Simia Sapiens or Timewarp

[Deleted User - 1759805]

I don't see how that's an issue with Factory productions for Sentient.

If they have resources (pop and space) they can easily scale up sentient manufactoring by building more manus to overcome the fact that 9h production is less efficient. You can't as easily do that with seeds as seeds buildings are much harder to come by.

 

[LazyTony]

Starting 3x3h productions requires much more Seeds than 1x9 so your production and consumption should scale approximately.

Well, as I said, this isn't a problem I am having, but the 2 or 3 chapter 15 payers in my FS who do say 2 x 9 hour and 1 x 3 hour a day (before work, 3 hour in evening, 9 hour overnight) are struggling.

 

[DeletedUser8409]

If they have resources (pop and space) they can easily scale up sentient manufactoring by building more manus to overcome the fact that 9h production is less efficient. You can't as easily do that with seeds as seeds buildings are much harder to come by.

Yes but like-for-like if you have the same number of manufactories logging on every 3h and starting a new 3h collection each time vs logging on every 9h shouldn't be especially different in net seeds.

 

[Deleted User - 1759805]

Yes but like-for-like if you have the same number of manufactories logging on every 3h and starting a new 3h collection each time vs logging on every 9h shouldn't be especially different in net seeds.

Not sure what like-for-like you're looking at. Seeds/sentients production ratio is the same whether you run 3h or 9h productions, so you need the same amount of seeds in order to produce a particular amount of sentients - no matter how you produce them (but 9h productions will require more manufactories, hence my point on pop and space). So if seeds are you binding constraint, you can produce significantly more sentients if you can login every 3 hours because you'll get more seeds due to collection bonus.

 

[DeletedUser8409]

I said with same number of manufactories.

 

[firerock]

After some of the comments in this thread I went ahead and hacked around my city trying to have 2 of each Tier production, otherwise I'd be stuck doing some of the event quests. So then I look to ways of boosting production, and I see TW boosts 124%, thats good I thought, I produce 4480 in a 3 hour run, can boost that to 5,555, that's a worthwhile bit of space.

But no ...

The 124% boost is taken rather oddly from the basic production meaning I get a whole 135 extra production per 3 hour run, whoooooo hooooo!!!
Is that a display bug they haven't corrected yet?

If I collect 3 times a day when I'm working I wont even get 500 extra of that good a day! Thats going to help so much when trying to achieve the tech requirements.

Tech requirements of 275K of a T3 sentient is a bit excessive, holy cow knows what it will be in the next chapter!

Is the TW even worth it ?

 

[Deleted User - 1759805]

The 124% boost is taken rather oddly from the basic production meaning I get a whole 135 extra production per 3 hour run, whoooooo hooooo!!!
Is that a display bug they haven't corrected yet?

It's quite common in Elvenar; Mountain Halls AW boost work exactly the same way. Whether or not the boost is worth it is up to you to decide; remember, that everything boosted won't require inputs (like seeds) to produce. More often than not the limiting factor in boosting sentient production is your seeds production.

Also, TW shortens your tournament cooldown time, which may come quite handy.

 

[Killiak]

Also, TW shortens your tournament cooldown time, which may come quite handy.

Indeed, the benefits are many.
For one, you get more benefit out of the Fire Phoenix since you can (eventually) fit more rounds of fighting within those 24 hours.
Furthermore, having less cooldown will very likely interact more nicely with either a busy social life or a workschedule.
Personally I find the fact that I can run tournament rounds more often during events to be quite useful.

 

[Deleted User - 1759805]

Personally I find the fact that I can run tournament rounds more often during events to be quite useful.

Indeed, and it stacks well with fed Polar Bear - great when you need it.

 

[DeletedUser8409]

After some of the comments in this thread I went ahead and hacked around my city trying to have 2 of each Tier production, otherwise I'd be stuck doing some of the event quests. So then I look to ways of boosting production, and I see TW boosts 124%, thats good I thought, I produce 4480 in a 3 hour run, can boost that to 5,555, that's a worthwhile bit of space.

But no ...

The 124% boost is taken rather oddly from the basic production meaning I get a whole 135 extra production per 3 hour run, whoooooo hooooo!!!
Is that a display bug they haven't corrected yet?

If I collect 3 times a day when I'm working I wont even get 500 extra of that good a day! Thats going to help so much when trying to achieve the tech requirements.

Tech requirements of 275K of a T3 sentient is a bit excessive, holy cow knows what it will be in the next chapter!

Is the TW even worth it ?

It is deliberate. I did say it in the first reply to this thread. I don't have it myself but if you always cast MM spells on your Sentient manufactories then Elvenar Trade Centre may help more.

As for 275k per tech it's only 2+ T6 I find you need. 2+ T4 or T5 is probably overkill as past an early point in the chapter it is only T6 you need to unlock techs (T4 and T5 needed for guest race buildings but in smaller amounts)

 

[firerock]

It's quite common in Elvenar; Mountain Halls AW boost work exactly the same way. Whether or not the boost is worth it is up to you to decide; remember, that everything boosted won't require inputs (like seeds) to produce. More often than not the limiting factor in boosting sentient production is your seeds production.

Also, TW shortens your tournament cooldown time, which may come quite handy.

Yes I should have realised this was the case as i didn't build a MH for that reason.
Tournament cooldown I dont need, as I use the bear and pheonix in tournies.

Seeds production ATM is ok for me.

For me the increase in production in the TW is not worth the space, silly me for not realising this before building it!

 

[firerock]

It is deliberate. I did say it in the first reply to this thread. I don't have it myself but if you always cast MM spells on your Sentient manufactories then Elvenar Trade Centre may help more.

As for 275k per tech it's only 2+ T6 I find you need. 2+ T4 or T5 is probably overkill as past an early point in the chapter it is only T6 you need to unlock techs (T4 and T5 needed for guest race buildings but in smaller amounts)

Yes i wasn't directing this at you RB

I do use the MM spells as well, far more useful than the TW.
I have built the manus but they are usually only in production if I need the resource, especially for upgrading.

I was thinking about what you said about only T6, I dont tend to do it, but what is the x-tier trades like for T6-T5 and T6-T4, When I check there are always loads on the market pointing to them not being taken. Whereas there are usually very few same tier trades, as the get snapped up quickly. I find this when i put same tier trades on the market get taken within the hour, quite often within 10 mins, But 3* x-tier trades I have put up (not silly qtys either), seem to linger much longer, hinting at players more unwilling to take them.

 

[firerock]

Also looking at the T6 production only, Sapiens takes up 3x6 (18 ) spaces, give a maxed out manu a boost of 135 for a 3 hour run and 245 for a 9 hour run.
For those that work the general production is 2 9hr and 1 3 hour in a day, thats 245, 245, 135 boosted from TW a day, thats 625 boosted per day per manu.

If you have a single Moonstone Gate (4x1) that produces 420 of T6 (21 hour production), if you have 2 of them each are doubled and they produce 840. so 2 Gates (8 spaces) produce 1680 T6 per day (21 hours), whereas using a TW (18 spaces) 2 lvl 27 T6 manus get an additional 1250 per day (21 hours).
If you took up a similar amount of space with Gates (4 of them 16 spaces), then you produce 3460 per day T6

Tell me I have miscalculated please, as this seems a terrible disparity.

 

[DeletedUser3571]

well you can change the sapiens to timewarp to make it less confusing
Firstly not sure if this should be taken into account, But you are only talking about 16.67% of the bonus of the timewarp (the sentient production boost being 50% and your talking about only a third of that bonus)
Secondly 2 moonstone gates next to each other do not receive a boost (it has to be a different building next to them to get a boost, so you would need at least 1 extra space for mana plant) you also dont seem to understand how it works as in constructs mine give me 400 and then give me an extra 800 if they are connected to a different building so i would get 1200 from each. (so im presuming yours would actually give 1260 each)
Third i'm presuming you are talking about a lv1 timewarp, if so you have not mentioned that the timewarp can be upgraded to give a bigger boost. most people also say that you should get AW's to lv6 at least to get a worthwhile bonus.

 

[firerock]

well you can change the sapiens to timewarp to make it less confusing
Firstly not sure if this should be taken into account, But you are only talking about 16.67% of the bonus of the timewarp (the sentient production boost being 50% and your talking about only a third of that bonus)
Secondly 2 moonstone gates next to each other do not receive a boost (it has to be a different building next to them to get a boost, so you would need at least 1 extra space for mana plant) you also dont seem to understand how it works as in constructs mine give me 400 and then give me an extra 800 if they are connected to a different building so i would get 1200 from each. (so im presuming yours would actually give 1260 each)
Third i'm presuming you are talking about a lv1 timewarp, if so you have not mentioned that the timewarp can be upgraded to give a bigger boost. most people also say that you should get AW's to lv6 at least to get a worthwhile bonus.

Sorry I was't going to laboriously detail every point (moonstone spacing) i assumed everyone knew that.

I ran the maths and its still better to have multiple moonstone gates than a level 6 timewart

 

[DeletedUser3571]

True if you only care about T6 production.

 

[DeletedUser8409]

Sorry I was't going to laboriously detail every point (moonstone spacing) i assumed everyone knew that.

I ran the maths and its still better to have multiple moonstone gates than a level 6 timewart

I don't agree with your Maths. Timewarp is scalable (it can be multiplicative with other factors) in a way that Gates can't. You've not accounted for the potential use of MM spells, multiple manufactories, multiple goods and other AWs it can multiply with - multiplicative rather than additive bonuses are key to getting high numbers in this game.

FYI using my own personal numbers my Timewarp is level 12, with 4x level 25 T6 manufactories.

My Timewarp is giving a base boost of +373 T6 per 3h production. Across 4 manufactories that is a base boost of +1492 per set of 3h productions. However when I require Sentient goods I permanently run MM spells on my Sentient manufactories. MM spell is multiplicative with your Timewarp so that is a further 50% so +2238 per 3h production. From memory 9h is 1.6x 3h so lets say +3581 per 9h production. I tend to run 3-4x 3h and 1x9h so that's +10,295 to 12,533 per day for me but going like for like with your 2x9 and 1x3 it is still +9400.

Gates of course give 1260 for 4 tiles or 5,670 for 18 so nowhere close to my Timewarp. And of course Gates give no further advantage whereas the goods Timewarp gives are its secondary bonus, the primary bonus is the reduction in my Tournament cooldown from 16h to 10h.

Finally if you're bothered by good production (I'm not) you can also build and upgrade the Elvenar Trade Centre. I don't have this but since it boosts your MM spell it multiplies with your Timewarp goods bonus. Theoretically with a level 30 ETC (so MM spell gives +100%) and a level 30 Timewarp (so a Timewarp gives +160% to base production) you would be gaining +320% goods production. With a level 27 manufactory that would be +1,692 per manufactory per 3h. For 4 Level 27s that would theoretically be +6,768 per 3h.

PS I have 9 Gates so its not like I'm against Gates but Timewarp at scale is better than Gates.

 

[Paladestar]

It depends on your focus really. For the long-term Simia is better for Sentient goods production than the Timewarp is.

The longer you produce without spending Simia becomes far more important as decay becomes a far greater problem than production.

This chart shows a comparison for Timewarp only against Simia only, assuming 50K production per day, no spending:

Starting from zero sentient goods, if you can reach your required goods goal in less than 6 days, Timewarp comes out marginally ahead. At 6+ days, decay really starts to hammer you!

Also, if you're at the end game and know you'll spend time waiting for the next chapter to be released, your sentient goods cap is essentially 10 times your daily production without Simia. A level 5 Simia gets you 20 times daily production as your cap, level 13 gets you 30 times, 21 gets you 40 times, 30 gets you 50 times. Simia can let you be way more stocked up for when the new chapter arrives.

Note, none of this takes into account the fact that Simia takes up more space and needs more KP and goods per level. The real answer is: why not have both!