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Rise of the Phoenix Cult

Skelve

Bard
OK, that does make sense, but there seem to be ambiguities here.

You know, all in all it would be better for you to just not start this thread until the day the event starts, then all the chatter is kept in the Beta spoilers section and no confusion.
I think this the most realistic solution given the various opinions on this matter.
 

SoggyShorts

Necromancer
If @SoggyShorts wishes to place this Link into the BETA Thread, and in turn post the link to the BETA Thread here, that is perfectly fine :)
When I read this I must say it sounds insane to me.
"I can't give you this piece of paper, but I can put it down and you can pick it up"
Imo it makes MUCH more sense to make Jack, myself, Gems, and anyone else sharing advanced information use the provided spoiler feature and if you feel the need for more a simple disclaimer too
Jack: Note: The Beta version is not always exactly the same as the one that goes to the Live Worlds, so the information in our Note may not be entirely accurate, though we try to update it to reflect changes.
Quest #1 Remove ineffective restrictions on when people can post.
@CrazyWizard only if the event is on. Before its start we asked not to put the quest list up. This is because it might vary from the Beta server.
I almost hesitate to ask, but you do realize that this makes no sense since the spoilers that we post will still contain that data on Monday, right?
Lemme explain:
If your reasoning is that we shouldn't post a quest list until the event starts because the quests might change from Beta to Live, well that seems reasonable at a glance, but if you think about it,
What happens if the developers change quest #65?
  • If Jack posts his list today, quest #65 will be wrong.
  • If Jack posts his list on Monday #65 will be...wrong.
So how can it matter at all when the list is posted if it contains any advance data that can't be confirmed until many weeks from now?
Only an absolute ban on the sharing of Beta data would accomplish what you want, and even that would fail simply because no other forum places restrictions other than asking players to use the spoiler tag for its intended purpose.
 

Pauly7

Magus
1 of the 2 is interesting for an FA as it makes some easier bracelets. but outside that which was introduced recently I do not find them better or worse then the coldfire or ashen phoenix. there niche buildings.
Both of them are good for bracelet production.

In general terms, both of them also give large amounts of coins, which is good for negotiators. Storm gives large amounts of supplies, which is good for the same reason. Aureate provides a big amount of T1 as part of its regular production.

Ashen gives a handful of mana, which is only really interesting to people in chapters 9-11 and a very nominal amount of T1. Its feeding effect, as discussed, is useless... I'm not certain we're looking at the same building.
 

Timneh

Artisan
If @SoggyShorts wishes to place this Link into the BETA Thread, and in turn post the link to the BETA Thread here, that is perfectly fine
That has got to be the dumbest thing i have read in a very long time. Where is the difference in the information ? The information people will see is going to be exactly the same but they will need to make an extra click to see it, that is the only difference.
The person that thought that idea up gets my vote for dumbass of the century.
 

BladeCrash

Novice
Could be. Those three birds are all better than anything Inno gives out now, or is likely to again. So if they're not all finished and there's a possibility of one more artefact, then that's something to think about. Probably quite unlikely that those 50 extra essences makes that difference for all that many people though.
those 50 costed me 2nd stonehedge which now i can't build, although I'll have probably all 9 upgrades till spire ends. :D
I could've spend diamonds,but at the time, i thought ofc it won't matter that 2nd building.

Do you find those older buildings useful, and can you get all upgrades, that's now other story. :)

other than that, my inventory grows exponentially.
 

Pauly7

Magus
Do you find those older buildings useful, and can you get all upgrades, that's now other story. :)
You can upgrade them to current chapter with RR spells, as with anything, but as to their usefulness, that's often down to personal preference. The majority of evolving buildings have their place with decent enough pay-outs, but many are not that exciting and so they only become useful when you want a little of everything and something that doesn't specialise. There's also the problem that they can't be teleported so people need to think more carefully as to whether they are worth building.
 

BladeCrash

Novice
Was talking about usefulness of Ashen Phoenix and it's feeding effect, I'll build it but doubt that I'll use that feeding effect.

That my comment was going, that some1 doesn't go off topic commenting old buildings and play styles :) (not related to this phoenix event)
I only look building benefits that don't grow with ages, that's its benefit for me, and fully aware of RR spell benefits.
 

CrazyWizard

Shaman
Both of them are good for bracelet production.

In general terms, both of them also give large amounts of coins, which is good for negotiators. Storm gives large amounts of supplies, which is good for the same reason. Aureate provides a big amount of T1 as part of its regular production.

Ashen gives a handful of mana, which is only really interesting to people in chapters 9-11 and a very nominal amount of T1. Its feeding effect, as discussed, is useless... I'm not certain we're looking at the same building.
Yes for people like us the feeding effect is useless, the mana production is useless.
But thats not the case for 90% of the other players.

They are not that rational about it.
They do not have tournament scores of 7000-12000. and because of that 5000 spells and a high level abbey, they love mana on items.
They are not in a gold spire fellowship and look at the numbers and think. ok if I need those 100-150 extra event currency, thats 5 minutes spire worth fo effort, the blue moon I need that I just spend the free diamonds and save myself the space.

They think free event currency, NICE! 1 petfood for 1 whole event? AWESOME!

This is a great pet for the masses, and a useless one for us. just because it's useless for us doesnt mean it's bad.
To be frank the storm and aureate phoenix powers are just as useless to me. I am not gonna waste petfood for a 3 hour production boost on my factories.

I mean
1616328579395.png

So to me you can throw storm, aureate, coldfire and ashen phoenix on the same garbage pile.
 

Pauly7

Magus
But thats not the case for 90% of the other players.

They are not that rational about it.
People being irrational doesn't turn a building good.

OK, I guess you're right and that there are some late game players that haven't tapped into the Dragon Abbey and are still looking for a source of mana. Either way, Storm Phoenix provides more mana.

The Ashen feeding effect is only useful for irrational people, as you say, so this doesn't make it good.

To be frank the storm and aureate phoenix powers are just as useless to me. I am not gonna waste petfood for a 3 hour production boost on my factories.
That's understandable and for you they are no good, but that doesn't bring the Ashen up onto a par with them, just because all 3 are no good to you. I too have lots of standard goods. Not your kind of numbers, but most of them up above 5 million. However, as you say, most people aren't like us so those standard goods are probably valuable to the majority.

You also have to factor in the FA crowd. I wouldn't usually waste a pet food on Storm or Aureate in a normal situation, but I'll sink about 20 of them into them in an FA week. Not only that, but Storm Phoenix's feeding effect benefits sentient goods too, so that will often be good for almost everyone, except for people in early chapters and people who are refusing to advance in research.

Just as an aside - You are a spire caterer I think. Both Aureate and Storm are excellent for that in terms of coins. Storm even better because it gives lots of supplies. You are no doubt well catered for in coins and supplies, but extra buildings like these would save you needlessly upgrading your Lighthouse.
 

CrazyWizard

Shaman
People being irrational doesn't turn a building good.

OK, I guess you're right and that there are some late game players that haven't tapped into the Dragon Abbey and are still looking for a source of mana. Either way, Storm Phoenix provides more mana.

The Ashen feeding effect is only useful for irrational people, as you say, so this doesn't make it good.


That's understandable and for you they are no good, but that doesn't bring the Ashen up onto a par with them, just because all 3 are no good to you. I too have lots of standard goods. Not your kind of numbers, but most of them up above 5 million. However, as you say, most people aren't like us so those standard goods are probably valuable to the majority.

You also have to factor in the FA crowd. I wouldn't usually waste a pet food on Storm or Aureate in a normal situation, but I'll sink about 20 of them into them in an FA week. Not only that, but Storm Phoenix's feeding effect benefits sentient goods too, so that will often be good for almost everyone, except for people in early chapters and people who are refusing to advance in research.

Just as an aside - You are a spire caterer I think. Both Aureate and Storm are excellent for that in terms of coins. Storm even better because it gives lots of supplies. You are no doubt well catered for in coins and supplies, but extra buildings like these would save you needlessly upgrading your Lighthouse.
If storm and aureates 2 day coin reward has to pull me trough the spire then I am in serious trouble.
Loads of EE and if needed a round of neighbourly help do the just just fine. in most cases the activation round once per week is enough (the round where you help all players to keep them all active for neighbourly help)

5m coins per 2 days is a whopping 1-2 payments in the spire.

Yeah the new FA has revitalised the usefullness from those 2 birds from completely useless to has a use to a very specific crowd, just like the ashen phoenix has a nice market.
If you are short 100 currency and can't spare the diamonds because your not as active in the spire, that ashen phoenix is not looking that bad either ;)
If this was phoenix event 2019 I would have build and used this phoenix every single event. we had no diamond sources, and getting the main prize complete was sort of a gamble already so those few extra event currency could make the difference. I remember I bought the outpost (was a different building but did the same) just to improve my odds. thats how amazing this bird would have been to me 2 years ago.

Since then we are drowning in diamonds but only those that seek them. I went from ~14 premium expansions (bought when the max prize was 10 euro for an expansion) to 37 atm without spending a single penny.

I am able to gather massive amounts of diamonds so today I would not build a building that only gives 130-150 event currency for free, it's a waste of space to me, If i need that 100 currency now I just spend some of my free diamonds instead.
I am betting that that bird that was amazing to me 2 years ago is going to be amazing to many players that are in that stage right now.
Those than can pick up random currency less often and are just making of just not making it every event to a full building.

Many other people are not in the same situation there value on diamonds is totally different.
I am willing to bet you are going to see many many many of these ashen birds in cities. most players do less than 2000 tournament points, they do not want/need a fire bird and this bird will make them more exited than 10 firebirds combined.

You can have a dragon abbey as a late player but without the investment in the tournaments to power it on, it's a lot less usefull.
Just look at your weekly ranking score how many players in the top 100 get more than 5400 points.
You'll be shocked how little that is. 5400 points is 20 provinces so only 40 spells a week.

Try to pay of your 1m+ mana upgrades with that and you see the abbey is a nice addition but cannot be the sole source of mana for most players.
Of course we easily double that, and most likely we also have higher level abbeys I havent had a mana building in my city since the introduction of the abbey years ago.
 

Pauly7

Magus
If storm and aureates 2 day coin reward has to pull me trough the spire then I am in serious trouble.
Loads of EE and if needed a round of neighbourly help do the just just fine. in most cases the activation round once per week is enough (the round where you help all players to keep them all active for neighbourly help)

5m coins per 2 days is a whopping 1-2 payments in the spire.
It's not about those coins pulling you through. It's about those coins being part of what adds up to the amount you need to pull you through, naturally. You need more coins and supplies so you level up your Lighthouse of Good Neighbourhood. That hurts your tournament progress. With more sources of coins and supplies you would need that wonder less.
I am able to gather massive amounts of diamonds so today I would not build a building that only gives 130-150 event currency for free, it's a waste of space to me, If i need that 100 currency now I just spend some of my free diamonds instead.
I am betting that that bird that was amazing to me 2 years ago is going to be amazing to many players that are in that stage right now.
Those than can pick up random currency less often and are just making of just not making it every event to a full building.
Firstly it's more like 50 event currency and I won't believe that would have excited you 2 years ago. Back then many people, if not the majority, were considering that the outpost was not worth it - That outpost was probably worth 6 times the event currency that the Ashen Phoenix is. Yes, it costed a premium, but most people would not have worried too much about that if the amount was exciting. 600 currency for one event was not exciting... and that sat on 4 squares.
Try to pay of your 1m+ mana upgrades with that and you see the abbey is a nice addition but cannot be the sole source of mana for most players.
Of course we easily double that, and most likely we also have higher level abbeys I havent had a mana building in my city since the introduction of the abbey years ago.
You seem to gloss over the point I made that the Storm Phoenix gives more mana than the Ashen Phoenix, so any point about the usefulness of mana is moot. Also the point that many ordinary players may be just, or more, interested in a big chunk of T1 goods, even if it doesn't pique the interest of you and I.
 

CrazyWizard

Shaman
Firstly it's more like 50 event currency and I won't believe that would have excited you 2 years ago. Back then many people, if not the majority, were considering that the outpost was not worth it - That outpost was probably worth 6 times the event currency that the Ashen Phoenix is. Yes, it costed a premium, but most people would not have worried too much about that if the amount was exciting. 600 currency for one event was not exciting... and that sat on 4 squares.
I think karvest said 135 if you could activate it before the event started which is not possible.

It's 2% rounded up.
So if the quest gives l 50 or less currency it's +1 and when the quest gives more than 50 currency it's 2 per quest.

With 75 quests that we have seen past few events and it start at like 40 or so you get a little under 150 event currency.

The outpost was worth it, in fact the first sale was so popular that the next event they double the price (and got the backlash from it)
And yes 135 currency would get me exited because it was difficult enough to get the grand prizes.
Quite a few times I bought the last day offer (not currency but flags or whatever it was called then) to get a grand prize I really wanted.

The harvest set I worked really hard for and every currency counted, I do not think I missed a single drop currency that even because I wanted it, similar with fire phoenix. I did not want to take the risk to ending up with a level 9 instead of 10.
When every point counts you take every bit you can get.

Maybe you did not experience or forgot how difficult events were, and how rare it was to aquire even 50 diamonds from a forum event once in a blue moon. because that was all we got.
We have been spoiled in the past 2 years.
 

DeletedUser9850

Guest
Can anyone tell me what's the special effect of the Ashen Phoenix really is??(It doesn't mean I am gonna place it.):D:D:D
 

Hekata

Shaman
FIY, it seems they have changed a bit the order of the prizes: today's daily is the Lava Egg (it was due much later on IIRC) in case someone is hunting after it and was relying only on the beta info...