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Rise of the Phoenix Cult

CrazyWizard

Shaman
Stop wasting your Orcs on catering and use them to train Strats instead ;) Just skip catering one time and you can train a LOT of strategists ... It´s not that bad to train them. Sure annoying, but not the end of the world... nobody says you have to make them 24/7 on a lvl 31 vic springs, but it´s easy enough to get enough of them for encounters with 5 LR enemies... I keep 500 squads or so around, just by not wasting them (as you suggest) and training them when I don´t train dogs or dryads. It´s not an issue at all.
most people will not be able to swallow a 50-100K orks
and that would give you like 20-40 troops (ok more with 3 bears and level 30 sapiens but that should not be a standard in any shape, way or form)

I sometimes waste 500 troops on like 5 provinces.
So why go trough the effort of making them?

other players use a lot less units, but they also make a lot less orks and are in dire need for those orks for upgrades and research
They just do not have spare orks to waste. and I can't make them in enough quantities
 

CrazyWizard

Shaman
So you honestly believe dogs will do better than Drones against 4 LR and 1 M? Because I think those LR are going to poke a lot of holes into your dogs before they even get started ;)

The rest I am in total agreement with you ;)
Depends, if there is even a little bit of blockage on the map, then the dogs will outperform thanks to there excellent range.
Often it's not which unit is the best on paper, but which unit is the most stable under most conditions.

On paper the treant is far superior to the paladin / vallorian guard.
In practise the palladin / valoirian guard work better as they create more stable results.
 

Pauly7

Magus
Stop wasting your Orcs on catering and use them to train Strats instead ;) Just skip catering one time and you can train a LOT of strategists
What if you do neither? I think that's the case for a lot of people and for the majority the cost of 1 orc to 1 orc strat is prohibitively expensive. I can't remember what you said, but I seem to recall that you have large numbers of armouries churning out orcs. For the people that don't, that's not something where they can say "oh I didn't think of that - I'll just knock out 500 squads of orc strats for a back up". Remember that the average player probably only dreams about having 500 squads of anything, let alone having enough free orcs to justify more than a few squads of strats.

I like to think my orc supply is pretty stable now and I have a comfortable buffer of 300k of them. However, if I decided to turn all those into strats I wouldn't get that number of squads that you are talking about and I wouldn't have the orcs I need for other reasons.
 

Gargon667

Immortal
What if you do neither? I think that's the case for a lot of people and for the majority the cost of 1 orc to 1 orc strat is prohibitively expensive. I can't remember what you said, but I seem to recall that you have large numbers of armouries churning out orcs. For the people that don't, that's not something where they can say "oh I didn't think of that - I'll just knock out 500 squads of orc strats for a back up". Remember that the average player probably only dreams about having 500 squads of anything, let alone having enough free orcs to justify more than a few squads of strats.

I like to think my orc supply is pretty stable now and I have a comfortable buffer of 300k of them. However, if I decided to turn all those into strats I wouldn't get that number of squads that you are talking about and I wouldn't have the orcs I need for other reasons.
true, but if you don´t play the high provinces, simply divide the above by 10 (or whatever factor fits your ambitions) I´d say aim for 5% of your troops to be Or Strats? Does that sound more reasonable?

300k Orcs make quite a few Orc Strat squads, depending on your Simia and brown bear of course.

Yes I do have tons of armories, far more than i need for Orc production, so it is very hard for me to estimate how many are "necessary" I would say: If you are just on the edge for Orcs right now, build one more armory instead of whatever factory and use those Orcs to make Strategists with. I think that could be a reasonable advice for anyone who wants to have some without much trouble. How much that makes I cannot say, but some for sure. And one doesn´t need tons.
 

Gargon667

Immortal
Depends, if there is even a little bit of blockage on the map, then the dogs will outperform thanks to there excellent range.
Often it's not which unit is the best on paper, but which unit is the most stable under most conditions.

On paper the treant is far superior to the paladin / vallorian guard.
In practise the palladin / valoirian guard work better as they create more stable results.
True as well :) but I think in this special case it is not too likely an issue. It would have to be a more or less total blockage close enough to your units to still allow the enemy LR to shoot you, which is very rare. Otherwise the enemy LR go first and walk right into your range. Even Sword Dancers would have enough range to attack, the Drones have an extra one on top of that. So I think that advantage for dogs is rather small. But taking the initial hit from LR will be much worse for dogs. Makes me think the average results of Drone will be much better than the average results of dogs. 95% of the time you´ll be better off, but 5% of the case you´ll be (far) worse off...
 

Gargon667

Immortal
most people will not be able to swallow a 50-100K orks
and that would give you like 20-40 troops (ok more with 3 bears and level 30 sapiens but that should not be a standard in any shape, way or form)

I sometimes waste 500 troops on like 5 provinces.
So why go trough the effort of making them?

other players use a lot less units, but they also make a lot less orks and are in dire need for those orks for upgrades and research
They just do not have spare orks to waste. and I can't make them in enough quantities
that comment was for you personally ;) Wasn´t it you who said you need 80k Orcs for 1 catering? so I said 1 catering less and you can make a nice amount of Strategists :) If it was not you then don´t mind me babbling on about nothing, I must have dreamed it or something...
Sure 500 squads are killed quickly, but not 500 Strategists, I simply don´t use them often enough for that and when I use them, they do´t die that much, that´s the whole point of using them. 500 squads of cannon fodder are gone in an instant lol. Which is the reason why it´s called cannon fodder...
 

CrazyWizard

Shaman
that comment was for you personally ;) Wasn´t it you who said you need 80k Orcs for 1 catering? so I said 1 catering less and you can make a nice amount of Strategists :) If it was not you then don´t mind me babbling on about nothing, I must have dreamed it or something...
Sure 500 squads are killed quickly, but not 500 Strategists, I simply don´t use them often enough for that and when I use them, they do´t die that much, that´s the whole point of using them. 500 squads of cannon fodder are gone in an instant lol. Which is the reason why it´s called cannon fodder...
There is a reason I cater sometimes,

and thats not because I lack orc strategists ;)

The point is that a golem can suffice in most cases, yes it might have higher losses, but is's also way easier replaced.
A golem only costs some supplies and I can make those in the trillions if needed. orcs on the other hand are a lot harder to come by.
If you convert the cost of a strategist back to supplies it's not more expensive, it's just the speed at which you can make orks thats the issue.

And no I cannot recommend in good concience that player would build 26 armories to combat this.
So the issue of this unit is that you cannot replace it the same way you can replace other units.

Sometimes the best unit is the unit you can get in enough quantities instead of which has the best stats.
 

Gargon667

Immortal
There is a reason I cater sometimes,

and thats not because I lack orc strategists ;)

The point is that a golem can suffice in most cases, yes it might have higher losses, but is's also way easier replaced.
A golem only costs some supplies and I can make those in the trillions if needed. orcs on the other hand are a lot harder to come by.
If you convert the cost of a strategist back to supplies it's not more expensive, it's just the speed at which you can make orks thats the issue.

And no I cannot recommend in good concience that player would build 26 armories to combat this.
So the issue of this unit is that you cannot replace it the same way you can replace other units.

Sometimes the best unit is the unit you can get in enough quantities instead of which has the best stats.
I agree with all of the above and never said anything different :D I do use Golems far more than any other HR unit as well for all those reasons.

All I said is if you want Orc Startegists you can just next time not cater one encounter and you can make a whole bunch of them, it´s a choice you have. And for towns like ours 100k Orcs isn´t really a thing. If you cater with Orcs you´re of course not swimming in them like I do, but still it´s not going to cause you a headache... While having a few squads of Strategists for fights against 5 squads of Mist Walkers and friends is just too much fun to pass up, well obviously that is my personal entertainment program and not necessarily everybody´s cup of tea, but there it is :D

And also no, it is not important to reach any goals at all in this game to have Orc Strategists. You can easily do everything there is without ever having had a single one of them (which is true for all units except Rangers, Blossom mages and Golems, maybe Frogs). Which also means one doesn´t have to have training grounds at all. Except the fun of having all the stuff and tickling out a little extra here and there, but no, none of it is important. However talking about nothing but pure basics get very old very fast.
 

Lelanya

Mentor
Um
Here I thought this is a feedback thread for the event that is currently runnin, not a debate on troop merits.

I like the event, although it always seems to come hard on the heels of other events/activities including another FA held during the North American time change, the end result is we are drained of energy. It sure would be nice if Inmo got themselves a calendar and kept track of things like this.
 

Gargon667

Immortal
Um
Here I thought this is a feedback thread for the event that is currently runnin, not a debate on troop merits.
And you can see how much discussion is going on in threads about events nowadays... They are all so interchangable and boring nothing of interest is left to say after a day, where all the old stuff is reapeated from last event. Tangents completely unrelated to events are far more entertaining and clearly attract more attention ;) I am not saying 3 people is lots of attention really, but still 3 more than want to talk about these events...
 

SoggyShorts

Necromancer
you can see how much discussion is going on in threads about events nowadays... They are all so interchangable and boring nothing of interest is left to say after a day, where all the old stuff is reapeated from last event.
At the risk of going on another tangent, at least the upcoming FA is going to be something new and interesting with unique prizes and a real reason to complete more than just one path.
On a totally unrelated note: It's still the 1st of April, right?
 

Gargon667

Immortal
At the risk of going on another tangent, at least the upcoming FA is going to be something new and interesting with unique prizes and a real reason to complete more than just one path.
On a totally unrelated note: It's still the 1st of April, right?
Haha, you know we can now paint one of the paths as preferred? And I think there was a Ferris Wheel, too! Small pleasures are still pleasures ;)
 

Vorbog

Adventurer
I had read, here at the forum, that at some point there will be opportunity to craft old Phoenix Artefacts for blueprints at the MA. I thought that it will be during the event but so far I didn't see this kind of recepie. Do you know more about it?
I need 2 old Artefacts to evolve my Storm phoenix and prefer to craft them for blueprints than to convert the new ones, that is why I am asking.
 

Pauly7

Magus
I had read, here at the forum, that at some point there will be opportunity to craft old Phoenix Artefacts for blueprints at the MA. I thought that it will be during the event but so far I didn't see this kind of recepie. Do you know more about it?
Yep, they've been there through the whole event so far. They don't come up all that often. The most I've seen in one city is it appearing twice. It costs 3 blueprints plus a stack of spell fragments.
 

Gargon667

Immortal
I had read, here at the forum, that at some point there will be opportunity to craft old Phoenix Artefacts for blueprints at the MA. I thought that it will be during the event but so far I didn't see this kind of recepie. Do you know more about it?
I need 2 old Artefacts to evolve my Storm phoenix and prefer to craft them for blueprints than to convert the new ones, that is why I am asking.
I think I´ve seen one of each recipe: 1 for blueprints and 1 for new artifacts.
 

Vorbog

Adventurer
Thank you, Guys!
I have 3 cities and in each of them I had only the recepie 2 new for 1 old Artefact, but not even ones the one for blueprints! Strange!
Is this recepie going to appear only during the event, or is going to be rare but constant feature at the MA?
 
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Pauly7

Magus
I don't know the percentages, but the blueprint recipe definitely appears to be rarer... to me anyway. That might be coincidence.
 

Gargon667

Immortal
Thank you, Guys!
I have 3 cities and in each of them I had only the recepie 2 new for 1 old Artefact, but not even ones the one for blueprints! Strange!
Is this recepie going to appear only during the event, or is going to be rare but constant feature at the MA?
I would guess it is event time only (including the following FA of course). But who knows with Inno.