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The Cauldron

OldHag

Necromancer
What the hell is this all about.....lol
So far, I've brewed one potion (I think) I ended up adding a total of 18 ingredients, by adding and removing each ingredient, each time to check the effects of each ingredient.
I have absolutely no clue nor was there any indication what each added ingredient cost. I don't see any resources being removed (I thought it would be similar to the spire, in that when you leave the spire after negotiating, you can see how many resources are removed from your stock).
From adding those 18 ingredients and clicking brew, I got 1.3% merc camp units health (1hr and a bit) - training grounds unit strength 3.3% for 1hr 30mins and and 7.6% supply production boost for 4hrs 45mins
This is confusing, very poorly explained (including the video) and if you can't see what the cost is, it's risky.

Edit - It seems very similar to the 'new style' event we had not so long back.
 
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SpaceCowboy

Soothsayer
@OldHag Adding ingredients costs either Witch Points (which you get for free every week), or Diamonds. Which ingredients cost Diamonds changes randomly every week. There's always 12 ingredients that cost Witch Points, and 4 that cost Diamonds.

The cost of each ingredient is shown right below the button for that ingredient. The total cost for the potion is shown right above the Brew! button. This is illustrated in the wiki here (the second picture in that section).

The only place to spend resources in the Cauldron is during the Studying Phase, where you can buy extra Witch Points for resources, as shown here.
 

Killiak

Artisan
@Herodite
Feedback time:
- Far too much RNG involved, even with a decent recipe you have a high chance for crap
- Boost times are FAR too short. You put in tremendous effort to get a high level boost, and you get... 10 hours a week.
- The resource screen when swapping for Witch Points swaps back to Marble without warning. Very bad, very costly!
- The cost increase for witch points beyond a certain point is very high. In the order of 800k+ for 2000 witch points
- Level 50 in a recipe costs 10k+ witch points. Combine that with the above? Ridiculous Inno, what are you smoking!?
- The UI is not very intuitive, very little pointers imo on how it works.

Basically this is a Super-RNG heavy resource-dump, with very poor reliability and short boosts, which still needs a lot of work to be any kind of viable for cities. It has issues with the UI, swapping resource when you don't want it to, AND it's not very intuitive.

Sorry to say, I feel this addition is extremely underwhelming and poorly calculated. Not impressed nor happy.
 
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C-Nymph

Necromancer
- The cost increase for witch points beyond a certain point is very high. In the order of 800k+ for 2000 witch points
- Level 50 in a recipe costs 10k+ witch points. Combine that with the above? Ridiculous Inno, what are you smoking!?
I had a go at "improving the effects", because I had resources to spend and it didn't seem to be too expensive at first glance. But the costs rise exponentially, so that the 70 mil marble I had is now down to 37 mil, mostly because I (stupidly) didn't notice that when looking at something else in the game and then going back to the cauldron, the preferred/selected resource to donate switches back to marble. So at a careless moment, I unknowingly increased the cost to 900K marble PER CLICK. I am scared to click anything else now, because before you know it, you can unknowingly (or carelessly) deplete your entire stack of one resource type.

The amount of witch points you need to increase an effect to another level also rises exponentially. The costs get rather high when you get above level 50, as Killiak above here describes. I have one effect at level 80 now and to get it to level 81 requires 186K witch points. Imagine that if I were to continue spending marble, the next click would cost 900K marble and 'only' gives 2000 witch points. It doesn't require a genius to calculate that this is a ridiculous demand.
 
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Killiak

Artisan
I had a go at "improving the effects", because I had resources to spend and it didn't seem to be too expensive at first glance. But the costs rise exponentially, so that the 70 mil marble I had is now down to 37 mil, mostly because I (stupidly) didn't notice that when looking at something else in the game and then going back to the cauldron, the preferred/selected resource to donate switches back to marble. So at a careless moment, I unknowingly increased the cost to 900K marble PER CLICK. I am scared to click anything else now, because before you know it, you can unknowingly (or carelessly) deplete your entire stack of one resource type.

The amount of witch points you need to increase an effect to another level also rises exponentially. The costs get rather high when you get above level 50, as Killiak above here describes. I have one effect at level 80 now and to get it to level 81 requires 186K witch points. Imagine that if I were to continue spending marble, the next click would cost 900K marble and 'only' gives 2000 witch points. It doesn't require a genius to calculate that this is a ridiculous demand.

So level 81 for 186.000 points.
With 2000 points per click, that would be 93 clicks.... even if the amount of witch points per click goes up slightly, let's say you need 80 clicks then. Even if you switch to another resource, that will just make it stupid expensive for THAT resource real quick.
 
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m4rt1n

Adept
I have everything level 40 and some 55, spread the resources and notice that at around 10k resource needed the costs get very silly very quickly, also as said the effects last such a short time and the huge RNG variables make it almost impossible to get something you actually need.

Seems Inno just made another place to dump "excess" with little return, wholesaler, the Spire (not so bad if a good fellowship can get all the free diamonds) and now the Cauldron. I will give it time though to see if it helps but this week did not even notice the extra foods for the 5 hours I won on collection even when it was 40%, so can only assume the percentage gains are on the base level as usual and not on the current production level.

For example basic good steel I have the base production of 1350 every 3 hours, relic 700% boost adds 9450, AW's add 2268 and then the Cauldron adds around 500-600 extra per 3 hours so 2 collects in the 5 or so hours for the week is basically buttons to a billionaire...
 
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m4rt1n

Adept
An important point to note, to unlock all the effects, via getting all the scrolls available, 1 per chapter, you will need to go back into research and unlock ALL optional research, Squad size upgrades for example.
 

C-Nymph

Necromancer
can only assume the percentage gains are on the base level as usual and not on the current production level.
This is true. A 29,8% bonus effect from a potion on basic ascended goods production gives a whopping 746 extra on a total of 22K production (9h). Same for a 38,3% bonus effect on refined standard goods production gives the 'much needed' extra amount of... drumroll... 919 on a total of 24K production (9h). To use a Dutch saying: dat slaat nog geen deuk in een pakje boter (the bonus is so weak, it doesn't leave a dent in a pack of butter). The costs however almost require you to sell a kidney...

@Herodite: you might want to change the wording on the wiki a bit...
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C-Nymph

Necromancer
Unless these costs reset weekly, making it mainly a time investment, I don't see how the Cauldron is worth the resources.
If they plan to reset them weekly, they should have announced that prior to a whole lot of players already having spent an enormous amount of resources. I’ll be very unhappy and will definitely demand my resources back if this is true.
 

m4rt1n

Adept
Unless these costs reset weekly, making it mainly a time investment, I don't see how the Cauldron is worth the resources.

As far as I am aware, the goods used to boost the bonuses (Buy Witch Points) are one time only and they stay at that level forever, you get a reset on Witch Points and Trophy Goblets weekly, these are given free each week dependant on chapter and your personal previous weekly tourney score that maxes at 2000 points, so make sure you use up ALL Witch Points before the weekly reset.
 

SpaceCowboy

Soothsayer
The effects around standard goods do seem pretty weak in general. Other examples are the Great Bell Spire (the bonus goods in the chests are completely irrelevant) and the feeding effect of the Watchful Winter Owl (I'm sure there's more). I guess it's because these don't decay.

Seems Inno just made another place to dump "excess" with little return, wholesaler, the Spire (not so bad if a good fellowship can get all the free diamonds) and now the Cauldron.
Funny you mention that - the wholesaler is now actually by far my main source of standard goods. I have 9 marble, 5 crystal and 3 elixir manufactories, and I still get more from the wholesaler than from all those combined. This is the power of a level 31 Blooming Trader Guild. This makes me wonder if there maybe will be some AW that boosts Cauldron effects?

Regarding overall effect strength in the Cauldron - I think leveling up the effects plays a smaller part here, it's supposed to be a long term investment (Elvenar is a game of patience). The more significant impact seems to come from the spell fragments you add to your potion. So we need to put more effort into our spell fragment economy. This is for example a good sink for extra enchantments and instants. I found that protal profit instants are by far the most potent source of spell fragments when disenchanted, and people always whine when they get those from the Spire :)
 

Jake65

Sage
I found that protal profit instants are by far the most potent source of spell fragments when disenchanted, and people always whine when they get those from the Spire
I was one of those.
I changed my tune when I caught on to how many spell fragments a paltry pffttt is worth.
Now I like getting them :)
 

RainbowElvira

Sorcerer
You know we witches like to carry some potions with us. Whenever you need an effect, take a potion, down it and you're set. Very handy, the perfect addition to enchantments and instants.

When the shiny new cauldron arrived, I happily asked my sorceress to brew some stuff to help our poor mercenaries. She did, but... she forgot the preserving agent! Can you imagine? I had to drink the whole cauldron at once!

The Cauldron is great, but please give me a better sorceress. I want to use the potion when I see fit and not 5 potions at once as soon as its brewed.
 

tommybob

Novice
Am I understanding that the level upgrades after brewing stay for the future? If so, perhaps the strategy is to brew a minimal potion and use witch point mainly for future power?
 

Herodite

Forum mod extraordinaire
Elvenar Team
Am I understanding that the level upgrades after brewing stay for the future? If so, perhaps the strategy is to brew a minimal potion and use witch point mainly for future power?

That's correct! And make sure every week to spend all Witch Points as they reset for the following week!

Kind Regards

Herodite.
 

Jake65

Sage
Feedback time:
2nd week of brewing and got a 60% standard goods boost for over 4 hours. 50% plus 10% from 2000 spell fragments.
Even though it's on the basic production it's good timing with the FA.

I think there's the risk (for the slightly impatient) of it being a massive black hole for resources but letting it slowly grow over time could make it quite valuable. RNG permitting of course ;)

Although the initial benefits can be underwhelming, I think we need to keep in mind that it has a footprint of zero (the MA is already there) and a cost of zero if you're prepared to wait.

Thanks Inno, I like it :)
 

Laurelin

Sorcerer
2nd week of brewing and got a 60% standard goods boost for over 4 hours. 50% plus 10% from 2000 spell fragments.
Good result! But what annoys me is the random chance that the next time you do the same thing you might get a better/worse effect/duration (or a different effect - or a duplicate effect (or several!) - or none at all (and 'no effect' can also be duplicated). Also, Spell Fragments aren't sustainable without Disenchanting, even for me in Ch.13 Amuni, with merely average Crafting activity, and with 2 x Moonstone Sets. A useful SF sink for long-termers who have overstocks, but for most, a lesser & more random return on investment than the known rewards which Crafting offers.

Oh, and yet another 'encouragement' for players to sink even more Resources inc. Units (and time...) into the Spire, which is becoming an ever-more central part of the game, like it or not (and I don't). It was always meant to become the game's Premium Currency farm, but I'm still not a fan.

In fact, and in terms of RNG-centricity, it may be difficult to tell whether the Cauldron or the [somewhat] recent new Merge-style Event format involves more randomness... I've heard that the Event format in question relies upon [at least] RNG^5, but it's not yet known whether the Cauldron is even more random-heavy, because Beta's [and since its release, the US Forum's] mathematicians and gamefile-divers can't work out exactly how it functions. For something allegedly 'fun', the Cauldron is way too complicated, IMO, and its rewards far too poor for a once/week activity.

Even though it's on the basic production [...]
I do object to this. Almost all in-game calculations both imply and employ the Relic-Boosted Goods production rate - but without any explanation that this will be the case, some features, such as this, use the non-Boosted production rate instead. The Mountain Halls is another example.

I think there's the risk (for the slightly impatient) of it being a massive black hole for resources but letting it slowly grow over time could make it quite valuable. RNG permitting [...]
Ever since The Cauldron appeared on Beta, after MUCH build-up and even a Beta-and-then-FB player contest to name its ingredients, in the [for me] very disappointingly gambling-based and Resource-sinking form it presently enjoys (as I've said, I'd hoped for an actually strategic and frequently useful feature...), I've thought more along the lines of how [new] early-game players might (a) regard, and (b) use the Cauldron - bearing in mind how very heavily it's being promoted, and how frankly very boring and slow the early game now is - and considering, furthermore, that they have NO stocks of anything much? They're in enough trouble with the early Tech Tree changes depriving them of Coins & Supplies (and the removal/replacement of repeatable Chapter Quests is incoming, too), and of course there's also Events, FAs, etc. to encourage newer players to spend the Resources they do manage to save up, in return for either near-useless (in early Chapters) and/or paltry rewards.

Why is a late-game Resource sink, as Inno are implying this is meant to be, even available in Chapter 5...? Nothing is done without a reason.

Here's a possible one. I'm seeing this [revenue-generating] focus on poor & short-term (especially competition-based) but apparently 'shiny' rewards, at the expense of better long-term strategy, increasingly entering F2P games. It's not a promising trend to see [continuing] in Elvenar, IMO.

Although the initial benefits can be underwhelming, I think we need to keep in mind that it has a footprint of zero (the MA is already there) and a cost of zero if you're prepared to wait.
See above, though. If this feature is not only a Resource sink for late-gamers, who at least have large stocks of many Resources and (one hopes) the knowledge that Elvenar rewards long-term patience, but is also what amounts to a snare for early players with few or any Spire Diamonds to spend, but with increasing numbers of in-game features to spend them on, then I'll start being even less impressed with the motivation of Inno's management (not their coders, artists, or community-facing staff, just to be clear!) than I have been ever since I started playing the game.

We'll see, but I can't help being reminded of Inno's own published data, in the gaming industry Press, that they obtain the large majority of revenue from players in their first six months, with players like you and me being seen as (in their words) 'residual' revenue sources. I find it very suspicious that one can't even use the same ingredients each week, without spending Diamonds on at least some of those which may turn out to be the most useful (and not a tiny amount of Diamonds, either, considering how few the average player actually earns in-game; most are far from being Gold Spire players) - even if one has enough Resources and time (and patience, and knowledge...) - again considering newbies, here - to work out how the Cauldron even functions [best, or at all], and/or which ingredient combos are the most useful to one's own gameplay needs.

Oh, and then you need the RNG to smile upon you to get even a judiciously researched potion effect to trigger at all (...for anyone who's not at end-game and maths-adept, and pre-aware of what and how to spend on the Cauldron, too, Resources-wise; it seems that only those [very few] players will be able, with extremely careful pre-calculation of Witch Points, expenditure, etc., to achieve a 100% chance of anything).

As for the forced simultaneous usage of all potions, which will cause many players to waste some Resources merely becoming aware of it : pfffft.

I spy not merely a Resource sink (poorly described and not well implemented), but also quite probably a money sink for the new and/or unwary.

PS : I'm not picking on you, @Jake65! I admire your optimistic attitude. Your comment was just the most recent one when I logged on today, and although I've been trying not to add any more whingeing to my ongoing Beta Forum indulgence in same, I'm really disappointed in this thing.
 
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