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Discussion Summer Mermaids

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Dizzy Lizzie, Aug 1, 2019.

  1. Killiak

    Killiak Shaman

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2016
    You say it so often, that I am starting to feel tempted to do so. Just to see what it would do. :rolleyes:
     
    Timneh likes this.
  2. EdwardTrunk

    EdwardTrunk Bard

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2017
    This isn't the current main argument at all - it just seems to be your obsession and something that is entirely irrelevant to what is being discussed by the majority. Of course no-one is forced to participate if they don't want to - so what? This has no bearing whatsoever on discussions about whether the current event is proving enjoyable or satisfactory to those playing it, and the possible reasons for that.
     
  3. randblade

    randblade Alchemist

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2019
    This issues raised are categorically not forced vs optional, though that is what you seem to want to make it about Sir Derf.

    The issues raised are fair vs unfair.

    There are issues repeatedly raised, like requiring "T1 Boost" instead of simply "Any T1" ... that could be easily fixed and would make the events fair.
     
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  4. Sir Derf

    Sir Derf Enchanter

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2018
    To be fair, the thread, like many a conversation, has covered multiple sub-topics, both linearly and in a spreading and intersecting web. Yes, there was and is discussion of fair vs. unfair. My memory of this now 12-page thread is that some of those posts started using "force" word choices in describing how it was unfair, and I have been reacting to that in a divergent dialogue. My reference to "the current main argument" was referring to that branch of the discussion in responding to a post that I felt raised three separate points and so was getting three separate responses. I was not implying that the whole thread started with and was wholey focused on force vs. optional, just that my sub-conversation was.
     
  5. Flame Knight

    Flame Knight Spellcaster

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2019
    @Sir Derf I was one of the users of the word force, but at me you did not comment back at all about that.

    The continued ask for scouting and province completion in each event can push over-scouted players against the Orc wall. And as stated before, the game as well as the Wiki does not warn them.

    Fairness is an abstract concept, what is fair to one is unfair to others etc. Maybe no one should try to force an opinion, or try to change others opion about it. (Except for the Devs, we try to change their opinion :p) As everyone is entitled to their own concept of the idea. This thread is not about that, it is how people feel about the event if my memory serves me right.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
  6. RainbowElvira

    RainbowElvira Conjurer

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2018
    Wouldn't this "force" discussion be better off in the "Lounge" section?
     
    Lelanya likes this.
  7. Crowella

    Crowella Soothsayer

    Joined:
    May 13, 2019
    For me the main issue is not forced vs. optional or fair vs. unfair. It's fun vs. unfun. I think it's reasonable to provide feedback (positive and negative) about what we find fun, and to expect our gaming experience to maximize fun. Of course, people have different ideas about what is fun, which is why we all have the opportunity to post different views to the forum. Hopefully the devs will be able to use the feedback to maximize total fun.
     
  8. m4rt1n

    m4rt1n Summoner

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2017
    I thought there had been a tsunami in the night when I first saw the corals washed so far from the beaches.
     
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  9. tesla333

    tesla333 Soothsayer

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2019
    No, thats not the main argument. The main arguments are

    - people feeling frustrated with the punishing nature of the potentially ill conceived nature of some of the quests
    - people reiterating for the umpteenth time that "Finish"/"Scout"/"Upgrade" quests remain problematic
    - people reiterating fot the umpteenth time that 2x2 L1 boosted players are substantially disadvantaged
    - people stating that this "random" element disrupts game-play to a point where it is not enjoyable anymore.

    YOUR personal counterargument to all this is: "Well, if you don't like the event, don't play the event." And you keep underlining your argument by explaining to us what YOU think is important, necessary or relevant in the game.

    Your feedback to Inno basically is: Keep doing what you are doing, not because I like it but because a) these other people have no clue what is important in the game and b) if they don't like it, they can leave (which, btw, some are doing).

    Absolutely. Your are right and I hear you loud and clear.

    Me too mate, me too. I had a coral sitting in the infamous "above your city" spot for 2 days before I realised that Inno's definition of shore is vastly different from ... well, everybody else's
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 5, 2019
    m4rt1n, Lelanya and EdwardTrunk like this.
  10. Timneh

    Timneh Shaman

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2016
    I have used the word forced in this thread but i certainly did not say that i thought that players were being forced to take part in events. I said that some players are being forced to overscout by events calling for province completions and solve encounters.

    One player i talk with has had three complete a province quests out of 5 quests, one of the other ones was for 9 hour T1 productions i can't remember what the otherone was. That player has now quit the event because they said they play events for fun but this new format is far from fun.
    When i was doing NH visits just before this event started quite a few cities had extra T1 boosted manufactories, i would say that now maybe 25-30% of those cities no longer have those extra manufactories, i can only guess that the reason for selling them is because they have quit the event but to me that seems the most likely reason.
    Just out of interest has anyone seen any official word from INNO about why they changed to this new format ? i havn't looked but was wondering.
     
  11. Sir Derf

    Sir Derf Enchanter

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2018
    Again, I can't talk to the fun aspect. That's a personal metric based on personal weighting of personal factors. I can talk to if the game is forcing an action.

    Yes, to progress in the game, you need to solve encounters and complete provinces. And yes, there are costs to do that, and consequences if you do too many, too fast, i.e., overscout. And yes, events for quite a while have asked you to solve encounters and complete provinces. Let's ignore for the moment the question of whether participation in an event is required. As I've already pointed out, there is not necessarily a conflict with this. Plan ahead. Don't do all your expanding outside of events. Build your resources for negotiation and troops for fighting, scout ahead of time, and there you go.

    How long does it take you to go through a chapter? I was averaging about 3 months per chapter, so about 1 event per chapter, for quite a while. Even at twice that, I believe the math bears that you could have finished past quests, with their expansionist goals, and still not have been overscouting.

    If that is what you choose. If that is how you prepare.
     
  12. MinMax Gamer

    MinMax Gamer Soothsayer

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2019
    There is at least one player on US servers with 6x L10 Phoenixes (two of each) and 2x L10 Stonehenges.
     
  13. Lelanya

    Lelanya Summoner

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2016
    Oh yeah there is a player on EN1 with 2 Fire Phoenix; rank 4 I believe. Player also has all 3 Phoenix pets placed. It's clearly a diamond city (We're not allowed to identify other players so far as I know) @Viskyar
     
    Viskyar likes this.
  14. Pauly7

    Pauly7 Necromancer

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2017
    If it was never the intention for Phoenixes to be offered again, do we know for sure whether the effect of multiple Fire Phoenixes stack?
     
    yo momma love me likes this.
  15. Flame Knight

    Flame Knight Spellcaster

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2019
    Consequences that the game, and Wiki, do not warn players about. ie Orc Wall

    Again, if a player does not know about this Orc wall, there is not much planning to do to prevent hitting it.

    Same thing

    Problem is that it is hard to know what one needs if quests are random. Some players are unlucky and get bombarder with scouting and province completion quest, that can completely drain resources, no fun. Others hardly get these quests and are having no problems, not really 'fair'.

    If you scout ahead of time that contradicts "Don't do all your expanding outside of events."
    Scouting ahead of time also does nothing for events, as you need the scouting when needed. Players where scouting ahead only when they knew when that particular quest was asked during an event with the fixed questlines. Now there is a randomness to it and they get stuck for hours to days.

    All of the above only add to having less fun, or even frustration this event gives players. Having to wait is no fun. Getting drained either.
     
    tesla333 likes this.
  16. Sir Derf

    Sir Derf Enchanter

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2018
    Question - How many provinces are there before you hit the orc wall? If a player is studiously sticking to the scouting guidelines of the chests per chapter, would they get stuck?

    Also, don't you previously hit a T2 Wall and a T3 Wall?

    And if you end up hitting the orc wall in time for an event, it will halt that one event. That is a single issue, not a systemic problem that effects every event for all players, and does not prevent planing from being successful under most other circumstances.

    How many were you expecting to get? How many did you plan and prepare for, how many did you stock up resources for? How realistic were these expectations? Past events have asked for multiple scouts, boatloads of encounters, and multiple completed provinces. Further, given that this is an unlimited questline event, everyone will eventually run out of scouting/encounters/provinces, no matter how much preparation they do.

    I said "Don't do all", which obviously means "Do some". Do some scouting ahead of time, but don't scout to the limit, to have available provinces left to scout during the event. Do some encounters ahead of time, but don't solve all available encounters, to have available encounters left to solve during the event. Do some province completion ahead of time, but don't complete all available provinces, to have some provinces left to complete during the event. There is nothing incompatible with the participating in quests in not overscouting, if you had planned appropriately beforehand.
     
  17. tesla333

    tesla333 Soothsayer

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2019
    I admit that I don't have to say anything new to this topic.

    And it pains me to no small extent to say this as my final feedback: I have been home now for 5 hours. What used to be my favorite ritual - coming home, sitting down, going through my cities; rearranging, collecting goods, building stuff and in general enjoying a comfortable escape from daily life - is now something I find reasons to avoid. In the last 5 hours I have done dishes, washed my clothes and even rearranged furniture for one and only one reason: Having an excuse not to log into Elvenar.

    What used to be fun, entertaining and relaxing has become nothing more than a chore I try to avoid.

    Tes.. over and out.
     
  18. Timneh

    Timneh Shaman

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2016
    @tesla333 if it just the event that is making you feel that way just do as i have done and ignore it.
     
  19. Flame Knight

    Flame Knight Spellcaster

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2019
    Here we still go off-topic again.....

    222, and why would an unknowing player stick to guidelines? As the game does not tell them any.

    No, as you already can overscout about 1.5 chapter without getting hit by the higher tier after you researched them. And besides, one can trade for it.

    Not really, it is easy to overscout 2 whole chapters, and as you previously said that a chapter took you 3 months that is half a year then.
    We have had 3 events now in 2.5 months, so one can loose out on many bigger and smaller events. You can also not know how others play and how long it will take them, so expect several events at least.

    None, as I do not expect at all and scouting is not a personal problem for me.

    Very

    Speak for yourself, I do not have a scout or resource problem, I am gaining resources. The event will end before I will run out.


    Again you type down the same over and over and I will do the same. There are many players that do not know about the limits (Orc Wall) as the game does not tell them about it. So this is all moot to them, they do not know till they hit it and then can be stuck for months and forcably can not play several events, if there is no alternative. If alternatives like upgrade x buildings to x level is an alternative then it can limit them for days on end to get to these levels and have a higher probability to not finish events.

    I will not post in this thread anymore as you only seem to, post the same thing over and over, and want to derail this discussion and thus it is not going where it should go: feedback about the event.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
  20. Sir Derf

    Sir Derf Enchanter

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2018
    Wandering Moon - August 23 to September 4
    Harvest Festival - September 27 to October 22
    Headless Halloween - October 30 to November 9
    Winter Magic - December 3 to January 3
    Valentine's Event - Feb 7 to Feb 16
    Carnival - February 22 to March 15
    Evolution of the Phoenix - April 15 to May 12
    Summer Solstice - June 4 to June 29
    Queen of the Seas - July 8 to July 17
    Summer Mermaids - August 5 to August 29

    6 Major Events and 4 Short events - okay, I thought they came slightly further apart, but the majors were about every 2 months, not every 3, at least in the past year.

    For people who say that participation in these events force overscouting, I still think the math works out that if a player wanted to avoid overscouting, they could still have participated in past events without overscouting. And I will repeat that participation is forced in the first place.

    If you are saying that participation in events encourages overscouting; yup, I'll agree.
     

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