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Spire of Eternity

valle

Soothsayer
I don't find the fights that bad. I've got all squad size upgrades done and I think that might be the explanation. I also find the rewards pretty good for the effort. Or is almost everybody here that lousy fighters? Or just whiners? You seem to do something wrong.
 

Pauly7

Magus
Or is almost everybody here that lousy fighters? Or just whiners? You seem to do something wrong.
A lot of people commenting here have a lot of experience fighting.

The fights are winnable, of course they are, but the point is that the troop losses do not justify a handful of small time reducing instants, etc. If it works for you then good luck to you, but if you have not looked closely at what you are using up then you should do so. The only small carrot of temptation is the new set buildings, but at 5% or 10% chances you have to be really lucky before that becomes viable.
 

m4rt1n

Immortal
A lot of people commenting here have a lot of experience fighting.

The fights are winnable, of course they are, but the point is that the troop losses do not justify a handful of small time reducing instants, etc. If it works for you then good luck to you, but if you have not looked closely at what you are using up then you should do so. The only small carrot of temptation is the new set buildings, but at 5% or 10% chances you have to be really lucky before that becomes viable.

Agreed +1, yes the fights are winnable, and I personally can manually fight everything thrown at me by the spire, BUT what I cannot do is replace the HUGE troop losses due to the INSANE squad sizes selected for the spire.

Section 2 is 3x my normal squad size and section 3 approaches 5-6 times my squad size. Like I said earlier, that is equivalent to doing province 100-120 in a tourney which is CRAZY.

Losing 1 section of troops in such a fight for example 5 mages required is not a celebration, like I only lost 1 mage squad, it is 5 mage squads lost, because the fight will require 25 squads to start.

I fight the tourney weekly and can fight with minimum losses any manual fight given in the tourney or provinces. It's the tower starting squad sizes that are the problem, any small injury to my troops is multiplied into HUGE losses.
 

valle

Soothsayer
But have you unlocked all squad size upgrades? If not you will get much tougher fights and of course much higher losses. I think this is a major factor for many that complains about very high losses.

Sure I get high losses sometimes, but not that high that I feel it's not worth it. I always autofight and in most cases (even multifights) you can do well with 5 of same kind of units. In some multifights I'll have to negotiate as the different waves are too different to suit any attacking army. I also got bonus from fie phoenix.
 

DeletedUser4149

Guest
But have you unlocked all squad size upgrades? If not you will get much tougher fights and of course much higher losses. I think this is a major factor for many that complains about very high losses.
does anyone know for sure how squad sizes effect the spire?
 

Lelanya

Mentor
I don't find the fights that bad. I've got all squad size upgrades done and I think that might be the explanation. I also find the rewards pretty good for the effort. Or is almost everybody here that lousy fighters? Or just whiners? You seem to do something wrong.
Lol Valle, agreed. But the real key is to be prepared to go manual, and be flexible, but I gather everyone must want an easy autofight. I Beta tested an early version, and may try it again this week
 

OldHag

Scholar
How many tries do you get at each battle and what happens if you lose a battle on the way through the spire?

Can you retreat and try again if you're not liking the look of how things are going?
 

OldHag

Scholar
and the answer is no, so tread carefully........got 2 mystery chests so far....woohoo. :)

oops, you can surrender, but I don't know if you would be able to attempt that battle again.
 
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Julian

Sorcerer
I'm sure it's the same as the tournaments. You can surrender and try again, but you would have made losses.
 

Timneh

Artisan
This thread is now 1 1/2 weeks old and 129 posts but not 1 of them is a response from a member of the Elvenar team. Typical of this forum really. At least on beta the CM responds to the feedback left by players.
 

DeletedUser9227

Guest
Can you retreat and try again if you're not liking the look of how things are going?

I did surrender once but lost all the troops anyway. So not quite sure what is the point of surrender. :rolleyes:

But yes, you can try again.
 

DeletedUser8632

Guest
But have you unlocked all squad size upgrades? If not you will get much tougher fights and of course much higher losses. I think this is a major factor for many that complains about very high losses.

Sure I get high losses sometimes, but not that high that I feel it's not worth it. I always autofight and in most cases (even multifights) you can do well with 5 of same kind of units. In some multifights I'll have to negotiate as the different waves are too different to suit any attacking army. I also got bonus from fie phoenix.

How well are you doing in tournaments?
 

DeletedUser8632

Guest
Lol Valle, agreed. But the real key is to be prepared to go manual, and be flexible, but I gather everyone must want an easy autofight. I Beta tested an early version, and may try it again this week

I like this game. And I utterly despise the combat system. Its broken beyond belief, ridiculously imbalanced and overall a major PITA.

You can do extremely well with manual combat. You can abuse the laughably bad AI that runs after the same targets all the time, do a quick "check & surrender" and whatnot. Some provinces/tournaments can be done virtually lossless, some are virtually impossible. The AI is so broken, that under certain circumstances the auto-fight gives you better results than manually possible. Until the very endgame the majority of troops are useless. All in all the combat is an unmitigated mess. If I had to write a dictionary, my entry for "Opposite of Fun" would be "Elvenar Combat"

And - OMG - is manual combat tedious. I don't know how much time other people can spare for the game but spending HOURS in manual combat is something I consider torture. Every time I start I want to quit the game. Completely.

So, yes. I was promised a city building game. And I rather have a vasectomy than spend one minute longer than necessary with a combat system that is about as well-thought out as a Trump speech.
 

Pauly7

Magus
This thread is now 1 1/2 weeks old and 129 posts but not 1 of them is a response from a member of the Elvenar team. Typical of this forum really. At least on beta the CM responds to the feedback left by players.
This still bugs me too, even though I'm no longer surprised. This thread is created because they have asked us for our feedback, but after all this time there have been no responses from them which would seem a matter of courtesy when they requested the observations from us. Not only that, but in the meantime they have re-started the Spire for a second round with no alterations to it, even though this is 7 pages of 95% negativity about the reward to resource ratio.

Why ask for feedback?
 

Timneh

Artisan
Information from beta says that there has been a 20% reduction in squad sizes for both sides (as i have already said) and in the last update notes it said convincing costs would be reduced by between 20% and 50%. I don't know if these changes are already applied to the live server version or not. Maybe one of the CMs could answer that for us and actually make a contribution to this thread.
 

valle

Soothsayer
How well are you doing in tournaments?

On Winyandor I ended #6 last tournament. I've got 74664 ranking points from tournament. I usually end in top 20 (Winyandor) and I go all in in every tournament, so no resting to build up troops to score high in selected tournaments..

I actually think that having all squad size upgrades done is a good thing in tournament if you fight almost all encounters. (I only autofight)
The reason is that you get a lot more troops from all AWs that produce troops.
 

DeletedUser8632

Guest
On Winyandor I ended #6 last tournament. I've got 74664 ranking points from tournament. I usually end in top 20 (Winyandor) and I go all in in every tournament, so no resting to build up troops to score high in selected tournaments..

I actually think that having all squad size upgrades done is a good thing in tournament if you fight almost all encounters. (I only autofight)
The reason is that you get a lot more troops from all AWs that produce troops.

How would that translate for somebody who is for example in Fairies or Orcs. Doable?

Edit: Not the ranking of course, just the general approach
 

C-Nymph

Scholar
Well, apart from the terrible losses and high costs of the Spire (which NEED TO CHANGE!!1!1!Eleven!!), there is another thing rather bothersome with the Spire and that is that you can't hover over your goods-inventory while inside the Spire. So if you want to Convince instead of Fight, you first have to go out of the Spire again, check the inventory to see whether you have enough goods to last at least 3 rounds of convincing and then go back into the Spire to actually do the convincing... We need this functionality accessible from inside the spire please!
2019-09-02_22-55-13.jpg


Right now we can only see how many diamonds we have from inside the Spire. Goes to show what Inno's most important reason was to introduce the Spire in the game in the first place...
2019-09-02_23-01-30.jpg
 

m4rt1n

Immortal
Well, apart from the terrible losses and high costs of the Spire (which NEED TO CHANGE!!1!1!Eleven!!), there is another thing rather bothersome with the Spire and that is that you can't hover over your goods-inventory while inside the Spire. So if you want to Convince instead of Fight, you first have to go out of the Spire again, check the inventory to see whether you have enough goods to last at least 3 rounds of convincing and then go back into the Spire to actually do the convincing... We need this functionality accessible from inside the spire please!
View attachment 3927

Right now we can only see how many diamonds we have from inside the Spire. Goes to show what Inno's most important reason was to introduce the Spire in the game in the first place...
View attachment 3928

You can see how many goods you have from inside the spire by hovering over the goods once you click on the chest.
 
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