schadenfreude
Enchanter
They have 2 wonders and they just got like 10 free wonders. Nobody is complaining 
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Runeshard Changes
- Thread starter Silmaril
- Start date
C-Nymph
Necromancer
... until they notice they are blocked.They have 2 wonders and they just got like 10 free wonders. Nobody is complaining
schadenfreude
Enchanter
No, they're still not complaining because they just got 10 free upgrades in a matter of a few days! Without their teammate's generosity, they would be 10 levels behind on those wonders still. They ain't gonna be building those wonders that fast since they are small cities without a giant stash of runes. It's like complaining you got locked for 1 day when you're already coming out 3 months ahead if they had to build all those upgrades yourself.
C-Nymph
Necromancer
They'll soon stop being happy when they notice the increase in difficulty in spire and tourney, as Inno also wants balance in that department, so going too fast on your AWs will negatively impact your cities' ability to succeed in spire and tourney. And now with the added bonus of the cap on kp donations, these smaller cities will be done playing in 3...2...1...
Killiak
Artisan
And after they are locked they can then only effectively receive 80kp per day. So a quick boost.... and then a deadlock.
Which technically is what the system was designed for, as an anti-pushing system.
schadenfreude
Enchanter
It's an overblown fear. As long as you're not building every wonder you unlock and upgrading them all, you'll be fine. I had a level 25 Needles by chap 5 bc I was trying to see if a high Needles can overcome the slow troop production in early chapters. Right now I have 160 wonder levels and still pulling over 7000 weekly in tourney. My larger city has 185 wonder levels and pulling 8500. The AM of my other city is a Chap 19 players with 781 wonder levels and averaging 14000. Wonders affect costs the smallest of all the variables. If you know what you're doing, it's fine. Upgrade away.
Killiak
Artisan
And here we find the problem.
A smaller city will have less access to the Wonders that aid them most in Tournament and Spire, yet a Fellowship then boosting them can and will see them suffer in effectiveness, especially if they pick sub-optimal wonders. Not to mention the new system will see them KP locked real fast, so if they pick the wrong wonders, they can't go back and fix it in a short timeframe.
Every scouted province and explored tech increases the issue, as it is not an additive formula but multiplicative.
Nothing makes players quit quicker than frustration over not being able to participate. This is a real issue.
Skallywag
Spellcaster
Alternatively, if the FS was aware at the start of the new unannounced KP balance system, that smaller city might have used the runes they had to do swaps for their upgrades, and avoid getting locked in the first place.
Skallywag
Spellcaster
Same here. We've traditionally added to the game with rewards for helping out the fellowship, birthday celebrations, contests etc. It's added to the culture of the FS.
Jackluyt
Shaman
Some thoughts, from our experience in Beta:
1. Senior players with hundreds of common low level rune shards can help the newcomers to finish their wonders free of charge. There will be a feeding frenzy at first - but the KP costs nothing, and they stay in the fellowship!
2. No need to have special swap threads - your normal Endless Chain threads work just fine. Particularly if they are divisible by 15.
3. There is a 'lock' that kicks in if a city receives a lot more KP than it receives - InnoGames are not going to tell us the precise cut-off level because that would help people who run 'Push Accounts'.
4. You cannot get locked it you give 10 KP to your own wonders - it is only a net import / export imbalance that triggers it. But why use your Rune Shard to get only 10 KP when you can get 15 KP from it by swapping? If you are averse to using Swap Threads, find a Dump Buddy and drop equal numbers of shards on each other's wonders, so there is no import/.export imbalance.
5. If you do get blocked, donating a few KP to another player will unlock you - but InnoGames are not telling how many is required. And they have also asked us not to discuss this number, which is their right to preserve their own intellectual property.
6. The lock goes away after a day or so - but we suspect that if you keep getting blocked, the game might become stricter with its cut-off points - to counter 'Push Accounts'.
7. Get your friends to check if you have wonders ready to upgrade! If everyone is dropping lots of KP on friends, it is easy to miss that someone has finished a wonder for you - and unfortunately there is not way in the present browser version to quickly scan for completed wonders; but friends can see these at a single glance.
8. IMO, this is going to make it far too easy for beginners to get a lot of level 30 wonders. Up till now, having lots of high-level Wonders has required dedication and hard work - or cheating. Now everyone is going to have the early-level Wonders maxed quite quickly - cancelling all the hard work that older players have put in.
I don't like the effect it will have on the game ultimately - though in the short term it will appear to be excellent and welcome. I suspect that with a sudden surge of powerful Wonders appearing in everyone's cities, the designers may be forced to rebalance the game to make the playing field level again - in which case, what would the point have been of making this change?
1. Senior players with hundreds of common low level rune shards can help the newcomers to finish their wonders free of charge. There will be a feeding frenzy at first - but the KP costs nothing, and they stay in the fellowship!
2. No need to have special swap threads - your normal Endless Chain threads work just fine. Particularly if they are divisible by 15.
3. There is a 'lock' that kicks in if a city receives a lot more KP than it receives - InnoGames are not going to tell us the precise cut-off level because that would help people who run 'Push Accounts'.
4. You cannot get locked it you give 10 KP to your own wonders - it is only a net import / export imbalance that triggers it. But why use your Rune Shard to get only 10 KP when you can get 15 KP from it by swapping? If you are averse to using Swap Threads, find a Dump Buddy and drop equal numbers of shards on each other's wonders, so there is no import/.export imbalance.
5. If you do get blocked, donating a few KP to another player will unlock you - but InnoGames are not telling how many is required. And they have also asked us not to discuss this number, which is their right to preserve their own intellectual property.
6. The lock goes away after a day or so - but we suspect that if you keep getting blocked, the game might become stricter with its cut-off points - to counter 'Push Accounts'.
7. Get your friends to check if you have wonders ready to upgrade! If everyone is dropping lots of KP on friends, it is easy to miss that someone has finished a wonder for you - and unfortunately there is not way in the present browser version to quickly scan for completed wonders; but friends can see these at a single glance.
8. IMO, this is going to make it far too easy for beginners to get a lot of level 30 wonders. Up till now, having lots of high-level Wonders has required dedication and hard work - or cheating. Now everyone is going to have the early-level Wonders maxed quite quickly - cancelling all the hard work that older players have put in.
I don't like the effect it will have on the game ultimately - though in the short term it will appear to be excellent and welcome. I suspect that with a sudden surge of powerful Wonders appearing in everyone's cities, the designers may be forced to rebalance the game to make the playing field level again - in which case, what would the point have been of making this change?
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CrazyWizard
Shaman
They will always try to "improve" the game for new players.
When I started we had 1 KP per hour period, later they indroduced tournaments so new players could more easily catch up.
For a long while I had to make every race good myself, untill at some point they introduced Portal profits to have new players being able to catch up.
I see this change as a way for new players to catch up to. the longer you play the easier it gets for new players to catch up with you.
Stucon
Illusionist
Have you read this thread ? Loads of complaining. I am on your side though. lolNobody is complaining
elvie8787
Novice
Hi everyone,
Here is some positive feedback about this new feature. I absolutely LOVE IT!
I've been playing this game for 11 months now, just started Elvenar chapter a week ago. Thanks to this feature I was able to upgrade my Timewarp from level 1 to level 8 in less than 48 hours, which allows me to do 6 rounds of tournament now.
Our super awesome fellowship KP swap threads went ballistic, especially in the first 2-3 days, and still going strong. We had to add 200kp and 300kp swap threads after the ones that we already had were not sufficient enough to handle all the swap going between the players. So far everyone in the fellowship is pretty happy about this feature. Few players have concerns of how this will affect their spire/tourney difficulties and stuff. With smart planning and thinking ahead, I personally see no issues in that regard.
Few weeks ago I was looking at people with level 30+ AW's and thinking I might never have even a single one at that level, but now I know that after like 4-5 months of smashing the tournament I might have my first level 30 AW and that's something that I am looking forward to
Thank you for this awesome new feature and happy gaming everyone!
Here is some positive feedback about this new feature. I absolutely LOVE IT!
I've been playing this game for 11 months now, just started Elvenar chapter a week ago. Thanks to this feature I was able to upgrade my Timewarp from level 1 to level 8 in less than 48 hours, which allows me to do 6 rounds of tournament now.
Our super awesome fellowship KP swap threads went ballistic, especially in the first 2-3 days, and still going strong. We had to add 200kp and 300kp swap threads after the ones that we already had were not sufficient enough to handle all the swap going between the players. So far everyone in the fellowship is pretty happy about this feature. Few players have concerns of how this will affect their spire/tourney difficulties and stuff. With smart planning and thinking ahead, I personally see no issues in that regard.
Few weeks ago I was looking at people with level 30+ AW's and thinking I might never have even a single one at that level, but now I know that after like 4-5 months of smashing the tournament I might have my first level 30 AW and that's something that I am looking forward to
Thank you for this awesome new feature and happy gaming everyone!
rock stream
Scholar
Hi Jackluyt. Its nice to see what the top percent are doing. The rich sure have their problems.
Item #1 - We're lucky we don't have any senior players in our fellowship just like the majority of fellowships so we are missing all the stress of the frenzy.
Item #2 -When you are moving hundred's of runeshards into wonders what has that done to your swap threads? Doesn't the 10 kp thread disappear when some players are moving 150 kp around and getting all the chests?
Item #3, 4, 5, 6 - No worries on locks in our fellowship.
Item #8 - I can't see it having any impact on the majority of new players (Chapter 6 or less) as they don't have whales in their ponds and are in 10 to 20 player fellowships.
I can see the opportunity to create a real have/have not spirit in a fellowship but that is life.
Item #1 - We're lucky we don't have any senior players in our fellowship just like the majority of fellowships so we are missing all the stress of the frenzy.
Item #2 -When you are moving hundred's of runeshards into wonders what has that done to your swap threads? Doesn't the 10 kp thread disappear when some players are moving 150 kp around and getting all the chests?
Item #3, 4, 5, 6 - No worries on locks in our fellowship.
Item #8 - I can't see it having any impact on the majority of new players (Chapter 6 or less) as they don't have whales in their ponds and are in 10 to 20 player fellowships.
I can see the opportunity to create a real have/have not spirit in a fellowship but that is life.
schadenfreude
Enchanter
I don't know about how other FS run their biz, but it's the job of the AM and mages to provide guidance and leadership. If a FS is not helping out new players, wonders are prob the least of their worries. They've prob wasted half their real estate and pop building unboosted factories and wondering why nobody is taking their 0-and 1-star trades since nobody prob explain to them the trading fee either. The little and medium cities in my FS are climbing to the top of Spire just fine. Most of them only have GA and Needles. Some have started their Monastery/Sanctuaries. None of those wonders are going to crush them. GA is going to give them pop to build with and Needles/Monastery can only help them in Spire and tourneys, which in turn, helps the overall FS. Hence, they were offered free KPs by bigger cities that are willing and able. It helps everyone. We like playing as a team. Just like in sports, the stronger players lead by example, but they also help the weaker teammates get better and stronger so the team has a better shot at winning the game overall.
Sorry, for clarity, I'm talking about no one in my FS is complaining. It's not like if a bunch of people gave you free KPs, your wonders magically upgrade themselves. The player still has to be the ones to activate the upgrade process. If they don't want anymore KPs, don't click upgrade! They all chose to keep upgrading and participate in the wonder blitz. They got thousands of free KPs and they chose to upgrade. Why would they then complain about it like they were the victim? Heck, some of their GAs are higher than mine now and I've got years head start on them!
SkyRider99
Mentor
It will happen. At least IMHO. There must be a limit reached eventually. Probably
SkyRider99
Mentor
GA envy
Killiak
Artisan
Exactly.
Only reasoning from your own point of view and/or experience is not going to cover all possibilities, and will fail to recognize potential problems.
Stucon
Illusionist
ditto
Paladestar
Enchanter
Maybe they'll have to stop punishing AW levels in the tournament and spire forumla so hard when more people are affected by how unfair it is.