser based. And when Modern Times Group got their hands on the majority of shares. Just check out their timeline around 2016-2017: https://www.innogames.com/company/about-us/
All they talk about is revenue. Maybe we should look into buying some of that MTG stock, get some money back!

I don't know, I'm not even sure I care anymore. I've thought about quitting a couple of times, mainly because it is taking up more and more of my time with all these different features, but I'm a team player and I love giving leadership to this great group of kind fellows, some of whom have become sort of friends. So I think it's the power of the fellowship more than the game itself that is keeping me here. People>Inno.