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Runeshard Changes

Killiak

Artisan
Lets try and keep this on topic guys. It's currently an emotive subject and whilst not everyone will agree, lets still try and keep it polite! :)

Kind Regards

Herodite.

"not agree"

This does not even begin to describe my Burning Fury Of A Thousand Exploding Suns over this change. Unfortunately, I can't express it properly on this forum, since it will just get deleted by mods. Furthermore, I very much doubt it would motivate Inno to change a thing, because user feedback has never ever lead to any kind of meaningful change.
 

C-Nymph

Scholar
Question - If you are a hunter, have hit the limit on received AWKP, and you continue to hunt, spending small amounts while expecting to receive large returns from chests, what happens to those chest rewards? Do they disappear, or are the backed up and pending? Will you gradually get 80 AWKP a day from previously won chests?
Spending small amounts while expecting to receive large returns from chests is not hunting, that's fishing. Hunting is finishing an AW with a group in one go. Not donating 1kp in hopes of getting a chest in return once the AW is filled by the owner.
However to get back to your question; you will still receive the instants in those chests, as they go into your inventory. However you will then no longer be able to receive kp donated into your own AWs, unless you go on a kp spending spree elsewhere first.

The limit is on what you can receive in your AWs, not on what you can receive in your inventory.
 

FieryArien

Necromancer
Wow, that escalated quickly. I’m glad I didn’t have time to post anymore. ;-)
@Killiak I told you my source was beta, see page 3.
Thanks @Alcaro for trying to settle the issue. The link was handy.

PS: it’s she. (Arien is actually a character mentioned in a book named Silmarillion.)
 

Killiak

Artisan
@Killiak I told you my source was beta, see page 3.

No, I play on beta and the info was pretty clear.

The anti-pushing system, or rather the anti-active people who like to progress their city system
Anyway, that was not a reply to me, but to user Far Reach. So just to be pedantic about it, you didn't tell me.

And again; I don't play on Beta. I am not on the Beta forum. Surprisingly, it is still not my hobby to traverse 16+ page topics for a shred of information. Provide a link to the proof next time please, when you are telling me that I am wrong in some way. Works a whole lot better.
 
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Sir Derf

Sage
I debated whether to put hunter in scare quotes... I was just trying to repeat the wording already being used...
 

FieryArien

Necromancer
The anti-pushing system, or rather the anti-active people who like to progress their city system
Anyway, that was not a reply to me, but to user Far Reach. So just to be pedantic about it, you didn't tell me.

And again; I don't play on Beta. I am not on the Beta forum. Surprisingly, it is still not my hobby to traverse 16+ page topics for a shred of information. Provide a link to the proof next time please, when you are telling me that I am wrong in some way. Works a whole lot better.
Sorry, you are correct, it wasn’t a reply to your quote.

And no, I don’t think my word should be treated differently than the word of others. I shouldn’t be required to proactively post links to support my claims. Yes, I can do that when asked (preferably politely), just like any other member on this forums. (In this particular case instead of me it was Alcaro who very fast responded to the request for source.)

To return back on topic: the various reports of receiving random donations of hundreds or even thousands of points are worrying. That has the potential to harm people who actually don’t participate on any system for getting huge amounts of KP. Moderators, have you noticed that feedback in this thread? I hope so…
 

C-Nymph

Scholar
That has the potential to harm people who actually don’t participate on any system for getting huge amounts of KP. Moderators, have you noticed that feedback in this thread? I hope so…
You can basically bully someone out of completing a desired AW by donating an amount of kp equal to their limit into AWs they aren't interested in upgrading ever... As this will result in them no longer being able to receive KP into the AW of their choice... And these bullies will get rewarded for that by an increase of their own limit!

So people with multiple push accounts that have reached their own kp receiving limit, can then just go bully a couple random other players and donate heaps of kp there, after which they can continue to receive kp from their push accounts again to complete their own AWs.
 
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Killiak

Artisan
And no, I don’t think my word should be treated differently than the word of others. I shouldn’t be required to proactively post links to support my claims.

I expect everybody who makes claims, or puts down information on how a system works, to support said claims with proof. Everybody.
So no, I don't treat your word any different than anybody else's.

As far as people receiving stupid amounts of KP ( in AW's they don't want to upgrade further) and being locked out.... that's me right now.
 

Herodite

Senior Forum Moderator
Elvenar Team

Hekata

Summoner
In the Dev Tools (Ctrl + Shift+ i combo, in a browser), under the json. Either from someone's AW overview in their village, or by clicking the AW button in the fellowship overview.
Are you sure this is correct? Because my balance says I'm -1 and yet I haven't been hunting or participating in any kind of swaps for a long time now. And I've checked my AWs and found just one large random donation of 210 kps (I don't even know if it's recent or old) which I gave back but it still say -1.
 

Killiak

Artisan
Are you sure this is correct? Because my balance says I'm -1 and yet I haven't been hunting or participating in any kind of swaps for a long time now. And I've checked my AWs and found just one large random donation of 210 kps (I don't even know if it's recent or old) which I gave back but it still say -1.

Sorry, I should have mentioned that you can only see it from other people
If you look at yourself, you will see -1. This is because you can donate to your own AW's without any kind of limit. ( -1 = infinite )
 
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Hekata

Summoner
Sorry, I should have mentioned that you can only see it from other people

If you look at yourself, you will see -1. This is because you can donate to your own AW's without any kind of limit. ( -1 = infinite )
Oh, ok, poor guy on whom I've just dumped 400 kps to try to get me into positive numbers, I hope he doesn't get blocked. lol :)
Thanks for the tip though, I can use to to check my fellows numbers in case the get blocked.
 

C-Nymph

Scholar
Are you sure this is correct? Because my balance says I'm -1 and yet I haven't been hunting or participating in any kind of swaps for a long time now. And I've checked my AWs and found just one large random donation of 210 kps (I don't even know if it's recent or old) which I gave back but it still say -1.
You can't check your own balance, because there is no limit to donating to your own Aws. You can only check the balance of other people. So if you want to know yours, have some one else check your balance.

Edit: sorry, I see it has already been explained ;) Note to self: refresh thread before replying after walking away from pc for a couple minutes :p
 

Hekata

Summoner
You can't check your own balance, because there is no limit to donating to your own Aws. You can only check the balance of other people. So if you want to know yours, have some one else check your balance.

Edit: sorry, I see it has already been explained ;)
No worries, I appreciate the quick answers from both of you :)
 

Far Reach

Conjurer
What part do you refer to? You mean if I’m speculating how the system works? No, I play on beta and the info was pretty clear. This anti-pushing system is simple (and quite effective I’d say). It compares the amount of KP received (from other players and bonus chests) with the amount of KP given out (to other players and from chests in your own finished wonders). There is also some bonus allowance we accrue daily. That’s basically all. It very effectively prevents pushing - feeding one player with KP from many (small) accounts.

Yes, we now know this for sure. Any KP instant you receive counts against your balance.
I tested it with my fellows, as they could only put 2kp in my Mountain Halls, because of the balance being so screwed for me. So, I went and found somebody who only needed 3kp in their Ancient Wonder for it to finish. This gave me a 5kp instant, which would then push my balance in the red for 2kp -> consequently my fellows could no longer donate to my Mountain Halls

Thank you both for your answer (to my question about how the new system affects hunters). Personally I'm surprised because I'm an active hunter and would certainly have expected to have been locked by now if the system worked as implied.

PS: If you really know about better and easier way, you can share it in the ideas section. I mean it seriously. If it makes Elvenar better and/or fairer, it’s definitely worth sharing!

I was just saying that suitable ways exist. If it turns out that Inno aren't implementing one of them then I'll suggest something in the ideas section.

There are good reasons valid including reward chests in the calculation incidentally (e.g. so as not to penalise chest matching KP sharing schemes), and I vaguely recall this being discussed in an old forum thread about practical automated anti-pushing methods.
 

C-Nymph

Scholar
Personally I'm surprised because I'm an active hunter and would certainly have expected to have been locked by now if the system worked as implied.
Are you a hunter or a fisher? If you add only a couple kp into different AWs after which you wait for the owner of the AW to finish filling the AW, hoping to get a couple instants, you are a fisher (as you wait for the fish to bite). If you calculate exactly how much kp is needed and use a group of hunters to completely fill the AW by each putting in a certain amount and every member of your hunt group walking away with large amounts of instants, then you are a hunter (as you instantly kill the prey and walk away with the prize).

As a fisher, the amount of kp you gain is probably not as high compared to the amount a hunter gets. So if that applies to your strategy, that could explain why you haven't been locked yet. If you are indeed a hunter and not a fisher, then I have no idea how you have not been blocked yet but then please do tell us your secret method ;)
 

Far Reach

Conjurer
For what it is worth, I did some calculations and have confirmed the comments from @FieryArien and @Killiak that instants from chest rewards count against the kp balance. I don't think that this is a big deal though.

One way to ensure that kp investors aren't affected (if Inno don't intend for them to be) would be to instead count the minimum of the chest reward and the donor's investment against the donor's kp balance.

One way to try to deal with "free kp" investments locking further donations is to make sure that the favourite AW is properly set. It shouldn't be much of a problem if donations to our favoured wonder are only blocked when folks dump the same amount of free kp into it.
 

Skallywag

Adventurer
I don't really agree with the criticisms levelled by @Killiak and @Skallywag about communication and donation blocking.
...
This Rune-shards change was announced in Beta several weeks ago, and as a consequence it was discussed on these forums (and in my fellowship) before being released here.
No Beta players in my FS. So any communication there didn't make it to us in the EN world. However, because you obviously are on the Beta forums, your FS, unlike ours and others, was able to prepare for this change.
The fact the the EN forum announcement happened shortly after the release (and not before) is something which commonly occurs for some other changes too (such as the introduction of new Chapters).
...
As far as I remember, the anti-pushing measure wasn't formally announced, and I don't see why it should have been...
So, because there was a lack of communication for previous releases, it's OK for this one to also go out without any communication? My objection is there was no communication (outside of Beta) about a limit on KP swaps, and good players with good intentions KP bombed others, locking many accounts. And now people are trying to figure out how to crawl out of that wreckage. So that leads to more KP bombing. A simple announcement that a KP balance system was going into place would have sufficed.
No-one in my FW has been affected (despite numerous very large KP swaps), and as far as I can see it will only hurt those who wish to have regular unbalanced exchanges of kp in their favour (which is explicitly against the rules). If someone if being affected unfairly then a natural response would be to raise a support ticket and let them investigate.
So KP hunting is explicitly against the rules? Regardless, you make my point for me. Nobody in your FS was affected, because you had prior knowledge. We did not. If the same message had been communicated to us, we would have done just as well as your FS.
Am I missing something ? What is the collateral damage associated with anti-pushing which @Skallywag refers to ?
I mentioned the tourney changes as one example. This situation is another example.
 
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