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Squad Sizes in Tournaments & Provinces

Katwijk

Guest
For once - as an exception to the rule! - I have started this thread containing posts that were off-topic in this thread 'Fairies Questions' - the OP there asked for a mod to clean the topic, since it became more and more a discussion on squad sizes in tournaments and provinces.

The discussion that started there, contained so many interesting posts however that I couldn't bring myself to delete them for being off-topic... so for once I decided to put these together in this new thread.

I hope you all agree on this and will find this an interesting read.
On acquiring sectors and doing tournaments.
  1. Scouting costs are a function of Ring distance + the number of sectors you have acquired and those costs are reduced by 25% each time you acquire another Advanced Scouting technology.
  2. Your provincial opponents are determined by distance and relic type, and there's a random number seed in each of your sectors that will give you the same 8 encounter combinations no matter how long you avoid that sector. As a practical matter, you will not be able to fight where you've scouted unless you've unlocked all of the available Squad Size technologies.
  3. Your Tournament opponent are determined primarily by your Squad Size technology, but the more distant opponents are still tougher. Somebody who is in chapter III will have weaker tournament opponents than somebody in chapter VIII, even though they're doing the "same" tournament.
Edit: Zanyah - 2016-08-24 - I added the quote to make clear why the posts were moved.
 
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oldskoolrx7

Guest
You're confusing acquiring sectors and doing tournaments.
  1. Your Tournament opponent are determined primarily by your Squad Size technology, but the more distant opponents are still tougher. Somebody who is in chapter III will have weaker tournament opponents than somebody in chapter VIII, even though they're doing the "same" tournament.
So since I have not researched as many squad size upgrades as possible, my battles are easier OR they are the same difficulty, just with less troops?
 

Katwijk

Guest
So since I have not researched as many squad size upgrades as possible, my battles are easier OR they are the same difficulty, just with less troops?
  • Your Provincial opponents will be the same, but you'll have a smaller than expected squad size, so the battles will be harder.
  • Your Tournament opponents will be the same, but they'll also have smaller squads, about 10% smaller than your Squads, so the Tournament battles will be at the "right" level of difficulty.
 

CrazyWizard

Scholar
No you seem to be confused since your bringing in non relevant information to the topic.

Btw. Last time I checked elvenar we aquire provinces not sectors thats FoE stuff. (talking about being confused)

Scouting costs have no relevance to the topic starters questions nor does provincial combat. they both are in no way related to tournaments.
But Innogames DID state that the amount of catering costs is based on the amount of unlocked provincies you have one the world map as a measurement tool of your power of goods production. and my best guess is thats the turning points here are the exact points you need to unlock the chests at each chapter.

And then you arrive at point 3 which to me has no substance.

the picture I posted is from a noob account with 48 squad size with acrobat II and Archer I as the only combattants you can oppose these opponents with. as you can see at the cater costs this is clearly province 1 as well.
Thou I do note that they have tuned down the power of the opponents quite a bit in early provincies since I made this pic (its from a bug report on beta) I rarily find these powerfull opponents on early provincies at early rounds, but it's still undoable for a newbie who just unlocked tournaments to fight themselves trough the hordes.

I have ended at my main account every tournament on page one except for 1 tournament which I finished 9th.
I have 4 accounts(ranging from noob to advanced) and have never experienced on any of the effect of squad size on your opponents that your claiming at point 3. nor did I ever see a statement from InnoGames that it does work this way. as far as i know it's a player statement (yours?)
 

Katwijk

Guest
have never experienced on any of the effect of squad size on your opponents that your claiming at point 3
  • Take a look at your Squad Size when you fight in a regular provincial sector. It will match your researched Squad Size.
  • Now take a look at your Squad Size when you fight in a nearby tournament sector. It will be MUCH lower, but as you get out to your more distant tournaments, it will be capped by your researched Squad Size.
  • You ARE allowed to run your own experiments, just like I do.
 

Mykan

Sorcerer
I always thought squad sizes in tournaments were fixed at certain distances as are the opponents sizes. Regardless of the size you still can be facing superior troop types in the tournament.
 

Katwijk

Guest
NOTHING in your opponents IS determined by YOUR squad size research
  • Do an adjacent Tournament with one of your ADVANCED cities
  • Do an adjacent Tournament with one of your ENTRY LEVEL cities
Your Squad Size and that of your Opponent will be MUCH smaller in the entry level city.

Go try it. For Tournaments, both the TYPE of troops and the Size of Squads is DIFFERENT for Advanced Cities and Beginning Cities.
 

shadowblack

Necromancer
Define "entry level city".

My Human city in Chapter V and my Elven city in Chapter VII were facing the exact same enemy squad sizes. Both cities were also seeing Blessed Paladins and Granite Golems. Nothing changed when my Human city reached Chapter VI or when my Elven city reached Chapter VIII.
 

Arjavh

Guest
Not sure if that experiment would work or not. If the tournaments work like the regular provinces, once you start an encounter ( your step #2 ) your opponents are fixed and will not likely change regardless of future upgrades you make in your city. So if you look again ( your step #4 ) and see no changes you probably have not proven anything.

On the other hand, if they do increase in difficulty, you might be able to say the difficulty increased with squad size.
 

Mykan

Sorcerer
There is a degree of fixed squad size in tournaments. you start with a larger force and as you move through the star levels this becomes even and then you are at a disadvantage. From my experience this always occurs the same at the same star levels, I have not recorded the numbers. Whether the size of those starting numbers varies by town is not something I have specifically noted which is what katwijk is saying he has tested and suggesting others test. Once the next tournament begins it is rather easy to confirm.
 

Thedrop

Dreamer
Thank you for the picture, CrazyWizard. That actually raises one more question - Has anyone encountered sorceress with promotion level 2 or the human`s fairy unit upgrades equivalent(s) in tournaments only?
 

Tikococo

Sorcerer
I've just checked on the latest tournament re sorceresses.
My Sorceresses are Bud Sorceresses , so the equivalent of level 3, I get them in the tournaments to fight with, all my opponents are level 2 at the highest so far.
 

CrazyWizard

Scholar
  • Do an adjacent Tournament with one of your ADVANCED cities
  • Do an adjacent Tournament with one of your ENTRY LEVEL cities
Your Squad Size and that of your Opponent will be MUCH smaller in the entry level city.

Go try it. For Tournaments, both the TYPE of troops and the Size of Squads is DIFFERENT for Advanced Cities and Beginning Cities.
Battle1.png
Battle3.png
Battle4.png
Battle5.png
Battle6.png
Battle7.png
Battle8.png

Final nail to the coffin

now please stop spreading incorrect information please.

Edit: Zanyah 2016-08-23 - replaced inappropriate text.
 
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Mykan

Sorcerer
Well I am now quite confident squad size has no impact on tournament sizes. Since we have a new tournament I checked the size of mine and the enemies squads in the first province for different towns. For towns in eras 3, 5, 6 and 7 my squad size was 48 and the opponent 43. While I did not add up my research I know its impossible to be in those eras and have identical techs for squad sizes in all towns.

My data on era 8 was inconclusive as I am unsure if I recorded it correctly. The second tournament size for an era 8 town for me is also 48 and 43 as above which would suggest it is also the same for the first tournament province too.

Can anyone else confirm similar numbers? Would be interesting to confirm if there are variations and what might be the factor for them.

@CrazyWizard what era are those 2 towns? This is consistent with my information too.
 

tonton-des-bois

Illusionist
Just for you, Mykan, I confim above values : undepending of my 300 squad size in standard provinces fights, I always start all tournaments with a very low tournament squad size (squad size 48 for me against squad size 43 for opponents) and the 2 squad sizes are growing gradually with each new tournament province, with always a light advantage for me compared to opponents...
I'm now at 13th tournament province and I have squad size 168 against squad size 151 for opponents
(I'm at era VIII with squad size upgrade 24 completed)
 
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Mykan

Sorcerer
Thanks Tonton that has been my previous experience also. Then as the star levels increase that advantage becomes equal and then a disadvantage for the highest star levels.
 

Zanyah

Ex-Team Member
For once - as an exception to the rule! - I have started this thread containing posts that were off-topic in this thread 'Fairies Questions' - the OP there asked for a mod to clean the topic, since it became more and more a discussion on squad sizes in tournaments and provinces.

The discussion that started there, contained so many interesting posts however that I couldn't bring myself to delete them for being off-topic... so for once I decided to put these together in this new thread.

I hope you all agree on this and will find this an interesting read.

Also I kindly request that posters stay on topic :D or start a new one whenever needed.
 

shadowblack

Necromancer
One thing I'd like to mention: Tournament squad size is determined by distance from your town to the province. It is possible for the second tournament province to be closer to your town than the first, in which case tournament squad size in the second province will be smaller than tournament squad size in the first province. I've seen that twice in Marble tournaments and actually asked about it some time ago (see this thread) but got no answer.