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Surplus Rune Shards can be swapped for Knowledge Points - now in Beta

rock stream

Scholar
Unbalanced AW investments are inhibited, but they have always been against the rules.
I have reread the rules and I can't find any reference to "unbalanced AW investments". We had a player leave the game and they put hundreds of kp in to lower level players AW with no problem.
...15 AW kp per shard if they do a fair swap with any other player.
Do you have a guess on what fair is, 1 to 1 or even 2 to 1?

I found the answers on the Beta forum. See below.
 
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Sir Derf

Sage
Well, I'll guess it's at least 40 AWKP unbalance of donation versus reception, as my fellowship has had a 50 AWKP swap thread, and I don't recall being blocked from providing that final AWKP donation.
 

rock stream

Scholar
1. This is a new game control, not activate on live servers yet.
2. Your weekly imbalance allowance is 560 points and your base imbalanced allowance is 2,840
3. Seems limit is increased by 80 every day (at the time when resources decay).

I guess free KP from perk is also included in balance. and getting free KP from the whole FS to a single player every day is actually a pushing which they are fighting with.

In all with this recently discover info more advanced players should be able to help the junior players in the fellowship a fair bit.
 

Far Reach

Conjurer
I have reread the rules and I can't find any reference to "unbalanced AW investments". We had a player leave the game and they put hundreds of kp in to lower level players AW with no problem.
Do you have a guess on what fair is, 1 to 1 or even 2 to 1?

I found the answers on the Beta forum. See below.

Rule 7 on Pushing says: Operating a “push-account” is forbidden. This is defined as unbalanced routine resource (resources, Knowledge Points etc.) transfers from one account to the next even if involved accounts do not belong to the same player.

I would interpret an unbalanced AW investment as an unbalanced transfer of Knowledge Points. (Indeed I can't think of any other way of causing an unbalanced transfer of Knowledge Points.) That said the mods (and not me) are obviously the right people to advise on the rules.
 
Before your high horse reaches a full gallop... from what I can see in the beta forum it sounds like the limit has been there for a while. It may be nothing new; it's just that normal players would never have hit it before. It also sounds like if you have been playing a while, and are normally balanced, you could have a buffer of thousands of kp recevied before the limit kicks in. Inno didn't like mention of the details, but there were some, and the limit seemed to operate on quite a long time scale anI knd be fairly relaxed on the whole.

It sounded like no regular player should be affected. The problem with the rune kp was that in FS with multiple maxed players they suddenly had literally hundreds of thousands of kp that they couldn't use themselves. And when they tried to drop it on non-maxed players... they ran into the limit. Which is probably a good thing on the whole.

I pretty well known 3 players in specific that handle from 4 to 8 push accounts in my server ( 2 of them are friends of mine, who personally have told me they are the owners of those accounts which only goal in the game is to feed an unic main account), so these players with all those "push" accounts can donate thousands of KP into their own AWs without any restriction in all their history playing Elvenar. I personally, as said above, have donated in some players quantities around 500 to 1000 KP without receiving nothing in exchange from them, and never EVER have had any actual restriction in my life time in Elvenar. This is a new feature I´m afraid since many players with push accounts (with the specific time boosters of course) can upgrade 2/3 even 4 levels of a certain AW in the same day without nothing as a limit has been reported in this forum ever.
 
Rule 7 on Pushing says: Operating a “push-account” is forbidden. This is defined as unbalanced routine resource (resources, Knowledge Points etc.) transfers from one account to the next even if involved accounts do not belong to the same player.

I would interpret an unbalanced AW investment as an unbalanced transfer of Knowledge Points. (Indeed I can't think of any other way of causing an unbalanced transfer of Knowledge Points.) That said the mods (and not me) are obviously the right people to advise on the rules.
Even tho, they don´t specify a "limitation" in KP quantities. This new "amazing" feature of shards to KP is being introduced with something no that "amazing" under it.
 
1. This is a new game control, not activate on live servers yet.
2. Your weekly imbalance allowance is 560 points and your base imbalanced allowance is 2,840
3. Seems limit is increased by 80 every day (at the time when resources decay).

Oh my God, so now they are telling me what to do with the speed I upgrade my AWs? Definetely, if all this as you´re explaining is what´s going to happen, it would turn in one big mistake from Inno, AGAIN....
 

rock stream

Scholar
Oh my God, so now they are telling me what to do with the speed I upgrade my AWs? Definetely, if all this as you´re explaining is what´s going to happen, it would turn in one big mistake from Inno, AGAIN....
This information is being dribbled out by Inno and/or pre release testers which provide highly accurate insights in the Beta forum. I do not see how it will impact "the speed I upgrade my AW's". The boundaries being proposed still allows for help for newer players in the fellowship although it drags it out.
 
This information is being dribbled out by Inno and/or pre release testers which provide highly accurate insights in the Beta forum. I do not see how it will impact "the speed I upgrade my AW's". The boundaries being proposed still allows for help for newer players in the fellowship although it drags it out.
Some players exchange too much more KP than that cypher you´re posting of "weekly and base imbalance",and in the case that cyphers were wrong, they (inno) definitely are putting a "number" that you won´t be able to pass, all this in matter of KP exchange amounts, so they in fact would be limiting the speed in which some players would be upgrading their AWs.
 

FieryArien

Necromancer
Some players exchange too much more KP than that cypher you´re posting of "weekly and base imbalance",and in the case that cyphers were wrong, they (inno) definitely are putting a "number" that you won´t be able to pass, all this in matter of KP exchange amounts, so they in fact would be limiting the speed in which some players would be upgrading their AWs.
It seems to me you perceive the limit as the amount of KP you are allowed to put to wonders of other. But that’s not the case. It’s the (running) imbalance between the number of KP you receive from others and number of KP you give to others.

Maybe crude example will help: let’s say your fellowship uses swap threads. And let’s say you and your fellowship are very active in using it. Let’s say you personally swap 10k KPs using those KP threads in a day and upgrade several wonders. NEITHER YOU, NOR YOUR FELLOWSHIP MEMBERS WILL BE HIT BY THE LIMIT. Why? Because while receiving KP depletes the quota, giving out KP increases it. And that’s exactly what happens when swapping KP between members.
 
It seems to me you perceive the limit as the amount of KP you are allowed to put to wonders of other. But that’s not the case. It’s the (running) imbalance between the number of KP you receive from others and number of KP you give to others.

Maybe crude example will help: let’s say your fellowship uses swap threads. And let’s say you and your fellowship are very active in using it. Let’s say you personally swap 10k KPs using those KP threads in a day and upgrade several wonders. NEITHER YOU, NOR YOUR FELLOWSHIP MEMBERS WILL BE HIT BY THE LIMIT. Why? Because while receiving KP depletes the quota, giving out KP increases it. And that’s exactly what happens when swapping KP between members.
I exactly know what a "balance" in kp exchange means, that´s not what I was referring here.
Some players just donate hundreds of KP to their own AWs, to others (without receiving any kp back) or some in the case of the WS system donate to specific targets hundreds of KP that wont be paid back until they are the target, this is what I was refering to, I´m sorry if my writing is not that clear, Im not a english native speaker.
 

Pauly7

Master of the Elements
Taking the cynical approach, as I often do - Is it possible that Inno are just trying to clip the wings of the top tournament performers by giving them access to loads more AW levels that they won't need. How many people will be tempted to add 10 free levels to their Tome of Secrets or Crystal Lighthouse and thereby probably diminishing their tournament powers?
 

FieryArien

Necromancer
(…) or some in the case of the WS system donate to specific targets hundreds of KP that wont be paid back until they are the target,
The first cases you listed were already discussed, so I’ll respond just to this scenario. I’ve never used WS system, but I have some idea of the mechanics. If I understand you correctly, it is possible to get to a situation when a player stays at the top of the list for many thousands of KP and that player at the same time doesn’t donate (significant) KP to other players’ wonders. Do I understand you correctly? If that’s what’s (sometimes) happening in the WS system, than the system is indeed screwed by the new changes. Sorry. :(

Just a thought. Would it be possible to modify the WS system so it prevents such “DoS attack” on a player? ;) I’m no spreadsheet wizard, but I imagine there are people who might be able to do the necessary magic …
 
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Turing

Soothsayer
The first cases you listed were already discussed, so I’ll respond just to this scenario. I’ve never used WS system, but I have some idea of the mechanics. If I understand you correctly, it is possible to get to a situation when a player stays at the top of the list for many thousands of KP and that player at the same time doesn’t donate (significant) KP to other players’ wonders. Do I understand you correctly?

It should be impossible. WS tracks total donations, and queues up AWs to be filled based on who has the best net donation (ie put most in minus amount received, minus chests won). So once the person first in the queue has their AW filled, that's a big negative balance and they'll be at the back of the queue. A player may receive hundreds, maybe 1k-2k with donating back - as that's the cost of their high-level AW being filled. But Inno's system would let a balanced, high-level player receive many thousands before limiting.

In fact the balance Inno are calculating and the WS balance sound like they are almost identical. So if WS calculates that you are owed donations, Inno will think the same
 

Hekata

Summoner
Taking the cynical approach, as I often do - Is it possible that Inno are just trying to clip the wings of the top tournament performers by giving them access to loads more AW levels that they won't need. How many people will be tempted to add 10 free levels to their Tome of Secrets or Crystal Lighthouse and thereby probably diminishing their tournament powers?
Haha, that was my first thought too :D Along with a feeling of disappointment that I have 0 use of this new feature since all my useful AWs except 1 have reached the level I need them to be.
 

Pauly7

Master of the Elements
Haha, that was my first thought too :D Along with a feeling of disappointment that I have 0 use of this new feature since all my useful AWs except 1 have reached the level I need them to be.
Yeah I thought that too. I have a couple more levels to add to my Flying Academy and about the last 3 on my Simia Sapiens, then I'm all done.
 

Jackluyt

Necromancer
Any news yet when this is coming to live world yet.

It was supposed to go to EN server for more testing and later to the rest of the worlds. One presumes that they may be having some kind of rethink because that does not seem to be happening.
:)
 
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