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Question Strategy for going into Dwarves

Cheryn

Bard
Hi Everyone, I tried to research this question and very sure it has been asked, but I cannot find anything that actually adresses it specifically. So here goes. What level do my buildings need to be before going into Dwarves chapter 6?

I was told to upgrade EVERYTHING as high as they will go, before entering Dwarves. This poses a problem for me since I added residences on the advice that I should have 40-50 before going to chapters 6 & 7. I would need several expansions to gain enough space to upgrade all the new residences - about a dozen or so (which I'm stuck at the 2x3 size on at the moment), and my existing residences would also require a few expansions because - don't they go up to 3x4? (not sure I'm right on that but I'm currently at 3x3. I'm not sure how far I can upgrade them yet while still in chapter 5, but most are level 9 or 10. This doesn't even include my magical residences which I can't seem to gain enough diamonds to upgrade at all, also at 2x3 size. My Main Hall is a level 11.

As I began to upgrade regularly, I noticed I am struggling to keep up with my culture. Then I read something that warned to be cautious about how far I upgrade because of the mad space that will be required in future chapters. I am totally CONFUSED now and unsure of what to do about this dilemma in order to ensure I don't find myself stuck in a box and crying in my keyboard. I truly don't want to be taking every single word of advice, because everyone has their own play style and and opinion. But it does seem to me that there should be some rule of thumb or constant to go by. Can anyone help clear this up for me? Thanks.
 

Gargon667

Mentor
Some buildings you definitely want to max out: Main Hall and Residences are among them. It´s better to have fewer residences but max level than what you are doing. But there is no magic number of how many you should have, it depends on what you do and how you do it. Just build more if you need more pop and sell them/teleport them if you have too much...
In my town I reached a peak in the early guest races as to number of houses. I was constantly building/upgrading more until something like chapter 6-8. After that the size increase in the residences makes up for your needs so you can have fewer and fewer again. Also playing the spire gives you lots of magic residences which further reduces the number of residences you need to keep.

I think most standard buildings can get to lvl 15 by the end of chapter 5, and I don´t think there is much reason not to bring all your buildings there. But after that it gets a bit more complicated.

Residences and MH definitely always keep maxing. Too many things depend on your MH and residences always increase in efficiency by upgrading them.

Factories are a different story they don´t always need to be maxed right away for max efficiency, They are kind of designed to grow slowly, even though you always get 4 levels at once (every 3rd guest race). In terms of efficiency it is best to do only 1 or 2 levels per chapter so you end up running the last upgrade right before you get the next 4 levels. Most people just go and max then right away (but waste a bunch of efficiency in the process). The reason for that is that your residences grow every chapter and you need higher efficiency residences to match your factories, otherwise the increase in pop requirements gets ahead of your pop production capacity. But that may be a bit advanced strategy, so feel free to ignore this if it doesn´t make sense to you :)

WS are another story: My suggestion is to play without them until chapter 15 (and then only use Magic WS), they are horribly inefficient buildings. No matter what level you upgrade them to, they always suck. I never had any and I am glad I didn´t :D But if you insist on having them I suppose max level is the least horrible level (as they get upgrades every chapter along with residences and so are always in sync)

Troop producing buildings: Definitely all MAX, most important buildings in your town :)

What else is there? Armories? Sorry don´t remember, I would assume 15 to start with, but then potentially same as factories? I can´t say.

If culture is a problem, use event buildings for population they add culture instead of costing culture, so in addition to needing fewer residences (which then frees up even more culture) you also gain lots of culture right away. Then add more culture by crafting a few Orc Strategists and Vallorian Valors, those are super nice troop producers and as a side benfit give lots of culture as well. Just stay away from the pure culture buildings (they do work in a pinch, if you´re desperate, but they don´t offer anything of real importance long term)
 

BlueBlou

Illusionist
Shoot, you have bad advisors, sorry to say. Very bad to prescribe how many residences you should have. That is determined by what else you are running. The aim is to have a balanced game and no two players will have the exact same game. You have to adjust as you go along.

I agree with most things that Gargon says. You do need to upgrade everything. Just going to make life easier for yourself later.

Where I differ is about the workshops. Unless you spend a lot of time in the spire in the lower chapters and got a lot of tool refills, you need about 5 ws in my experience. This may differ depending on how many tools you use daily.

Do not use all the research expansions you got in chapter 5 for building normal stuff. Keep those to build your guest race buildings which you will get in Chapter 6.
 

kurgkurg

Conjurer
This game is about balance - if you have something missing or very few - build more (and always fewer buildings in higher level is better than more buildings in lower level), if you have too much, it's not good too, it means you need to sell or teleport. Just hear your city and feel what it wants :)
The best effect is when you can do very good results in a smaller space
 

Cheryn

Bard
Wow! That is a LOT to digest Gargon, AND BlueBlou.

So I'm still kind of lost. Do I get rid of the new residences I built, and focus only on my originals (over 30), - or leave the new ones as they are but forget about trying to upgrade because of expansion needs? It will kill my population to sell them, which is already low (part of the reason I built them to begin with), but upgrading all older residences to level 15 should remedy that. I have never won a building of any kind in the spire - ever, let alone a magical one. I have only ever made it up maybe 5 sets of steps (at best) in any single, spire appearing time span.

As for factories, I don't have tons to upgrade those as there are not as many and I have been upgrading a little along my way. More behind on third tier factories but shouldn't be too bad. My workshops are almost caught up to my Main Hall, so a few more levels on those as well. Armories are a problem since I used to have 12 and scaled down to 6 because of their size increase and needing to gain culture. 6 won't be hard to catch up though, as they aren't that far behind my MH :( Everything else I have (Culture mostly or dual purpose) I can't upgrade as it doesn't offer or I don't have blueprints - like my magic academy. ARGH!
 

BlueBlou

Illusionist
@Cheryn, which world are you playing on? Perhaps having a peek at it will give me a better understanding of your dynamics.

Having enough people, having enough space, are some of the general challenges of the game. I would look at numbers. Usually you gain more people by upgrading your highest level house. If shape changes cause you to need more space, try and see when you can have more people when you have 2 houses at the higher lever than 3 houses at the lower level for example. In that case you can sell a house.

I think you have answered your own question with regards to the houses.

Armouries - same story. You can go less in number if your production is more than what you previously had. How many you need will be dependent on how often you access the game to collect troops and how fast your barracks is.

As a friend told me, never be afraid to sell something you don’t need anymore. That was the days before teleport spells. Still true though.
 

BlueBlou

Illusionist
I forgot to add, the production of your Golden Abyss is linked to your Main Hall level. If you upgrade your MH, you will get more population for the same level GA.
 

Cheryn

Bard
This game is about balance - if you have something missing or very few - build more (and always fewer buildings in higher level is better than more buildings in lower level), if you have too much, it's not good too, it means you need to sell or teleport. Just hear your city and feel what it wants :)
The best effect is when you can do very good results in a smaller space

I got to love this advice, because I CAN litterally feel my city breathe. But now I don't know what to do about the ones I built and probably should sell. Guess I am gonna sit out awhile and cry. Already put myself in the box as I sold 5 of them. CORK SCREW! Me that is.
 

kimkimkim

Summoner
Well I just took a peek and from an outsider's point of view....I would cut your manufactories in half, same for your armories....doing that would help you gain your pop back in which you can then sell a couple more residences.....but this is just me, I play at a minimalist way anyhow
 

Cheryn

Bard
Thanks Kimkimkim, I think you are right about cutting back. I don't see another way around it at this point. I have too many everything and I'm already cut back from what I had. Even though I sometimes think I have this game in my hip pocket, it takes me for a ride! Mostly when I don't take multiple players advices and instead, blindly follow just one. Everyone has their own play style and I need to incorporate that with the advice I get. Another problem I deal with: I have this thing about "hearing between the lines." I do it with reading too, my very BAD!! Going to work out of this hole and NEVER put myself here again. Oh and Blue - my archmage reminded me of just that thing about the golden abyss, thanks much. I am in Arendyll world if you still want to take a look. Total mess right now and glad you cannot see my numbers. I will fix it within a week or so, pretty sure. Might fall off the first page of Fellowship scores in my home, but I will claw my way back and continue climbing because I am NOT a quitter, even if I get demoted! Hahaha! Fortunately I realized this mistake before I got up in the bigger chapters. Thanks everyone who advised!
 

kimkimkim

Summoner
I wouldn't worry about your points falling cuz as you further progress in the chapters and as those upgrades continue, those points will start to sky rocket....it will be difficult in the beginning to find the right balance for you but with the help of your fellowship it shouldn't be hard...be patient, you'll get there soon enough :)

P.S. chat me up if you have any questions, I play in Arendyll as well
 

BlueBlou

Illusionist
Yes, I looked. I am inclined to go with less T2, T3 and armouries as kimkimkim said, Upgrading your higher level houses will take some goods, but just let the mill grind along so to speak and upgrade them as and when you can. I remember being stuck at this point for a while. You will get it done. :) Just be patient. Lol, this game tests one’s patience many times.

The other thing I see, and this may well make you weep, is the culture buildings you built from the game menus. Those get obsolete very quickly. Always keep an eye out for event buildings and even in-game buildings that give you better stats and replace the old ones. Also keep in mind those that do not need a road and bunch them all together without roads going past them.
 

Stucon

Illusionist
I will fix it within a week or so, pretty sure. Might fall off the first page of Fellowship scores in my home, but I will claw my way back and continue climbing because I am NOT a quitter, even if I get demoted!
Remember that it is a game. Try to have some fun along the way.
 

Sir Derf

Adept
A useful thing to at least consider, if not prioritize, is to pay attention to semi-pointless math... although I would say this is less semi- than other computations.

Keep a close eye on the per-square averages of your different building statistics.

Culture is always needed, and you are always being presented with newer buildings. While there is something to be said about 1 and 2 square culture buildings that can be tucked into various odd spaces in your layout, don't feel married to keeping around a suite of various Culture buildings. Sell and replace often to keep your Culture as efficient as possible. Also, since you always need roads, make sure your roads work for you, by upgrading them with each chapter.

The same principle can be applied to Residences, Workshops, Manufactories, etc. There is no shame in selling overstock as buildings improve and grow, such that fewer buildings take up more space while giving better per-square averages. And as you add and improve some buildings, you may find that you need to add additional basic buildings.

Best of Luck.
 

SkyRider99

Mentor
...and my existing residences would also require a few expansions because - don't they go up to 3x4? (not sure I'm right on that but I'm currently at 3x3.

Your residences, workshops, and manufactories will change size and shape as you advance through the research chapters and apply upgrades. It's challenging and interesting to keep up with the new structures and city planning. A good website that many use for info is called ElvenGems. It's not part of the game, and is not affiliated with InnoGames, but it has a lot of helpful stuff. The URL is here, but the forum moderators may elect to censor the reference: https://elvengems.com/city-balance-buildings/

As Stucon says, have fun. Any mistakes you make along the way can usually be repaired later :cool:
 

Gargon667

Mentor
I forgot to add, the production of your Golden Abyss is linked to your Main Hall level. If you upgrade your MH, you will get more population for the same level GA.

Nope lol. The pop is a proportion of your working pop and has nothing to do with MH level (other than the MH needing more pop with every upgrade), same for Mountain Halls and GA. However the GA gold production is linked to the MH level (I think). All supply production AWs are linked to MH level as well for example.
 

Cheryn

Bard
Culture is always needed, and you are always being presented with newer buildings. While there is something to be said about 1 and 2 square culture buildings that can be tucked into various odd spaces in your layout, don't feel married to keeping around a suite of various Culture buildings. Sell and replace often to keep your Culture as efficient as possible. Also, since you always need roads, make sure your roads work...

I have only encountered one large culture point building since the cyclone, that is Temple of Ages and it's almost a whole expansion by itself. There are others smaller and MUCH more efficient, but cost diamonds!!! Yes I understand about the little ones and use them where I can, but they mostly get in my way because I am always shifting. ALWAYS/ I barely rest at night thinking about this game and getting up from sleep to put an idea in elvenarchitect. I am DREAMING about it all now! SICK! I am officially obsessed!

I need my diamonds I win to upgrade magic residences. No other way to do that yet that I've found. I put the smaller culture buildings (crafted or won) in where I can, and they fill a spot (or look good ;) ). I am totally up for advice, but dang. I am the stupid girl who accidentally deleted her magic workshop, the same one who can't figure out how to use those 4 stupid, now open squares for moving roads. OMG! Someone just kill me now, please.
 
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Cheryn

Bard
Your residences, workshops, and manufactories will change size and shape as you advance through the research chapters and apply upgrades. It's challenging and interesting to keep up with the new structures and city planning. A good website that many use for info is called ElvenGems.

You are speaking of the Elven bible. Always open here. ;)
 

Cheryn

Bard
Yes, I looked. I am inclined to go with less T2, T3 and armouries as kimkimkim said, Upgrading your higher level houses will take some goods, but just let the mill grind along so to speak and upgrade them as and when you can. I remember being stuck at this point for a while. You will get it done. :) Just be patient. Lol, this game tests one’s patience many times.

The other thing I see, and this may well make you weep, is the culture buildings you built from the game menus. Those get obsolete very quickly. Always keep an eye out for event buildings...


Yes, Thank you Blue, She did give good advice and I am cutting back as I upgrade them. Sadly I am pretty behind on ALL upgrades. I guess I got complacent or content for too long. :::SMH::: I do know also about the culture buildings, but as I said somewhere before, there are NO good ones to place that are unlocked for me, except diamond purchased ones and I need my diamonds right now to upgrade magic residences. The only free one is Temple of Ages and takes almost an entire expansion for a single one. I'm sitting still for a long time, honey. At least I know where to put my KPs.
 
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