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Rise of the Phoenix Cult

Gargon667

Mentor
I hadn´t had time to look at the quest list so far and already hit the end of the line yesterday lol, guess I will never bother with a quest list again...

I just need somebody to poke me when the Merc Camp instant pops up :D First fun daily prize in as long as I can remember!
 

Gargon667

Mentor
It's towards the end. Will you really get excited about free Drone Riders though?
Excited may be an exaggeration, but I like Drone Riders, occasionally they are even useful, but I never have any because my Merc Camp is busy with more important units, the instants may create just the small amount I like to have without costing me any production time :) And they 100% sure are better than Sword Dancers ;) So that´s definitely an upgrade.
 

FieryArien

Illusionist
Excited may be an exaggeration, but I like Drone Riders, occasionally they are even useful, but I never have any because my Merc Camp is busy with more important units, the instants may create just the small amount I like to have without costing me any production time :) And they 100% sure are better than Sword Dancers ;) So that´s definitely an upgrade.
There were Rangers instants on Beta. And actually sooner than Drone Riders (not sure if Pauly is trolling you :p or if he’d really already forgotten). I’ll try to remember and let you know when/if they show up.;)
 

Pauly7

Magus
There were Rangers instants on Beta. And actually sooner than Drone Riders (not sure if Pauly is trolling you :p or if he’d really already forgotten). I’ll try to remember and let you know when/if they show up.;)
I never saw a Ranger instant... Not sure how that passed me by.
 

DunkelSaturn

Enchanter
Excited may be an exaggeration, but I like Drone Riders, occasionally they are even useful, but I never have any because my Merc Camp is busy with more important units, the instants may create just the small amount I like to have without costing me any production time :) And they 100% sure are better than Sword Dancers ;) So that´s definitely an upgrade.
Drone riders are the most useless units from all, they die very easy vs almost all units (except LR) ; They don´t have the range (like dogs) or the HP (like sword dancer/axe barbarians) to reach the mages fast enough so they kill them faster than dogs. Heavy Range demolish them in an instant (even tho dogs can deal very well vs steinlings D.Riders are trash vs them); They also are inferior vs the same type of enemy unit (LM), different than dogs and SwordDr/AxeB.

Sword Dancers/axe Barbarians can be used (when playing manual) in some strategical moves because they have a good HP, but D.Riders neither have the HP from the first units nor the range of dogs.

I never, ever have the need to use a single time this unit, cause very very rarely enemy squads are formed only with LR units, and in such case I´d rather use Orc strategists.
 

Gargon667

Mentor
Drone riders are the most useless units from all, they die very easy vs almost all units (except LR) ; They don´t have the range (like dogs) or the HP (like sword dancer/axe barbarians) to reach the mages fast enough so they kill them faster than dogs. Heavy Range demolish them in an instant (even tho dogs can deal very well vs steinlings D.Riders are trash vs them); They also are inferior vs the same type of enemy unit (LM), different than dogs and SwordDr/AxeB.

Sword Dancers/axe Barbarians can be used (when playing manual) in some strategical moves because they have a good HP, but D.Riders neither have the HP from the first units nor the range of dogs.

I never, ever have the need to use a single time this unit, cause very very rarely enemy squads are formed only with LR units, and in such case I´d rather use Orc strategists.
If I had more of them I would probably use them more often. They are far better than Sword Dancers, for the simple reason that they have 1 more range. I just think of the enemies I like to fight. Ancient Orcs (=Drone Riders), are far more difficult to fight than Thieves (=Sword Dancers), which can easily be killed with zero losses by Blossoms.
So in fights with lots of LR and a few mages (which would kill valuable Orc Strats) I find the Drones better than dogs. In fights with lots of mages and few LR dogs would be better, but Rangers are far better still so I don´t use either of the LM troops.
Obviously those fights are not common, so there is no need for lots of Drones... but I could use more than 0 :)But of course more Rangers sure would be even better :)
 

DunkelSaturn

Enchanter
If I had more of them I would probably use them more often. They are far better than Sword Dancers, for the simple reason that they have 1 more range. I just think of the enemies I like to fight. Ancient Orcs (=Drone Riders), are far more difficult to fight than Thieves (=Sword Dancers), which can easily be killed with zero losses by Blossoms.
So in fights with lots of LR and a few mages (which would kill valuable Orc Strats) I find the Drones better than dogs. In fights with lots of mages and few LR dogs would be better, but Rangers are far better still so I don´t use either of the LM troops.
Obviously those fights are not common, so there is no need for lots of Drones... but I could use more than 0 :)But of course more Rangers sure would be even better :)
Dogs are better in enemy combo where more mages are involved than LR, and also the opposite (cause there´s still some mages in the battlefield), in the only fight where D.Riders are good is versus LR alone (not mages, and even less LM).
If you put in that combo LM, drone riders are even worst than dogs.
I find sword dancers better in auto-fights than drone riders, and in manual I can see why is that, even with -1 of range they tend to endure the enemy damage better, they´re more tanky, drone riders are in the middle (less range than a dog, less HP than a sword dancer).

Yes, orc strategists are more valuable, but you can have them for free with Grounds of the orc strategist building (in my case all my orc goods goes for the training grounds so I can produce orc strategists) , so they deal better vs LR, even your own archers are good vs enemy light range.

I don´t remember who was the person in this forum who asked INNO to improve LM units cause they have almost no use, but in general LM is bad, and D.Riders are the worst of LM.
 

Gargon667

Mentor
Dogs are better in enemy combo where more mages are involved than LR,
Are you serious about that? Because if you are, we can stop talking right now, this is utter nonsense... Unless you want to talk about the first 10 or 20 tourney provinces, you can use whatever you want and win, no good troops necessary.
Rangers beat Dogs against any combination of LR/M troops. They strike first, they have a shooting range AND they have ELRs. Dogs are useless in high province fights, they take heavy losses even against their preferred enemies...


in the only fight where D.Riders are good is versus LR alone
That would be pointless as Orc Strategists are far better at that and will basically have no losses, no point using Drones.
The only occasion when Drones are better than Orc Strats is when there is a Mage present. In that case I prefer not to lose Orcs and use Drones instead, losses should be slightly less. But how often do you get a fight with 4 LR and 1 M... (or maybe 3LR and 2M depending on tourney province). So as I said doesn´t happen often...

I don´t remember who was the person in this forum who asked INNO to improve LM units cause they have almost no use, but in general LM is bad
Who doesn´t? All LM ARE useless... just as all HM are useless, too. They are all either cannon fodder or can be used for very rare combinations of enemies, and with a few booster buildings even those uses become obsolete....
 

Pauly7

Magus
Rangers beat Dogs against any combination of LR/M troops.
Wasn't @DunkelSaturn just talking about dogs being better than drone riders?

That would be pointless as Orc Strategists are far better at that and will basically have no losses, no point using Drones.
I could play Devil's Advocate on this. Orc Strats are one of the best units, but they are also impractical to train in large numbers because of the orc cost.
 

Gargon667

Mentor
Wasn't @DunkelSaturn just talking about dogs being better than drone riders?


I could play Devil's Advocate on this. Orc Strats are one of the best units, but they are also impractical to train in large numbers because of the orc cost.
I suppose the post can be read two ways, now that you mention it...

And yes the Strats are harder to come by: pure LR encounters are exactly the reason why you want them though, if you don´t use them there there is no point in getting them at all :)
 

DunkelSaturn

Enchanter
Are you serious about that? Because if you are, we can stop talking right now, this is utter nonsense...
Ok, do as you want.

Rangers beat Dogs against any combination of LR/M troops. They strike first, they have a shooting range AND they have ELRs. Dogs are useless in high province fights, they take heavy losses even against their preferred enemies...
Yes RANGERS are better than dogs, are some of the better units from the game, but as Pauly said, we was talking about drone rider/dogs.

Yes dogs are bad, you´re right, because LM in general is BAD, so bad in higher provinces, but Drone Riders are the worst, cause playing, let´s say, in the 50º province using dogs vs a combo of LR, Mages and LM give you less casualties than using useless drone riders, that always give you tremendous loses (in the past, when I was still using them). Is well know that the best LM unit is the cerberuss, dogs are the only reason many players keep their training grounds. So obvious all this.

That would be pointless as Orc Strategists are far better at that and will basically have no losses, no point using Drones.
Yes, this is what I just wrote in some lines above, that´s why I don´t find any use of drone riders.
The only occasion when Drones are better than Orc Strats is when there is a Mage present. In that case I prefer not to lose Orcs and use Drones instead, losses should be slightly less. But how often do you get a fight with 4 LR and 1 M... (or maybe 3LR and 2M depending on tourney province). So as I said doesn´t happen often...
Yes, drone riders are better than Orc strats when there are those combinations, especially if mages are involves, but the dogs are far superior than drone riders in that kind of combo, cause let me clarify you, the primer objetive of the dogs ( and they specialize in that) are mages, then LR, drone riders die faster than dogs vs mages cause they can reach them fast enough.

Who doesn´t? All LM ARE useless... just as all HM are useless, too. They are all either cannon fodder or can be used for very rare combinations of enemies, and with a few booster buildings even those uses become obsolete....
Yes, it is all my point, I was just remarking that drone riders are the worst of the worst, the worst unit in the worst type of units.
 

CrazyWizard

Shaman
The great thing for Inno about newer players is that they weren't here to see prizes when they were much better, so the event prizes become much more relevant. For me, by this point, there's zero chance that a new event won building is going to replace something that I already have, unless it's purely because I like how it looks so much. That's pretty unusual though.
Better?
Where they? (outside of some exceptions)

The main difference was that many of the old ones where easier to understand, at that time the game itself was also more simple.

In the pas we started with just population, culture or population and culture. they game had nothing else. later
Then came mana so we got event buildings with mana, later the same with seeds and goods.

Now we get more buildings with more than 1 prize, this makes it more difficult to judge.
It's not as straightforward as the old buildings.
This is obvious when we look at the popular lava egg, the same complain u made was made last year. and that building was introduced last year.
This means this is an easy building to judge and understand.

The more straightforward buildings are pretty much all on the same level as 2-3 years ago. it might be a little worst or a tiny bit better but it's kinda the same.
For those who have played for a long time and have already everything and upgraded these buildings with RSS the new buildings are kinda the same. I do not think the buildings became worse, it's just that they no longer hold any value for you like event buildings where when you were in a massive growth fase.

When a new world openen up I noticed how much more fun events are if you are not an end game player. all those buildings are good and fun again. there are no poor and bad events. it's not the events that changed, it's us the end game players who have seen and gotten it all already.

and yes we have seen a hanfull of event buildings sets that where insane, but those outliers are rare and phoenix and brown bear leanrs us those are from all times, it's just waiting for that 1 rare mistake to happen once again to make us exited. but those buildings are quite rare to find. not many players even own them anymore.
 

CrazyWizard

Shaman
That would be pointless as Orc Strategists are far better at that and will basically have no losses, no point using Drones.
The only occasion when Drones are better than Orc Strats is when there is a Mage present. In that case I prefer not to lose Orcs and use Drones instead, losses should be slightly less. But how often do you get a fight with 4 LR and 1 M... (or maybe 3LR and 2M depending on tourney province). So as I said doesn´t happen often...
I always cringe when I see people come up with ork strategist, not because they are bad units, absolutely not, but because you cannot properly train them.
It's not always about choosing the "best" unit. it's also about how much can you aquire them.
I can put in orc strategist with only 2% losses or lets say dogs with 20% losses.
I would in most cases still use dogs, the reason of that is simple. I can aquire loads of dgs and in the same time only a handfull of orc strategist.
It's easier to loose a lot of something that you can get easily than a little of something thats very hard to get.
Compare it to gold and dirt, I do not care if I use a truckload of dirt, but a bit of gold I do mind loosing that one.

Unless they change the production procedure and no longer require orcs all the advise to ork strategist should be either held of or pointed at it's issues. I do own ork strategist and I use them, but only when all other options are no longer an option.
They are my last resort unit due to it's limited aviability.

Who doesn´t? All LM ARE useless... just as all HM are useless, too. They are all either cannon fodder or can be used for very rare combinations of enemies, and with a few booster buildings even those uses become obsolete....
small point, only....when you are in the stage you have unlocked them all and only when you combine them with unit boosters.
I still remember the old days where I used a lot of heavy melee because there bulk just worked (and the optimal unit sorceres did not)

Of course this was in a period where there were no combat buildings and fire phoenixes.
If you remove those factors LM is still a sucker but the combat traingle actually makes sense, only when you can boost your range attack units does is shift to a near range only system.

Beginning players still need all 5 units, but once you get to the advance stage is when you can kinda somewhat drop those units.
 
There were Rangers instants on Beta. And actually sooner than Drone Riders (not sure if Pauly is trolling you :p or if he’d really already forgotten). I’ll try to remember and let you know when/if they show up.;)
Rangers are showing as the Daily Prize on Day 13 according to my prize list, the day after the Burning Egg.
 

Gargon667

Mentor
I always cringe when I see people come up with ork strategist, not because they are bad units, absolutely not, but because you cannot properly train them.
Stop wasting your Orcs on catering and use them to train Strats instead ;) Just skip catering one time and you can train a LOT of strategists ... It´s not that bad to train them. Sure annoying, but not the end of the world... nobody says you have to make them 24/7 on a lvl 31 vic springs, but it´s easy enough to get enough of them for encounters with 5 LR enemies... I keep 500 squads or so around, just by not wasting them (as you suggest) and training them when I don´t train dogs or dryads. It´s not an issue at all.

Unless they change the production procedure and no longer require orcs all the advise to ork strategist should be either held of or pointed at it's issues.
Has been done more than once in this thread alone...

Beginning players still need all 5 units, but once you get to the advance stage is when you can kinda somewhat drop those units.
agreed, but we are not talking about beginners here, it´s just @DunkelSaturn and me being nit-picky about which unit is the most useless one and when or not to use it at all lol...
 

Gargon667

Mentor
Yes dogs are bad, you´re right, because LM in general is BAD, so bad in higher provinces, but Drone Riders are the worst, cause playing, let´s say, in the 50º province using dogs vs a combo of LR, Mages and LM give you less casualties than using useless drone riders, that always give you tremendous loses (in the past, when I was still using them). Is well know that the best LM unit is the cerberuss, dogs are the only reason many players keep their training grounds. So obvious all this.
So you honestly believe dogs will do better than Drones against 4 LR and 1 M? Because I think those LR are going to poke a lot of holes into your dogs before they even get started ;)

The rest I am in total agreement with you ;)