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Surplus Rune Shards can be swapped for Knowledge Points - now in Beta

rock stream

Scholar
Squad size and catering costs for the Spire are going to be impacted big time with all the additional AW levels. While prior to this change there was an amount of harmony between increased difficultly and researched fighter improvement.
The fellowship progression possible benefits are narrowed to 2 items.
I think this could be a big benefit to catering only players.
 

Gargon667

Mentor
I like the change, I have always been asking for things to do with all the garbage resources we accumulate, like Spell fragments, runes, relics and lately KP and PP instants. So being able to interchange them is at least better than not being able to interchange them...
For me personally it makes no difference as all the AWs I want are maxed and the ones I don´t want, I don´t want no matter how many free KP I have. Some people will benefit from it and that is a good thing. In general it will make AWs much easier accessible to newer active players, it also increases the need for informed decisions of course on which AWs are good and which are bad... my guess is most people will just as always upgrade useless stuff to a point where it costs them more KP from the tourney than they gain by exchanging shards lol, but that is their problem. The people that read up and make good choices will benefit.
 

talimswift

Novice
Whats the use of playing tourney? Well, for one thing, this new feature actually makes round 6 of tourney worth the trouble. Most high end players would just push to round 5 on most maps, since round 6 was giving pretty much useless stuff, unless you were at that point in your wonder where stocking up broken shards to turn that rune phase faster
 

alsael

Enchanter
Whats the use of playing tourney? Well, for one thing, this new feature actually makes round 6 of tourney worth the trouble. Most high end players would just push to round 5 on most maps, since round 6 was giving pretty much useless stuff, unless you were at that point in your wonder where stocking up broken shards to turn that rune phase faster
so true,Now I will play round 6;)
 

DeletedUser6472

Guest
After reading comments from beta players on this feature, I have a question for Inno: "Why can't you give us something nice for a change, without ruining anything???" If there are some limitations applied with an introduction of this game feature, I don't want them! Just leave everything as it is! The current system sounds too complicated and limiting. I know that many players have a big stash of rune shards, but they have accumulated it for years. After we'll spend those rune shards, the process of upgrading AWs will become again slow (a little bit faster, than it is right now) and stable.
 

Far Reach

Conjurer
After reading comments from beta players on this feature, I have a question for Inno: "Why can't you give us something nice for a change, without ruining anything???" If there are some limitations applied with an introduction of this game feature, I don't want them! Just leave everything as it is! The current system sounds too complicated and limiting. I know that many players have a big stash of rune shards, but they have accumulated it for years. After we'll spend those rune shards, the process of upgrading AWs will become again slow (a little bit faster, than it is right now) and stable.

Possibly I'm misreading it, but as far as I can see the "limitations" which you are referring to are a separate measure to stop pushing. This shouldn't be an issue for players who are playing fairly.
 

DeletedUser6472

Guest
Possibly I'm misreading it, but as far as I can see the "limitations" which you are referring to are a separate measure to stop pushing. This shouldn't be an issue for players who are playing fairly.
I hope you are right. I guess we'll find out, when it hits live worlds, however, if it has been already noticed by beta players and they've hit the wall, then it's something that can mess up with our KP swap systems. Also, if it's too complicated, then it's so much extra work for me, as AM, to explain, rearrange, etc.
 

CrazyWizard

Shaman
I hope you are right. I guess we'll find out, when it hits live worlds, however, if it has been already noticed by beta players and they've hit the wall, then it's something that can mess up with our KP swap systems. Also, if it's too complicated, then it's so much extra work for me, as AM, to explain, rearrange, etc.
Your balance between points you put into wonders of others and points you recieve in wonders should not be to much out of whack.
Thats that the system does. if you give away 1000 KP and you recieve 10.000kp thats sounds a little bit unfair and that part is blocked. in almost all cases this is because of pushing.
 

DeletedUser6472

Guest
Your balance between points you put into wonders of others and points you recieve in wonders should not be to much out of whack.
Thats that the system does. if you give away 1000 KP and you recieve 10.000kp thats sounds a little bit unfair and that part is blocked. in almost all cases this is because of pushing.
That sounds reasonable. We'll have to wait and see, what that balance actually is and how it might interfere, if at all, with our kp swap system.
 

Jackluyt

Shaman
RUNE SHARDS DONATION - UPDATE:
A system in Beta is trialing whereby one can swap one unwanted Rune Shards for 10 Knowledge Points in your own Ancient Wonder, or 15 KP if you donate to a friend. This system is apparently going to be trialed on the EN server first before it is released generally to the other Live servers.

A 'problem' we have encountered in Beta is that some players have up to 500 Rune Shards of several types which they will never use, so there is a frenzy of donation of these KP to all the fellowship members, which helps everyone to upgrade their Wonders very quickly - making more powerful cities, and increasing fellowship and personal ranking points. Unfortunately if one player receives too many 'gifts' this triggers a block on receiving any more - which is done deliberately to slow down those players who have multiple 'Push Accounts', used to feed themselves KP and goods.

This limit is only a problem if one player gets KP bombed by a bunch of well-meaning people in the same day and they have not returned any KP yet. And all that happens is no one can give that player any more KP until they balance it out by giving back. If someone does receive too much in one day, players will see a message in-game that tells them that player cannot receive any more KP right now, so the designers are not keeping that part a secret, just the exact numbers.
This is not something new! - the limit has always been there to prevent players operating small Push Accounts from which they deluge their main city with thousands of Knowledge Points. That is not allowed - 'alt' cities are allowed, but they have to stand alone in their own right and must more-or-less receive as much as they are giving. The reason the limit is suddenly newsworthy is that when someone like myself has thousands of unwanted Rune Shards and starts giving them generously to friends, it is possible for those players to receive rather more KP in a day than they ever did before.

Obviously InnoGames cannot give more details about this limit - because that would be playing into the hands of those who love to bend the system rules, helping them to find a work around strategy.
We have been asked not to discuss the details of this limit further in the Beta Forum, as InnoGames are not going to release the precise workings of their anti-Push measures - which is their right, of course.
:)

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cwgiii

Shaman
Interesting. My initial assumption would have been that the "limit" would have been from filling the KP bar on a particular AW (or all of the AWs for that particular friend). The player could not receive any more KP until that AW (or another in their city) was upgraded. From your description, I gather that it has been determined that this is not the case, and Inno has assigned some other arbitrary limit.
 

rock stream

Scholar
If I understand this correctly beta 1 is the Germany server. Beta 2 is the beta server. Beta #3 is the EN server. Make beta 3 the US server. They would like that :D ;). You'd get lots of feedback that way.
So the ability to help lower level players within a fellowship, who cannot match KP donations, is now restricted. Trading among higher level players is now encouraged so they can max out their AW's. This change went from yeah to blaa quicker than the speed of a just washed car finding a bird with digestive issues.
 

Far Reach

Conjurer
So the ability to help lower level players within a fellowship, who cannot match KP donations, is now restricted. Trading among higher level players is now encouraged so they can max out their AW's. This change went from yeah to blaa quicker than the speed of a just washed car finding a bird with digestive issues.

I don't understand the problem.

As far as rune shards are concerned: Any player can obtain 10 AW kp per shard if they put shards directly into their own Wonder, or 15 AW kp per shard if they do a fair swap with any other player.

Unbalanced AW investments are inhibited, but they have always been against the rules.
 

OldHag

Scholar
I'll take whatever is on offer for free, thanks :)

I'm curious about this limit though, not sure if I'm understanding it correctly or not, but would it not be detrimental to a new player to be flooded with kp gifts from their fs mates as they would quickly reach 'the limit' and may not have enough of a required artefact to be able to repay said gifts and therefore their progress on aw upgrades would be temporarily halted?

As for myself, I have a few tucked away wink, wink, so I'm happy with the addition.
 

Far Reach

Conjurer
I'm curious about this limit though, not sure if I'm understanding it correctly or not, but would it not be detrimental to a new player to be flooded with kp gifts from their fs mates as they would quickly reach 'the limit' and may not have enough of a required artefact to be able to repay said gifts and therefore their progress on aw upgrades would be temporarily halted?

The rate at which a player can level their wonders is mainly determined by how many kp, instants and rune shards they can earn for themselves. Trading AW kps with other players is mutual beneficial (because of reward chests and shard bonuses), but ultimately the player has to have earned the base resources to trade.

The limit only kicks in if a player is receiving far more than they are donating. All of the KP swap methods (which I'm aware of) aim to produce fair trades. I don't see what scheme a FW would be likely to adopt (otherwise than explicitly pushing resources to newer players) which would create the scenario you describe.
 

DeletedUser501

Enchanter
I have friends which sometimes drop me 100 or 200 or even more KP in my AWs, and I sometimes (not at the same time they donated those quantities) drop them almost the same quantity, it means we now won´t be able to donate whatever amount we please to whatever player in the game if they don´t contribute with the same amount of KP to ours AWs at the same time?
So these introductions were just a bait them? Giving a good change to secretly introduce a device to censure and monitorize your game?
What Inno should do instead of putting all players under some "1984" rules is just banning the push accounts when they are detected NOT censuring the capability of players to donate whatever they want.
 
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Turing

Bard
I have friends which sometimes drop me 100 or 200 or even more KP in my AWs, and I sometimes (not at the same time they donated those quantities) drop them almost the same quantity, it means we now won´t be able to donate whatever amount we please to whatever player in the game if they don´t contribute with the same amount of KP to ours AWs at the same time?
So these introductions were just a bait them? Giving a good change to secretly introduce a device to censure and monitorize your game?

What Inno should do instead of putting all players under some "1984" rules is just banning the push accounts when they are detected NOT censuring the capability of players to donate whatever they F..... want.

Before your high horse reaches a full gallop... from what I can see in the beta forum it sounds like the limit has been there for a while. It may be nothing new; it's just that normal players would never have hit it before. It also sounds like if you have been playing a while, and are normally balanced, you could have a buffer of thousands of kp recevied before the limit kicks in. Inno didn't like mention of the details, but there were some, and the limit seemed to operate on quite a long time scale and be fairly relaxed on the whole.

It sounded like no regular player should be affected. The problem with the rune kp was that in FS with multiple maxed players they suddenly had literally hundreds of thousands of kp that they couldn't use themselves. And when they tried to drop it on non-maxed players... they ran into the limit. Which is probably a good thing on the whole.
 

FieryArien

Necromancer
It’s unnecessary to hate the change based on partial info and own wild deductions. If genuinely interested, please read the discussion thread on the beta forum. It’s not super long, just please read it carefully, because the mechanics was described gradually as various details were gradually uncovered.

Comment about helping new players as complained about above: there is a buffer to cover temporary imbalances and some new points are accrued into this buffer every day. The low-level early-game wonders have quite small requirements. If you hit the limit when “helping” a new player, than sorry, but you are pushing that player. When you are not pushing that player and if that player gradually (as the city grows) joins in your fellowship’s wonder exchange system, I don’t think the limit will be reached.
 

FieryArien

Necromancer
from what I can see in the beta forum it sounds like the limit has been there for a while. It may be nothing new; it's just that normal players would never have hit it before.
From what I can see in the beta forum the functionality is indeed already implemented on the live servers, but the actual limit set here is “unlimited”. We simply cannot hit the limit if it’s not there.
 

Sir Derf

Mentor
Oh the noes. I really really want to help my fellow players, but I have to do it all today. If I can't send it all in one day and am forced to spread it out over a week or two, well that's 6 to 13 days that they won't be able to claim the benefits. Oh the injustices. :cool:

Seriously... It's not like runes currently decay...
 
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