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Simia Sapiens or Timewarp

randblade

Scholar
It depends how much you hold in stock but probably Simia. Remember that the Timewarp bonus is additive with the relic bonus not multiplicative so assuming you have a maximum relic bonus the 'real' Timewarp bonus is 1/8th of the percentage increase it says.

Getting both to 1 then both to 6 will help though. Remember that it costs Sentient to upgrade at the rune rings so that may only really be effective when you have Sentient that would otherwise go to waste rather than when you need it. My Simia has been stuck on 15 for over a month now as all my Sentient is going to Research. Upgrading to 16 would reduce decay for me but at a cost of 292k T6 Sentient to do the upgrade that's expensive while also trying to Research.
 

MinMax Gamer

Enchanter
Which is better for sentient goods ? Is it more effective to increase production or reduce decay ?
Indeed, it depends on how much do you carry your sentients. The most efficient way to avoid decay is to not carry balances overnight - if you have no sentients, you're not losing anything to decay. So perfect pattern would be to produce all you need in one day, dump it in the evening, have nothing overnight. This is an unlikely scenario, but you can get close - i.e. I am able to dump sentients in the Elvenar chapter pretty much every other day, so by and large only carry 1 day worth of production overnight - rarely 2 days. This setup requires high production to begin with, and Timewarp is the most useful here as I just don't have much subject to decay.

On the other end of the spectrum is slow base production, where you accumulate sentients for a week before dumping. This means that your sentient balances are subject to decay for multiple days, and Simia would help a lot more.
 

CrazyWizard

Soothsayer
Depends, if you need it now, timewarp,
but if you are between new chapters (aka done with the current tech tree) sapiens.

sapiens allows you to build up a large stock of sentient goods overtime because the amount of decay is low(er)
off course best would be both :p
 

FairyNike

Spellcaster
Have both. If my calculations are right, having only Timewrap will allow you to maintain slightly more sentient goods than having only simia sapiens at the same level.
 

jixel

Spellcaster
Indeed, it depends on how much do you carry your sentients. The most efficient way to avoid decay is to not carry balances overnight - if you have no sentients, you're not losing anything to decay. So perfect pattern would be to produce all you need in one day, dump it in the evening, have nothing overnight. This is an unlikely scenario, but you can get close - i.e. I am able to dump sentients in the Elvenar chapter pretty much every other day, so by and large only carry 1 day worth of production overnight - rarely 2 days. This setup requires high production to begin with, and Timewarp is the most useful here as I just don't have much subject to decay.

On the other end of the spectrum is slow base production, where you accumulate sentients for a week before dumping. This means that your sentient balances are subject to decay for multiple days, and Simia would help a lot more.
... are you up to the researches that require 250k+ of some sentient good ? And you're really making that much in one or two days ?
... are we even playing the same game ? How is that possible ?
 

randblade

Scholar
... are you up to the researches that require 250k+ of some sentient good ? And you're really making that much in one or two days ?
... are we even playing the same game ? How is that possible ?
I am and yes. When the chapter was released I had no manufactories, I had sold them and was relying on Pyramid for Spire. Seeing the amount of goods required I knew that I'd need a few so started building some new ones from scratch. Now I have 4 T6 manufactories. Two level 24 and two level 25. My Timewarp is level 6.

With MM spell I get 6234 per 3h from each of my level 25s and 5724 per 3h from each of my level 24s. That is 23,916 per 3h. Based on 4x3h and 1x9h per day that is approximately 135,365 per day or 270k per 2 days. That's over 250k even after 1 days decay.

Once I'm done with this chapter I'll raise these manufactories to 27 then teleport into my inventory before next chapter comes out. I've not got them at 27 yet because the opportunity cost of leaving them idle for a day while they upgrade and the cost of upgrading them means its just not worth it while I need the goods.
 

MinMax Gamer

Enchanter
... are you up to the researches that require 250k+ of some sentient good ? And you're really making that much in one or two days ?
... are we even playing the same game ? How is that possible ?
I am almost done with the Elvenar chapter (4 more techs left), so yes, for quite a while now each research required 200K-350K+ of T6. But I overproduce T6, so even had to buy KPs a couple of times to rush research before the decay time.

I was doing zero-techlock challenge since chapter 1, so no reason to stop now ;)
 

firerock

Enchanter
I am and yes. When the chapter was released I had no manufactories, I had sold them and was relying on Pyramid for Spire. Seeing the amount of goods required I knew that I'd need a few so started building some new ones from scratch. Now I have 4 T6 manufactories. Two level 24 and two level 25. My Timewarp is level 6.

With MM spell I get 6234 per 3h from each of my level 25s and 5724 per 3h from each of my level 24s. That is 23,916 per 3h. Based on 4x3h and 1x9h per day that is approximately 135,365 per day or 270k per 2 days. That's over 250k even after 1 days decay.

Once I'm done with this chapter I'll raise these manufactories to 27 then teleport into my inventory before next chapter comes out. I've not got them at 27 yet because the opportunity cost of leaving them idle for a day while they upgrade and the cost of upgrading them means its just not worth it while I need the goods.
Thats very impressive RandBlade.

With that in mind can I ask if your 222 (sentient decay) is at level 16 because of the troop production bonus rather than the sentient decay, Whereas your 111 is only level 6?

I'm asking as I'm having a rethink about how I reset up my city, and what you say has given me food for thought.
thanks.
 

randblade

Scholar
Thats very impressive RandBlade.

With that in mind can I ask if your 222 (sentient decay) is at level 16 because of the troop production bonus rather than the sentient decay, Whereas your 111 is only level 6?

I'm asking as I'm having a rethink about how I reset up my city, and what you say has given me food for thought.
thanks.
Indeed my whole city is prioritised around troops so I built my Simia for its troop effect and my Timewarp for its Tournament time reduction effect. The effects they have on Sentient production/decay is a good incidental bonus but not my primary motivation. If it weren't for the introduction of the Brown Bears I would be trying to take my Simia towards level 30 but due to my collection of brown bears I'm leaving that on the backburner until I boost other Wonders. I appreciate that won't be the same for everyone.
 

Vetrinus

Enchanter
... are you up to the researches that require 250k+ of some sentient good ? And you're really making that much in one or two days ?
... are we even playing the same game ? How is that possible ?
Multiple T6 factories and/or time boosts/diamonds, MMs, decently upgraded ETC/TW/Simia (possibly PoP, haven't experimented with it myself), Storm Phoenix at a high stage (optional but handy, excellent when popping time boosts or diamonds to speed things up along with MMs), and a high enough Seeds availability to support it all.
Clearly not a combination of assets available to the average player, so I wouldn't feel bad if I were you. Or in other words, when I'll get to Chapter XV with one of my alt cities, I'll take my sweet time and resign to being tech-locked for a very long time.
 

randblade

Scholar
Of those you mentioned since I don't generally cater all I'm using is multiple T6 and MM spells. Which I don't see why it can't be available to the average player if they want it.

Once you are through the initial stage of tech T4 and T5 aren't needed.

This is a Strategy game and you can come up with your own strategies to do it. Not every city has to be the same.
 

Vetrinus

Enchanter
Of those you mentioned since I don't generally cater all I'm using is multiple T6 and MM spells. Which I don't see why it can't be available to the average player if they want it.

Once you are through the initial stage of tech T4 and T5 aren't needed.

This is a Strategy game and you can come up with your own strategies to do it. Not every city has to be the same.
Seems very simple to me. The average player, having invested less time and resources in the game, won't have a comparable amount of time boosts / diamonds / AW levels / Seed production (tied to exploration, AW levels, and event buildings). Not to mention that those not yet in Chapter XV, which according to my understanding are the majority and thus represent the average, will reach said chapter without having had the luxury of months spent stockpiling PPs, Sentient Goods, Seeds and whatnot. Not to mention space, and the fact that without enough PPs they'll have to use T4/5 to produce racial goods (which are needed anyway to upgrade residences, armories, the main hall and can't remember what else, along with a copious amount of seeds). I've even read of players having issues with the number of orcs required, so there's that too.
 

randblade

Scholar
I've not used any time boosts or diamonds on this. I never used PPs before the Constructs chapter (which I reached quite late, I was still in Elemental when it was released).

Yes there are compromises to make but so there are in any good Strategy game, that's what makes it a Strategy game. There's absolutely no randomness or casino element to any of this its not like the events, you get seeds at a rate you can influence somewhat but have to make compromises on for what works for you. Not to forget that anyone who reaches Elvenar afterwards will have had longer to prepare for it as they can plan in advance. Players currently in Constructs can think they want an extra T6 and make space for it now in a way that those who played Constructs before them probably didn't. Just as people finishing Halflings now can start preparing a Sentient manufactory in the way those beforehand wouldn't have. Plus you can Teleport a T3 now which you couldn't previously.

My advice to anyone currently in Constructs is get ready to have multiple T6.
 

Vetrinus

Enchanter
I've not used any time boosts or diamonds on this. I never used PPs before the Constructs chapter (which I reached quite late, I was still in Elemental when it was released).

Yes there are compromises to make but so there are in any good Strategy game, that's what makes it a Strategy game. There's absolutely no randomness or casino element to any of this its not like the events, you get seeds at a rate you can influence somewhat but have to make compromises on for what works for you. Not to forget that anyone who reaches Elvenar afterwards will have had longer to prepare for it as they can plan in advance. Players currently in Constructs can think they want an extra T6 and make space for it now in a way that those who played Constructs before them probably didn't. Just as people finishing Halflings now can start preparing a Sentient manufactory in the way those beforehand wouldn't have. Plus you can Teleport a T3 now which you couldn't previously.

My advice to anyone currently in Constructs is get ready to have multiple T6.
Diamonds I can believe because I didn't spend any either, but I have a hard time believing you managed to get that amount of bears without using time boosts and playing the last event a lot - that's not to say you might've ended up with more time worth of boosts than before the event, I know very well that's actually the case, but still. That being said, you missed my points entirely - which was, the average player doesn't even browse the forum, let alone have multiple bears or a city half as efficient as yours. As to players approaching Chapter XV being at an advantage, well, that's simply not the case. When the Elvenar were announced, those of us who had ended Costructs already had all the time to build more manufactories (hell, I even had time to build and teleport more workshops, given the direction the events were headed), all the while stockpiling sentient goods, orcs, seeds and doing quite a bit of provinces in order to get those juicy bears.
Those who will go through chapters now may know what will be waiting for them and prepare accordingly, but they won't reach the chapter with the same amount of seeds/mana/sentient goods/PPs/completed provinces/AW levels (unless opting to deliberately stay behind and take pauses in advancement, but no TW or Simia levels right at the start of Chapter XV in any case), that's for sure. They also won't have the same amount of event goodies. Remember, I'm talking about the average player, not people with multiple evolving buildings (and all the side prizes who came along with them).
 

MinMax Gamer

Enchanter
As to players approaching Chapter XV being at an advantage, well, that's simply not the case. When the Elvenar were announced, those of us who had ended Costructs already had all the time to build more manufactories (hell, I even had time to build and teleport more workshops, given the direction the events were headed), all the while stockpiling sentient goods, orcs, seeds and doing quite a bit of provinces in order to get those juicy bears.
Those who will go through chapters now may know what will be waiting for them and prepare accordingly, but they won't reach the chapter with the same amount of seeds/mana/sentient goods/PPs/completed provinces/AW levels (unless opting to deliberately stay behind and take pauses in advancement, but no TW or Simia levels right at the start of Chapter XV in any case), that's for sure.
These are all reasonable points - but! ;) The original question was addressed to me, and I am actually one of the (probably very few) players who started chapter 15 in the worst position possible in terms of prep ability. When they dropped chapter 15 on beta, I was in my last days completing Constructs. So when chapter went live, I literally had only 8 days in-between Constructs finish and getting it on with Elvenar. So I didn't have months to stockpile all kinds of stuff in-between chapters (as most of the current chapter 15 players could), nor did I have advance knowledge of chapter requirements and was able to tune my city build for that effectively ahead of time (as future chapter 15 players will be able to). So future players definitely have information advantage. I wouldn't go as far as to say they have an advantage period - a lot would depend on what's available in the future events.

That's not to say I didn't do any stockpiling - I certainly did, but it was in due course of the game, no pausing (I did all 15 chapters back to back with no breaks except for those 8 days after Constructs). But without knowledge of what's coming some of my build decisions were suboptimal, especially given how different this chapter is to the previous ones. E.g. my significant mana generation capability built out over time turned out to be pretty useless in this chapter. On the other hand, my seeds production - while adequate for previous chapters - was not sufficient at all. My only saving grace was that we had an event going on in these 2-3 weeks between beta launch and going live, and I was able to ramp up my seeds production by about 50% IIRC by going all in on Ponds of Autumn. If I'd knew about chapter requirements ahead of time, I'd play a couple of previous events somewhat differently. Also, Festival Merchant is a thing now, and it will help tremendously for players approaching chapter 15.

Now, I don't claim to be average ;) but in terms of resources available at the chapter start I don't think I was in a particularly advantageous position comparing to the average player. Sure, I do benefit from some of the powerful buildings from previous events (Winter Market, Carnival), even though in this chapter they do not impact things that much. On the other hand, doing chapters back-to-back at a fast pace means that I arrived to chapter 15 with the number of expansions (I have literally bare minimal number of open map provinces for the chapter + just a few premium ones, so only 112 total) and total AW levels (slightly more than 100) that would be on the low end for the average player who will take longer getting there. Especially if such player buys even a few diamonds from time to time.

Bottom line is, I believe it was certainly possible for an average player up to that point in time. How future player will actually fare will depend a lot on how future events will play out.

By the way, I had L5 TW and Simia basically 2 days after completing Constructs ;) At that point in time I knew I will need them, so there went my emergency AWKP stash.
 

randblade

Scholar
Diamonds I can believe because I didn't spend any either, but I have a hard time believing you managed to get that amount of bears without using time boosts and playing the last event a lot - that's not to say you might've ended up with more time worth of boosts than before the event, I know very well that's actually the case, but still. That being said, you missed my points entirely - which was, the average player doesn't even browse the forum, let alone have multiple bears or a city half as efficient as yours. As to players approaching Chapter XV being at an advantage, well, that's simply not the case. When the Elvenar were announced, those of us who had ended Costructs already had all the time to build more manufactories (hell, I even had time to build and teleport more workshops, given the direction the events were headed), all the while stockpiling sentient goods, orcs, seeds and doing quite a bit of provinces in order to get those juicy bears.
Those who will go through chapters now may know what will be waiting for them and prepare accordingly, but they won't reach the chapter with the same amount of seeds/mana/sentient goods/PPs/completed provinces/AW levels (unless opting to deliberately stay behind and take pauses in advancement, but no TW or Simia levels right at the start of Chapter XV in any case), that's for sure. They also won't have the same amount of event goodies. Remember, I'm talking about the average player, not people with multiple evolving buildings (and all the side prizes who came along with them).
I thought we were talking about producing T6?

Yes of course I've used Time Boosters on other stuff like quests or troop training [works very well when Bears are active] - I've not wasted my time instants on producing T6 goods. I've used diamonds on other useful stuff too like buying expansions, Magic Workshops, Magic Residences, builder hut and Magic Academy. Again I wouldn't waste diamonds on T6.

The average player may not have everything but the average player isn't my baseline. As you noted I've set my city up for efficiency which is a key Strategy element for me that has kept me hooked to this Strategy game. If a player wishes to produce multiple T6 manufactories they can do so - they just need to Strategise and figure out priorities on how to do so. The average player is pretty inefficient and I could give tips to optimise many a player as I'm sure could others like MinMax - if a player doesn't wish to be efficient then that's their choice, either consciously or subconsciously.

Another player may have fewer AW levels and thus fewer seeds than I do, but then my seeds are decaying because I'm not using them all. I'm running 4 Sentient manufactories and that's it - I don't see why another player can't run 4 manufactories in the fifth chapter since seeds were released, 6 if they bother to produce T4 or T5 which I don't. Not forgetting that there have been seed producing buildings in every single event for years and seed producing buildings available to craft in the Magic Academy.
 
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