Recruiting new members

[cwgiii]

I actually Like the idea of seeing the history of a Fellowship as well. I agree, it could be great info for an interested party to see that data as well, for all of the same reasons. More data is a good thing.

Not everyone is an egomaniac just getting the thrill of a power trip to expel members. I for one really do struggle with those decisions. But I rely heavily on the manually collected data that I take pains to document in order to help. I want my fellowship to thrive and have fun enjoying the game. It is difficult all around, because there are those players that just want immediate gratification, and there are fellowships that want their players to work at the game 24/7. This is true with or without any data being posted. Nothing is going to change that.

 

[DeletedUser3075]

I actually Like the idea of seeing the history of a Fellowship as well. I agree, it could be great info for an interested party to see that data as well, for all of the same reasons. More data is a good thing.

Not everyone is an egomaniac just getting the thrill of a power trip to expel members. I for one really do struggle with those decisions. But I rely heavily on the manually collected data that I take pains to document in order to help. I want my fellowship to thrive and have fun enjoying the game. It is difficult all around, because there are those players that just want immediate gratification, and there are fellowships that want their players to work at the game 24/7. This is true with or without any data being posted. Nothing is going to change that.

Let's imagine you got expelled from a fellowship for not visiting in a few days and there was no warning just random expel (which gives you no time to say sorry and start visiting again to prove yourself).

Then you go to your next FS and there is drama in the chat so you leave.

Then in your next fs everything sweet for 2 weeks then you have a little disagreement with somone over something minor and they say "well your history shows that you jump around from fellowship to fellowship" which creates waves that destroy how everyone views you in that FS. As a result of that you either leave or expelled.

Then in your next application the AM reads your "history" and says "your history say that you were expelled once and left twice so I wish you good luck in finding a fellowship but I'm afraid this isn't the one for you". And then every other fellowship you apply for judges you the same

How would you feel about that? I'm sorry but you wouldn't like it regardless of what you say. I'm all for the system if it also records AM history as well. People in authority also have to be accountable for how they go about their business otherwise all sorts of abuse can potentially take place.

Also this is off topic because it's for a different thread (that you linked here) about seeing the history of applicants and has nothing to do with the struggle fellowships are having with recruiting players, which is what this topic is about.

Anyway back on topic...in my opinion the best ways to help in gaining fellowship members are these...

1) Forum post in the fellowships recruiting section.

2) Send out as many invites as possible (preferably with an accompanying message so your invite feels personal)

3) Fellowship Rank. High ranked fellowships = further tournament progress. More info/best advice on how to play the game. Possible help with zero star trades (this is appealing to some players). Bragging rights

4) The amount of members. More members = more visits, more trades, more active chat

5) An overview that sounds appealing. If its too casual ("we are total chill no rules") or too strict (essay/wall of text lecture overview) then generally people probably wont join. Also not everybody agrees on the same core ideas from both sides. A "total chill" person might still disagree with unfair trades and another "total chill" player might agree with unfair trades. One may vocalize their opinions ins chat, another might not. One thing to remember is you can't please all of the people all of the time.

It's worth noting that gaining members is easier than keeping them in my opinion much like losing weight is easier than keeping it off, so once a player is recruited it's imperative you keep them interested with chat, tool tips, or make them feel part of the group with promotions/encouragement etc. Whats the point of an AM that never speaks, or everyone is still fellow title 2 months later, or has 10 inactive members and doesnt care if the remaining 10 rarely visit? Or what about an AM one that's the opposite of that and warns everyone or expels them for the slightest little thing? It's about striking the right balance in my opinion

@Weirdsister "Good luck with your process, I hope you find the perfect fellows for your team and grow to kick some serious FS beehind"

I'm only an ambassador. All I can do is give input to the AM. If they disagree with everything I say repeatedly, or we fall out I'll just leave. Also nobody is perfect hence why our FS gives people the chance to screw up more than once and can wipe warnings clean if certain behaviour changes for the better consistently. Lastly it's got nothing to do with "kicking FS butt". I couldn't care less if our FS was ranked 4th, 50th, or 450th so long as we have 25 people that visit every day, are constantly active in game helping others with trades, and polite respectful and fun in the chat. Saying hi/goodnight asking how your day was and talking about non elvenar related subjects instead of just "trades up, visits done" then silence for another 16 hours is hardly going to appeal to some people. Would I want to be in a FS that was 1st for example but either silent or dictatorship in style, only half visited(and when they did it was thw wrong type of help?), and constantly bragged about rank? Nope

 

[cwgiii]

@HardcoreGamer Also this is off topic because it's for a different thread (that you linked here) about seeing the history of applicants and has nothing to do with the struggle fellowships are having with recruiting players, which is what this topic is about.


I actually believe my comments are on topic as my original response was confirming my experience with the problem and pointing out relevant content in the Ideas and Suggestions section of the Forum. Simply pointing out that any other person who wishes could post their thoughts about that particular idea there, or could post their own original suggestions to help improve the situation. Discussion is always a good thing and helps others understand differing points of view and may generate new ideas. My inferred tip was welcoming input to the Ideas and Suggestions area.


@HardcoreGamer Then in your next application the AM reads your "history" and says "your history say that you were expelled once and left twice so I wish you good luck in finding a fellowship but I'm afraid this isn't the one for you". And then every other fellowship you apply for judges you the same.


As has been pointed out in many other threads, absolutes like “every other fellowship” rarely materialize in reality. I know I do my best to give individuals the benefit of most doubt. I would not want to join a fellowship that painted such broad strokes. Again, each fellowship has its own dynamic and each AW has their own style. Joining a fellowship always takes some getting used to.


Any tool can be miss used. But not all people would miss use it.

 

[DeletedUser1453]

I'm only an ambassador. All I can do is give input to the AM. If they disagree with everything I say repeatedly, or we fall out I'll just leave. Also nobody is perfect hence why our FS gives people the chance to screw up more than once and can wipe warnings clean if certain behaviour changes for the better consistently. Lastly it's got nothing to do with "kicking FS butt". I couldn't care less if our FS was ranked 4th, 50th, or 450th so long as we have 25 people that visit every day, are constantly active in game helping others with trades, and polite respectful and fun in the chat. Saying hi/goodnight asking how your day was and talking about non elvenar related subjects instead of just "trades up, visits done" then silence for another 16 hours is hardly going to appeal to some people. Would I want to be in a FS that was 1st for example but either silent or dictatorship in style, only half visited(and when they did it was thw wrong type of help?), and constantly bragged about rank? Nope

You are so full of it.... you know damn well you are your own AM.

 

[DeletedUser3075]

@HardcoreGamer Also this is off topic because it's for a different thread (that you linked here) about seeing the history of applicants and has nothing to do with the struggle fellowships are having with recruiting players, which is what this topic is about.


I actually believe my comments are on topic as my original response was confirming my experience with the problem and pointing out relevant content in the Ideas and Suggestions section of the Forum. Simply pointing out that any other person who wishes could post their thoughts about that particular idea there, or could post their own original suggestions to help improve the situation. Discussion is always a good thing and helps others understand differing points of view and may generate new ideas. My inferred tip was welcoming input to the Ideas and Suggestions area.


@HardcoreGamer Then in your next application the AM reads your "history" and says "your history say that you were expelled once and left twice so I wish you good luck in finding a fellowship but I'm afraid this isn't the one for you". And then every other fellowship you apply for judges you the same.


As has been pointed out in many other threads, absolutes like “every other fellowship” rarely materialize in reality. I know I do my best to give individuals the benefit of most doubt. I would not want to join a fellowship that painted such broad strokes. Again, each fellowship has its own dynamic and each AW has their own style. Joining a fellowship always takes some getting used to.


Any tool can be miss used. But not all people would miss use it.

I agree with most of what you said and some good ideas for filters. I just thought it was for a different topic (the one you linked), and would prefer to see it with AM history too.

Anyway what do you think of the 5 suggestions I posted for the original poster?

 

[DeletedUser1829]

In my opinion the best ways to help in gaining fellowship members are these...

1) Forum post in the fellowships recruiting section.

2) Send out as many invites as possible (preferably with an accompanying message so your invite feels personal)

3) Fellowship Rank. High ranked fellowships = further tournament progress. More info/best advice on how to play the game. Possible help with zero star trades (this is appealing to some players). Bragging rights

4) The amount of members. More members = more visits, more trades, more active chat

5) An overview that sounds appealing. If its too casual ("we are total chill no rules") or too strict (essay/wall of text lecture overview) then generally people probably wont join. Also not everybody agrees on the same core ideas from both sides. A "total chill" person might still disagree with unfair trades and another "total chill" player might agree with unfair trades. One may vocalize their opinions ins chat, another might not. One thing to remember is you can't please all of the people all of the time.

It's worth noting that gaining members is easier than keeping them in my opinion much like losing weight is easier than keeping it off, so once a player is recruited it's imperative you keep them interested with chat, tool tips, or make them feel part of the group with promotions/encouragement etc. Whats the point of an AM that never speaks, or everyone is still fellow title 2 months later, or has 10 inactive members and doesnt care if the remaining 10 rarely visit? Or what about an AM one that's the opposite of that and warns everyone or expels them for the slightest little thing? It's about striking the right balance in my opinion

Certain things in the list can also be deterrents/backfire in your recruiting so you have to be careful. For example:
1. Rank - I know of people who won't apply for fellowships over a certain rank and have seen forum advice as such. Generally it is better to have some rank rather than none but it isn't a guaranteed.

2. Help with 0 star trades - personally not something I would advertise as I have seen players abuse this and join to gain the trades then move on. Even if you don't advertise it is a risk but much less likely.

In my experience it is easier to retain members rather than recruit them. There are no set rules in recruiting just a bunch of things which do improve your chances. I think being as clear as possible about your fellowship and its style help a lot with both recruitment and retention. Players can be as discerning as fellowships when being recruited and an experienced player tends to know what they want in a fellowship to be good fit.

 

[DeletedUser3075]

Certain things in the list can also be deterrents/backfire in your recruiting so you have to be careful. For example:
1. Rank - I know of people who won't apply for fellowships over a certain rank and have seen forum advice as such. Generally it is better to have some rank rather than none but it isn't a guaranteed.

Oh do you mean some people are put off by high ranking fellowships? Yes I can imagine why. Those players probably prefer more casual fellowships which is fine.

2. Help with 0 star trades - personally not something I would advertise as I have seen players abuse this and join to gain the trades then move on. Even if you don't advertise it is a risk but much less likely.

Yea abuse of this generosity is always a problem but I think in general this is an appealing thing for most new players and most of them would be gracious?

There are no set rules in recruiting just a bunch of things which do improve your chances. I think being as clear as possible about your fellowship and its style help a lot with both recruitment and retention.

Exactly thats why I think a fellowship that is pro-active with invites is a good thing because it improves chances. I mean if an Arch mage has the time to send out 100 invites with messages and 20 of them reply back and want to join this is a good thing imo as oppose to anotehr inviting 1 player every other day. I also agree about fellowships being clear about their rules. If the overview says nothing about neighbourly help and then after 3 days the AM is warning you for your visiting rate I don't think that's necessarily the players fault. Maybe that player joined because they dont get to play a lot or cant commit to visiting every day and joined because there were no rules about it in their overview

 

[cwgiii]

I agree with HardcoreGamer's 5 tips as well as Mykan's caveats.

 

[DeletedUser1265]

I agree with HardcoreGamer's 5 tips as well as Mykan's caveats.

Yip, it is good to have a mixed bag of tricks, as I have also found that recruiting differs from server to server and world to world.

 

[cwgiii]

Setting expectations (on all sides) is always important to make sure there is a good match.

My problem has been that I spend an inordinate amount of time searching for those members that I wish to invite. And I only get a handful of responses (with only one offs that actually join). I don't go down the list and invite folks wholesale (maybe I should). I go down the list looking for people who are not in a Fellowship, who have not already told me they are not interested (due to any number of reasons), looking for boosted items that would compliment our current group, looking for folks at or near our current average level in the game, etc. This has literally taken a week or more at times. The effort is overwhelming.

 

[DeletedUser3075]

Setting expectations (on all sides) is always important to make sure there is a good match.

My problem has been that I spend an inordinate amount of time searching for those members that I wish to invite. And I only get a handful of responses (with only one offs that actually join). I don't go down the list and invite folks wholesale (maybe I should). I go down the list looking for people who are not in a Fellowship, who have not already told me they are not interested (due to any number of reasons), looking for boosted items that would compliment our current group, looking for folks at or near our current average level in the game, etc. This has literally taken a week or more at times. The effort is overwhelming.

I didnt even know you could invite people already in a fellowship? I do the same as you though I just invite the names of people not in a fellowship. I didnt check their boosts though I thought the AM would know who was worth accepting. I would probably go insane if I had to click through 100 pages of players, a message on each one, and a check for their boosts though. Kudos to an AM that has the patience for that. If I ever got made an AM I don't think I could do it on that scale. I think that it's probably just an extreme version of what most AMs would be doing anyway.

 

[DeletedUser1265]

didnt even know you could invite people already in a fellowship?

As far as I recall they would have to leave the FS first, so theoretically you can't. However, you can message them to "entice" them.

 

[DeletedUser1829]

Oh do you mean some people are put off by high ranking fellowships? Yes I can imagine why. Those players probably prefer more casual fellowships which is fine.

Sometimes it isn't about more casual but a perception that the top fellowships are hardcore or more picky therefore harder to get into. While there are certainly some that are this way (which attracts similar players) there are a number which are not..

I didnt check their boosts though I thought the AM would know who was worth accepting.

Once you send an invite there is no acceptance by the AM, the person can just accept the invite and is automatically a member.

As far as I recall they would have to leave the FS first, so theoretically you can't. However, you can message them to "entice" them.

That is correct. They need to not be in a fellowship and you need space in your fellowship to send an invite.

Another tip which is more fellowship to fellowship related. No poaching members . Been friendly to someone and they move fellowships as a result is not poaching but I have seen people intentionally try to entice members from other active fellowships.

 

[DeletedUser3090]

I come from a WoW background and would immediately dismiss invites with no message or a message that doesn't seem personal.
If I got multiple messages from the same person asking me to join it would go straight to the spam/report bin.
I do agree with much of @HardcoreGamer posts but messages sent to randoms must at least "appear" personal ie. include some individual detail even if it's just the players name
eg. Hi twelven, I've noticed you are an active player but don't have a fellowship.....

Just my take from a long MMO background.

 

[cwgiii]

I come from a WoW background and would immediately dismiss invites with no message or a message that doesn't seem personal.

I guess I can understand this if I was getting a random Invite every day from the same fellowship (separate from a message asking if I was interested in joining). But honestly, this sounds a bit elitist to me. The purpose of the Invite function is just that. Someone in the fellowship saw something that attracted them to you as a player and they reached out by pushing the button to "Invite" you. Remeber that multiple people can be recruiting out of any particular fellowship at the same time (Ambassadors). I see nothing wrong with that, especially since there is (or was) a limit to the number of invites that an individual could have open at any given time. This may have changed because I personally go a different route and send out messages to people that I am interested in before pushing the "invite" button. If they respond, most actually request an invite before I can go in and push the button myself. So, I rarely have more than 1 or 2 open invites outstanding.

If players have never gone through the process to recruit new members, I Highly recommend (via your own fellowship or as an Ambassador in your existing fellowship). It is a definite eye opener. A true lesson in patience and OCD control. The system is very unfriendly in searching for new members. The only way that I can see is to go through the Rankings list, open each city then open that individuals map to determine their boosted goods, take a look around and decide if they are a good fit for asking, then I send that note out, and wait. I do this because I try to keep track of whom I have invited, looking for particular boosted good combinations to help balance out my fellowship, and looking for folks that are around my fellowships advancement level. There is currently no way to filter out people that are not interested in joining a fellowship (other than keeping a note or spreadsheet, in my case for both of these criteria). People receiving an invite really should think about that effort before simply dismissing it as "spam". This process can literally take days/weeks/months to build and replenish the ranks.

If I got multiple messages from the same person asking me to join it would go straight to the spam/report bin.

First: How do you actually send such invites to the spam/report bin? I seriously don't see that functionality in Elvenar.

Second: If I actually wrote an individualized (name included) note for each person that I was interested in recruiting, I would never get to play the game. (see the level of effort described above). My not is a friendly introduction to our fellowship concisely describing our "rules" of engagement and asking for their review for further discussion.

Maybe the lack of user friendliness of recruiting is intentional to somehow prevent the perceived "spamming". But, in the current state, it actually encourages more "spamming". Don't necessarily blame the sender. It would be AWESOME if each person could opt out of fellowships if they never intend to join, or are on a break for a while. A simple checkbox to remove them from the potential pool would help so much. Then having filters (by boosted goods, ranking level,built AWs, whatever else) would help Fellowships get to their targets much quicker and get them out of the hunt more effectively. This would reduce frustration on both sides of that Invite. These potential improvements have all been posted in Ideas and Suggestions via various threads.

But what ever happens, as a receiver of an invitation, think about the person on the other end. My mom taught me to RSVP ALL invitations, even if to say "no thanks, and please remove me from future invitations" I, for one, will do my best to comply. And be specific: "Not at this time" is different from "I play alone". Don't get mad if you don't reply, or reply with the former and still get invitations. As an Arch Mage, I have seen folks change their minds all the time about joining or leaving a fellowship for a variety of reasons.

Just my thoughts.

 

[DeletedUser]

I'm a Mage who does the recruitment for our FS, we have no ambassadors, and as cwgiii says its the most time consuming pointless exercise ever - if you go through the aspirants list of those who have applied there is no easy way to check their level other than to visit their city, see they're too small, go back to my city, then the FS button, then the Aspirant tab and then use the red cross to take them off the list.

We direct invite, that's to say we mail people first, and if we have one vacancy then its one at a time until the vacancy is filled.

If I'm mailed direct and we are either full or the person isn't right for us then I'll reply and tell them.

I don't use spreadsheets etc as I want playing time myself, otherwise its far too easy to become bogged down in admin/

Doing recruitment in a responsible way is a time consuming thankless task.

 

[Cregganroe]

It's a game... You are suppose to play a game for fun not chock full of rules and regulations.... Rl is for rules and regulations not something that is suppose to be enjoyable and relaxing not worrying all the time... Leave your stresses, strains and hob nailed boots at the door and sit down and relax.... You know chill and you might find you enjoyed yourself.... You are even allowed to have a giggle in chat it actually does you good

 

[cwgiii]

Feelin' your pain Lisica.

Tryin' Cregganroe

 

[DeletedUser3090]

I guess I can understand this if I was getting a random Invite every day from the same fellowship (separate from a message asking if I was interested in joining). But honestly, this sounds a bit elitist to me. ....

I certainly didn't mean this in an elitist way at all. I'm part of a quite relaxed casual fellowship no elitist jerks allowed
I personally dislike being bombarded with generic requests that's all. If someone messaged me saying hey I noticed you're not in a fellowship etc. rather than" XYZ fellowship is looking for more members" I'd be far more likely to check it out.

First: How do you actually send such invites to the spam/report bin? I seriously don't see that functionality in Elvenar.

Second: If I actually wrote an individualized (name included) note for each person that I was interested in recruiting, I would never get to play the game. (see the level of effort described above). My not is a friendly introduction to our fellowship concisely describing our "rules" of engagement and asking for their review for further discussion.

Just my thoughts.

Well firstly you are right, my spam/report bin was delete message or ignore invite.

And secondly I understand how time consuming sending personalized messages is, but even if you use a template message and just add the name. I feel you may have to send less messages to get a recruit.
Like you said - Just my thoughts, and if you've tried it before to no avail I gladly bow to your experience.

PS I'm trying to recruit a couple of new members atm. I'm using a template and adding the player name to it, but only sending a few messages per day to any player that looks active and not in a fellowship - I guess I'll see how hard it is to entice them.

 

[DeletedUser664]

In my experience, a good fellowship is a team of active fellows. You help each other, you organize, you plan. A good AM is active, and enables the fellowship to do that. Enable the team to collaborate, then take a step back. Nobody wants a dictator.