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Runeshard Changes

Regina8

Conjurer
I didn´t like these changes, it is too much KP, it mainly benefit long time gamers that didn´t had their AWs fully upgraded.
It would have been cool the shards were 3 KP for domestic use and 5kp for donating to your fellows AWs.
Oh and this new feature penalize KP hunters, looks like Inno at the end attended the complaints from those that got angry because someone gave them free 5 kp in their AWs (uuuhhh so evil kp hunters).

Besides that, it is good that at last (according to Silmaril claims) Inno is trying to do something at respect of push accounts ( But they failed in the proper measure to stop them, affecting with this a sector of players that enjoy kp hunting).
Well, I can only say to this, that I rarely met anyone asking for less, than what they have lol. If any decrease will take place, I can safely say, that I will be quitting this game and I'm sure, not only I... As to KP hunting, most of players don't have time to spend hours and hours on it. Also, many players highly annoyed by it, so at least now hunters will have to up their stakes to get those reward chests.
 
Well, I can only say to this, that I rarely met anyone asking for less, than what they have lol. If any decrease will take place, I can safely say, that I
LOL, so you´ll be quitting for something that a week ago didn´t existed? Do you know that you were playing for years with a value of 0 (zero) kp per shard?
Players have leaved this game by measures that are far more unfair than just decreasing the value of something that some days ago was nothing.

As to KP hunting, most of players don't have time to spend hours and hours on it. Also, many players highly annoyed by it, so at least now hunters will have to up their stakes to get those reward chests.

Hunting was not against the rules, it happens that some lazy people was jealous that hunters were getting huge amounts of KP, but now that these players receive enormous KP quantities by shards convertion they are happy to block an important fun and resource from a part of Elvenar population.
But anyway is not you whom I must direct my argument about the negatives of these new changes since you´re obviously happy with all this new changes without thinking in how these would affect the general panorama of the game.
 

Regina8

Conjurer
LOL, so you´ll be quitting for something that a week ago didn´t existed? Do you know that you were playing for years with a value of 0 (zero) kp per shard?
Players have leaved this game by measures that are far more unfair than just decreasing the value of something that some days ago was nothing.
Yep and I've been through it all, but this might just break the camel's back. Taking away something good, never goes down well with the crowds lol.

Hunting was not against the rules, it happens that some lazy people was jealous that hunters were getting huge amounts of KP, but now that these players receive enormous KP quantities by shards convertion they are happy to block an important fun and resource from a part of Elvenar population.
I personally, was never jealous and hunted before, when I had time, it was fun. However, this is finally an opportunity for players that don't have time for hunts, to upgrade their AWs. Rune shards will run out soon enough, after all, we have accumulated them for years. Don't you think that players who's been here for years (me, me, me), deserve finally to have some AWs at level 35?

But anyway is not you whom I must direct my argument about the negatives of these new changes since you´re obviously happy with all this new changes without thinking in how these would affect the general panorama of the game.
I'm just a player and I'm here for entertainment. Thinking about the consequences is Inno's job and I'm sure they know, what they are doing (that sounded too optimistic lol). What I'm trying to say is, we don't know what their plans for the future are and why they've given us this opportunity, but I'll grab it, while it lasts.
 

Skallywag

Adventurer
I didn´t like these changes, it is too much KP, it mainly benefit long time gamers that didn´t had their AWs fully upgraded.
Long time gamers like myself have shown a lot of loyalty to the game (and money BTW) to INNO for a long time. I think it's about time we get rewarded for that. In what kind of game can you show up as a newbie, and in a relatively short amount of time pass players who have been at it for years? It might make it take longer for you to catch up with us, but you will eventually if you keep at it.

It's bad enough that they leveled the playing field for the Tournaments so newer, smaller cities have an advantage over larger, older ones.

Oh and this new feature penalize KP hunters, looks like Inno at the end attended the complaints from those that got angry because someone gave them free 5 kp in their AWs (uuuhhh so evil kp hunters).
I am failing to see how this does anything but *help* KP hunters. You are giving away KP's, which the new system rewards. In exchange you receive KP instants. If you spend those on yourself, no penalty. Or, you swap them, no penalty. On top of all that, if you are lucky you score chests that have runes, which you can turn into more KP's. What am I missing, how does this hurt KP hunters?
Besides that, it is good that at last (according to Silmaril claims) Inno is trying to do something at respect of push accounts ( But they failed in the proper measure to stop them, affecting with this a sector of players that enjoy kp hunting).
There is plenty of collateral damage caused by the various attempts at preventing push accounts. The tourney changes hurt older cities that actively worked to upgrade their AW's, and grew their city size. Now, to be the perfect tourney city, don't make your city too big, build up only military AW's and buildings, and, if you got lucky and spent a ton of coin on the right events, score a bunch of Fire Phoenix (which stack) so your troops kill anything in their way. That's it.

I don't see this change hurting KP hunting, but I see it hurting certain kinds of KP trading systems, and fellowships that offer KP's as prizes and rewards for accomplishments. In addition to push accounts of course.

Overall, I think this is a great change, but needed and still needs some kind of communication to explain the changes.

Cheers!
 

Skallywag

Adventurer
Without telling us that one was put in place recently, and without telling us that it has direct consequences on sharing KP.
We had to stumble across it and experience the annoyance of it, without even knowing what it was.

Inno REALLY needs to communicate better, and you as CM are in the driver seat on this. Please do better.
I will second that. Even if Inno had put out a notice a couple of days in advance - saying a change is coming that will require trading KP's and limit how much you can receive from others without reciprocating - that would have given us enough of a heads up to avoid the headaches we are now suffering.

There are players who still haven't grasped the system that are locking other players accounts. It's then this reactionary domino effect of KP limit carnage that is a real pain in the, errr, neck.
 

Far Reach

Conjurer
I broadly like these changes. They make fully levelling up AWs more realistic for the average player, provide a use for surplus runes, encourage FW collaboration and also introduce a (long overdue) automated way to address pushing.

I don't really agree with the criticisms levelled by @Killiak and @Skallywag about communication and donation blocking.

This Rune-shards change was announced in Beta several weeks ago, and as a consequence it was discussed on these forums (and in my fellowship) before being released here. The fact the the EN forum announcement happened shortly after the release (and not before) is something which commonly occurs for some other changes too (such as the introduction of new Chapters).

The ability to use rune-shards as AW kp doesn't directly require anyone to do anything differently. It provides options which players and Fellowships may want to pursue however. I see it as entirely up to players and FWs to decide how they will respond.

As far as I remember, the anti-pushing measure wasn't formally announced, and I don't see why it should have been. (I recall that one of the moderators indicated that the game was already calculating unbalanced kp exchanges previously, but that the triggered responses were only introduced with the latest change.) No-one in my FW has been affected (despite numerous very large KP swaps), and as far as I can see it will only hurt those who wish to have regular unbalanced exchanges of kp in their favour (which is explicitly against the rules). If someone if being affected unfairly then a natural response would be to raise a support ticket and let them investigate.

Am I missing something ? What is the collateral damage associated with anti-pushing which @Skallywag refers to ?
 
Long time gamers like myself have shown a lot of loyalty to the game (and money BTW) to INNO for a long time. I think it's about time we get rewarded for that. In what kind of game can you show up as a newbie, and in a relatively short amount of time pass players who have been at it for years? It might make it take longer for you to catch up with us, but you will eventually if you keep at it.
It´s not about money (in contrary case many of my suggestions would have been placed since these suggestions would have give Inno lot of money, and many players that we actually have contributed with money would have been taken in consideration for past changes). Big gaming industries need to create new incomer marketing, this is always a "must", contrary case these video games industries die (erghh... Blizzard cough cough).

It's bad enough that they leveled the playing field for the Tournaments so newer, smaller cities have an advantage over larger, older ones.
It is not, the only ones that have a big tourney/spire advantage over all players are those that stay in the end of the 15th chapter/begin of the 16th chapter and those that has only fighting AWs upgraded.
A small 6th chapter city would never compete with a 18th chapter city, the last one always would reach higher number in tourney and a much easier Spire.

I am failing to see how this does anything but *help* KP hunters. You are giving away KP's, which the new system rewards. In exchange you receive KP instants. If you spend those on yourself, no penalty. Or, you swap them, no penalty. On top of all that, if you are lucky you score chests that have runes, which you can turn into more KP's. What am I missing, how does this hurt KP hunters?

There is plenty of collateral damage caused by the various attempts at preventing push accounts. The tourney changes hurt older cities that actively worked to upgrade their AW's, and grew their city size. Now, to be the perfect tourney city, don't make your city too big, build up only military AW's and buildings, and, if you got lucky and spent a ton of coin on the right events, score a bunch of Fire Phoenix (which stack) so your troops kill anything in their way. That's it.

I don't see this change hurting KP hunting, but I see it hurting certain kinds of KP trading systems, and fellowships that offer KP's as prizes and rewards for accomplishments. In addition to push accounts of course.
It hurts Kp Hunting in the measure that KP hunters would lose their balance in how much KP they give vs how much KP they receive. Many hunters tend to give hundreds of KP every week to many targets, they would obviously lose balance and would see the new KP lock as soon their balance reach the limit.

Yes, it does happens to older cities with big developed AWs, and in that aspect, wouldn´t players that would receive enormous quantities of KP via shards stop from upgrading more AWs with all that KP that this new feature is offering? Wouldnt this new feature be a not that positive change for you (big penalized cities) since you would get penalize even more in your tourney/spire? And yes, positive, these new changes Inno introduced some time ago are leading gamers to stop from reaching higher chapters, upgrading non-military AWs and placing new expansions.

At respect of Fire/Brown bear stackability I asked for this some time ago, and offered the possibility to acquire new bases of them for all elvenar community but, it turned offending some players that loved to be that big advantage/imbalance over the entire majority of players that don´t posses them. https://en.forum.elvenar.com/index....nix-stackability-not-fair-for-the-game.15200/

Overall, I think this is a great change, but needed and still needs some kind of communication to explain the changes.

Yes it does.
 
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I personally, was never jealous and hunted before, when I had time, it was fun. However, this is finally an opportunity for players that don't have time for hunts, to upgrade their AWs. Rune shards will run out soon enough, after all, we have accumulated them for years. Don't you think that players who's been here for years (me, me, me), deserve finally to have some AWs at level 35?

I have been in this game only 2 years and I have all my fighting AWs in the maximum level needed to be efficient (several at the 35th level, some at the 31th level), how is it you that have been playing around 5 years and that confessed you´ve been doing occasionally KP hunting, don´t having any Wonder at the 35th level, any one?

I'm just a player and I'm here for entertainment. Thinking about the consequences is Inno's job and I'm sure they know, what they are doing (that sounded too optimistic lol). What I'm trying to say is, we don't know what their plans for the future are and why they've given us this opportunity, but I'll grab it, while it lasts.

A game must be balanced and have dose of complicacy to be fun and entertained, if you all had all your AWs for free at their maximum level for free you wouldn´t be interested that much in these to begin with, and by that same reason you wouldnt understand the importance of these new changes at respect of AWs.
 

Stucon

Sorcerer
A weekend of mayhem and fun in the FS. Setting up and delivering shard swaps.
It's been Grrr ate as acertin tiger would say.
 

Killiak

Artisan
I have noticed some people dumping massive amounts of KP in other people their villages, including my own, probably to offset their own KP balances.
However nice free KP might be, this is mucking up the KP balances of many people in my FS, and causing issues in the day-to-day business. It's a bother.
 

Jake65

Enchanter
Does the KP 'lock' apply to the recipient or the donor/hunter?
 

FieryArien

Necromancer
Does the KP 'lock' apply to the recipient or the donor/hunter?
Both are eligible. It’s not about hunting, it’s about pushing (yes, I know, extreme/hardcore hunting isn’t pushing, it just shares the markers and the system isn’t able to distinguish between them). It’s all about balance of points received and contributed.

If the hunter receives many many more points than they contribute (from all the chests they hunted), the hunter is locked. It doesn’t cause problems in hunting itself, it only means that hunter’s own wonders won’t be able to receive any contributions from other players.

If the recipient already received many many more points than they contributed, it can happen that the hunter’s contribution tips the balance finally over and the recipient is locked. Recipient’s wonders won’t accept any more donations from other players until the recipient’s balance gets back to positive numbers.
 

Jake65

Enchanter
Both are eligible. It’s not about hunting, it’s about pushing (yes, I know, extreme/hardcore hunting isn’t pushing, it just shares the markers and the system isn’t able to distinguish between them). It’s all about balance of points received and contributed.

If the hunter receives many many more points than they contribute (from all the chests they hunted), the hunter is locked. It doesn’t cause problems in hunting itself, it only means that hunter’s own wonders won’t be able to receive any contributions from other players.

If the recipient already received many many more points than they contributed, it can happen that the hunter’s contribution tips the balance finally over and the recipient is locked. Recipient’s wonders won’t accept any more donations from other players until the recipient’s balance gets back to positive numbers.
Thanks. If I understand correctly the hunter would get locked because of what they receive, not what they give?
This comment above " It hurts Kp Hunting in the measure that KP hunters would lose their balance in how much KP they give vs how much KP they receive. Many hunters tend to give hundreds of KP every week to many targets, they would obviously lose balance and would see the new KP lock as soon their balance reach the limit. " confused me.
I guess one just needs to be mindful to not dump too many shards/KP onto one person. Rather share the love :)
 

Far Reach

Conjurer
Both are eligible. It’s not about hunting, it’s about pushing (yes, I know, extreme/hardcore hunting isn’t pushing, it just shares the markers and the system isn’t able to distinguish between them). It’s all about balance of points received and contributed.

If the hunter receives many many more points than they contribute (from all the chests they hunted), the hunter is locked. It doesn’t cause problems in hunting itself, it only means that hunter’s own wonders won’t be able to receive any contributions from other players.

Do you know this for sure, or are you just speculating ? I can certainly think of easy ways of implementing the feature which would trap pushers but not hunters.
 

FieryArien

Necromancer
Thanks. If I understand correctly the hunter would get locked because of what they receive, not what they give?
This comment above " It hurts Kp Hunting in the measure that KP hunters would lose their balance in how much KP they give vs how much KP they receive. Many hunters tend to give hundreds of KP every week to many targets, they would obviously lose balance and would see the new KP lock as soon their balance reach the limit. " confused me.
I guess one just needs to be mindful to not dump too many shards/KP onto one person. Rather share the love :)
Yes, that comment unfortunately fails to describe what happens. You really cannot get locked by giving out KP. You can always give out KP. (Unless you are trying to give them to a player who is locked. But than - just choose another player.)
(What the comment might wanted to say is that hunters receive so many points that their own wonders get locked from foreign contributions. But here I’m obviously speculating.)

As for being mindful to not dump too many shards/KP onto one person. Well, not really. If it’s an exchange, not a gift, it doesn’t cause any problems. The imbalance allowance if big and it gets fixed right when the other person does their part of exchange.
 

FieryArien

Necromancer
Do you know this for sure, or are you just speculating ? I can certainly think of easy ways of implementing the feature which would trap pushers but not hunters.
What part do you refer to? You mean if I’m speculating how the system works? No, I play on beta and the info was pretty clear. This anti-pushing system is simple (and quite effective I’d say). It compares the amount of KP received (from other players and bonus chests) with the amount of KP given out (to other players and from chests in your own finished wonders). There is also some bonus allowance we accrue daily. That’s basically all. It very effectively prevents pushing - feeding one player with KP from many (small) accounts.

The shared marker I wrote about is obvious - hunters receive way more KP than they give out. That’s the purpose of hunting - to invest less than the chest is worth.

PS: If you really know about better and easier way, you can share it in the ideas section. I mean it seriously. If it makes Elvenar better and/or fairer, it’s definitely worth sharing!
 

Killiak

Artisan
As for being mindful to not dump too many shards/KP onto one person. Well, not really. If it’s an exchange, not a gift, it doesn’t cause any problems. The imbalance allowance if big and it gets fixed right when the other person does their part of exchange.

That is the issue some of us are facing. Several people in my fellowship have been targeted by people who just dumped a bunch of rune shards to apparently balance themselves out, causing our players to get locked. It's terribly annoying when our member has posted in the KP swap threads and then cannot be donated to anymore.

Also, it seems that then donating KP elsewhere yourself, to balance out again, has a lesser effect on the balance! I wanted to swap 20kp with a member. I put 20kp into them, but they could not return 20kp because I had received 100's of KP before today from some random person.
I won't bemoan the free KP.... but I will bemoan the nuisance that this system causes.



Edit: I just tested it with my fellows:
Receiving KP instants ALSO counts AGAINST your balance! Hunters just got double screwed over by Inno.



 
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FieryArien

Necromancer
That is the issue some of us are facing. Several people in my fellowship have been targeted by people who just dumped a bunch of rune shards to apparently balance themselves out, causing our players to get locked. It's terribly annoying when our member has posted in the KP swap threads and then cannot be donated to anymore.

Also, it seems that then donating KP elsewhere yourself, to balance out again, has a lesser effect on the balance! I wanted to swap 20kp with a member. I put 20kp into them, but they could not return 20kp because I had received 100's of KP before today from some random person.
I won't bemoan the free KP.... but I will bemoan the nuisance that this system causes.
Wow, considering that originally the initial imbalance allowance was in order of low thousands, I’m torn between feeling sorry for you getting locked and envying you those loads of KP. o_O
No seriously, this is very weird situation you are in. I wish you a speedy resolution of this problem. And if you feel you are being harassed, there is always the option to contact support.
 

Killiak

Artisan
Do you know this for sure, or are you just speculating ? I can certainly think of easy ways of implementing the feature which would trap pushers but not hunters.

Yes, we now know this for sure. Any KP instant you receive counts against your balance.
I tested it with my fellows, as they could only put 2kp in my Mountain Halls, because of the balance being so screwed for me. So, I went and found somebody who only needed 3kp in their Ancient Wonder for it to finish. This gave me a 5kp instant, which would then push my balance in the red for 2kp -> consequently my fellows could no longer donate to my Mountain Halls

So:
- are you very active in KP swap threads and receive multiple chests a day? You are screwed
- are you an active hunter receiving a lot of instants per day? You are screwed
-are you active in the swap threads because you are an active hunter? You are double screwed

@Silmaril Here's feedback for the devs; your system screws over people who play your game actively, and who play by the rules and put in a lot of fair effort to upgrade their AW's. It's a bad system right now, and Inno should remove the 'received KP instants counting against your balance' bit.
 
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