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Discussion Rebalancing of select (old) event buildings

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Muf-Muf, May 14, 2018.

  1. Muf-Muf

    Muf-Muf Elvenar Team

    May 27, 2015
    Dear Humans and Elves,

    Please use this thread to discuss the upcoming changes to our old event buildings. We'll be here to answer your questions regarding these changes.

    For details, please see this announcement.

    Kind regards,
    Your Elvenar Team
  2. cwgiii

    cwgiii Illusionist

    Nov 19, 2016
    Is there a timeline available for these impacts to our cities?
  3. Muf-Muf

    Muf-Muf Elvenar Team

    May 27, 2015
    The update to 1.54 will most likely take place sometime tomorrow on our EN worlds. A separate announcement for that will follow, most likely tomorrow as well. :)
  4. Killiak

    Killiak Shaman

    Aug 4, 2016

    So basically Inno didn't manage to release the change to the blueprints together with this update, and Inno is going to hard-drop a lot of players population even AFTER y'all got so much negative feedback for it on Beta. What's the point of a test server if you are just going to repeat the mistakes you make?

    Honestly, I keep saying to communicate these big changes further in advance. You can't just announce something like this, drop it a day later, and expect your CUSTOMERS to keep liking you. I really don't know what books on business your company has been reading, but I suggest you get a refund for them.

    It seems there were zero lessons learned from the Lighthouse/Bell Spire debacle. You had better announce this REAL QUICK in the game itself and give people more time to adjust for it.

    Shitstorm is coming. (and richly deserved too)
    Last edited: May 14, 2018
  5. Lisica

    Lisica Guest

    I just don't understand, this went out on beta, there was a furious outcry on it and yet its STILL coming to the live servers... Inno just keeps on hitting and hitting and hitting! What happened to customer service?
  6. LadyHavva

    LadyHavva Illusionist

    Mar 8, 2018
    Although I'm not personally affected being a new player, I think this is a very bad thing to do. You justify this by saying that the balance is needed because the newer players don't have these buildings. Well they (and I am one of them) didn't have these buildings for months. Another couple of weeks more until the spell can be introduced won't kill us. However introducing these changes now will "kill" the old players. You are incapacitating them for weeks.
  7. Vindaria

    Vindaria Alchemist

    Aug 28, 2017
    Saying it's for balance, because newer players don't have these buildings is a rather bold lie. They are still given out in events- some of the negatively affected buildings are rewards in the current Fellowship Adventure.

    It was announced a while back that older event buildings can be upgraded in future- lowering their value first to allow people to 'upgrade' them to old standard is not a reward, but pure punishment. Those spells are only available for strong fellowships that manage to unlock all 10 chests, which means that everyone else will loose out for weeks and maybe even months. And a lot of these players will be hit by surprise, because most aren't aware that the 'adjustments' will affect building recently won or given as reward in the current Adventure.

    They should drop the idea of adjustment and keep giving out these buildings like they currently do or they will keep loosing a lot of older players and winning a lot of bad feedback and reputation.

    I'm a player that spent money on this game and intended to keep spending money during events, advertising this game to friends and was saying that spending money on this game is worth it, because you'll keep what you get for it without it loosing value- especially with the option to either replace them when winning them at a higher chapter or upgrading them later... If the changes will come, I've been proven wrong and definitely not going to spend anymore money on this game. What's more, I'm already thinking to leave this game completely. :(
    Rinkidink, Lisica and shadowblack like this.
  8. shadowblack

    shadowblack Necromancer

    Feb 14, 2016
    One thing I want to say:
    @Muf-Muf The claim I quoted above makes no sense. You had WEEKS to prepare and provide detailed information about the changes to the buildings. So you have no excuse for not providing said information. Especially since said info is already available on a fan-made site:

    So a fan-made site can provide this info shortly after the changes hit Beta, but you guys can't do the same even after weeks have passed? Sorry, but I don't buy that. Seems to me like you're just making excuses for someone's laziness. No offense.
    GreatElfer, Rinkidink, Arjavh and 5 others like this.
  9. Tiriake

    Tiriake Soothsayer

    Jun 22, 2016
    There is no reason for this change. None. It's yet another proof that the devs don't know what they are doing. Going to change something devs made many months ago and expect us to be happy. I don't understand why a company is so set on driving players away. Taking every bit of joy out of the game. I just don't understand why you need to punish us so.
  10. Trufsonia

    Trufsonia Enchanter

    Jun 6, 2017
    I predict you're gonna lose some players soon
    EdwardTrunk, GreatElfer and Rinkidink like this.
  11. Zzzyk

    Zzzyk Adventurer

    Nov 23, 2015
    This is outrageous and utterly stupid. I don't play Beta but judging the above comments, I am not surprised at all that there was huge backlash AGAINST rebalancing buildings.
    I'm one of those who rely heavily on population from event buildings. And quite frankly, the population boost was THE ONLY incentive to participate in the events. In the end, all other bonus from event buildings was minimal to the point that I didn't bother in participating in many events from the start.

    I'll have to see how much population I will lose in the end. To make space for Elementals, I've removed a majority of my residences, which I planned to rebuild. It turns out I might not have the space to fully recover from what is about to happen to population event buildings.

    Inno seems to prioritise acquiring new customers over keeping the ones that have been spending their money over years and years.
    Well, guess what: business rules haven't changed and acquiring new customers is STILL more expensive than retaining old ones.

    Finally, lessons learned from Bell Spire debacle? None. Or forgotten to write down? Or written down but lost the note somewhere? Well, let me remind you: immediately after the "rebalancing" changes were made, I removed the building.

    Good luck - there's a low likelihood that this "rebalancing" will benefit new players but high likelihood that you'll lose a majority of loyal players.

    Rebalancing my ass.
  12. cwgiii

    cwgiii Illusionist

    Nov 19, 2016
    So using ElvenArchitect as a source for figures on inpact to my city, I have calculated that I will loose 2220 population and 8124 culture. I have begun upgrading structures to compensate, but there is no way this will be complete within 24 hours. what happens to my city when I go negative on required population and culture? Is there going to be a grace period to help with recovery?
  13. cwgiii

    cwgiii Illusionist

    Nov 19, 2016
    Or, will my city simply shutdown, in the middle of not 1, but 2 events (FA and the new mobile event).

    I really must raise my voice with others pointing out the lack of planning, preparation or communication for such a drastic change to the non-beta servers.
  14. Zzzyk

    Zzzyk Adventurer

    Nov 23, 2015
    Everything will still operate. You just can't build any buildings that require population.
  15. Tiriake

    Tiriake Soothsayer

    Jun 22, 2016
    I expect that my city will be in a vey bad place when I log on. So going from balanced city to completely unbalanced with one update. That's crazy... Before this I have never had minus population :(

    Also they have done similiar things more than once. Before crystal lighthouse debacle. The biggest was battle upgrade, which stranded players for months in the world map and we were told that we had to see the big picture, that it will become worth it. yet it hasn't to this point. To do something that drastic you have to have something mindblowingly good coming, yet it almost never is with inno.
  16. cwgiii

    cwgiii Illusionist

    Nov 19, 2016
    Great, so I have no ability to complete the mobile event, which requires upgrades.

    Oh, that is unless I break out my wallet to buy diamonds to accelerate the massive modifications that will be necessary to recover.


    Many of us go out of our way to keep our cities "balanced" only to be subject to these impossible-to-deal-with, last minute revisions. How many times can the rug be pulled out from under us.

    I usually pride myself on being a positive person, but this is simply ridiculous. No silver lining here.
  17. Muf-Muf

    Muf-Muf Elvenar Team

    May 27, 2015
    Thanks for sharing your thoughts, everyone.

    I will need to correct myself on this. As it stands, the update on EN will not take place today, but on Wednesday instead.

    Beta has two main purposes:
    1. testing technical aspects of new updates, and
    2. gathering early feedback on changes.
    That, however, does not mean that we will always have to follow the opinion on the Beta forums. In some cases, like the changes to these buildings' values, we have to pursue the changes, regardless of negative feedback we received on Beta. We did re-assess the need for the changes, though, but (unfortunately) came to the conclusion that we have to rebalance these buildings, so that we can ensure future features of Elvenar work as intended. In this case: the possibility to upgrade all event buildings. If we wouldn't have absolutely had to, we wouldn't have made these changes, because we knew that the feedback to it would be bad, and understandably so.

    Unfortunately, to prepare for these changes, we needed to rebalance now already. If we could've waited longer and rebalance closer to the release of the upcoming Royal Restoration spell, or ideally even together with it, we would have.

    As stated in the announcement, we have avoided giving out those buildings. But it is true that in recent events some of them have been reused. We are evaluating our possibilities in regards to that.

    The alternative was not allowing to upgrade these specific buildings at all. Since that would be worse (also because that would have meant we would never be able to give out these buildings ever again), we decided to rebalance the existing buildings instead. It was the lesser of two evils.

    If this were true, we wouldn't have made the changes: we do have reasons for them. We have listed them in the announcement. But, as a (very) short version:
    • We want everyone to be able to upgrade all of their event buildings using the upcoming spell that we're developing for that at the moment.
    • To do so, we have to bring the oldest event buildings, which were significantly stronger than current buildings, to a similar level.
    • Not rebalancing these buildings would have a worse effect, namely not being able to upgrade these buildings at all, and making it impossible to ever give them out in any event again.

    If there are any more questions on this topic, we'd of course be happy to answer them. Please post them below, and we'll come back to you as soon as we can.
    Mykan likes this.
  18. Killiak

    Killiak Shaman

    Aug 4, 2016
    I hope that you realize that, at least in my perception (and quite possibly others), Inno almost never seems to follow the opinion of the Beta forum.
    A much heard complaint / grievance on the EN/ US/ Beta forums is that we are not heard, despite your assurances that we are.
    This just strenghtens that feeling and complaint.

    While you yourself indubitably try your best, you are forced to follow the line the company/devs lay out for you. And this makes your words ring hollow.

    LazyTony had hope. I was cynical.
    0 - 1 for me.
    Timneh and GreatElfer like this.
  19. Brienne

    Brienne Necromancer

    Oct 7, 2015
    As I'm going to lose many thousands in population I will sell off my tier 1 steel manufactory and upgrade more residences to ensure I don't have a negative population . I hope that I will still be given enough free spells, in the future, to regain the population that I lose.:rolleyes:
  20. LazyTony

    LazyTony Sorcerer

    Jan 30, 2018
    Yup, I guess my hope was misplaced. I understand that complex code changes can't easily be disentangled from the current code, but this isn't that. Its a database change. Just do it later. I have sympathy for Muf-Muf here, Inno have dropped him in the crap for no good reason.