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Question to the Game Mods/Developers...

CrazyWizard

Shaman
I have read all of this thread now.
There are FOUR pools a day
If you are not missing any you must have a weird sleep pattern.
Why you sleep for more than 12 hours a day?
I would call that a bad sleep pattern.

Lets assume rotation is at 2AM 8AM 2PM 8PM

Now if I login at 7:55 and log out at 8:05 I can see 2 rotation. if I logon at 7:55PM and logout at 8:05 PM I can see another 2 rotations.

So I can sleep from 8:05 PM to 7:55AM and not miss a single rotation. thats plenty of sleep in my book.
If you rotation schedule is currently lacking because of bad timing then spend 50 diamonds once to reset the timer at a time that is good for you.

Once you reset the timer it start counting down 6 hours again, so than that time is your new rotation schedule.
 
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CrazyWizard

Shaman
I have 1 ELR, 8 UUU and 0 MMM. I didn't get any MMM in weeks. I got mostly UUU and 2 ELR in the last 3 weeks. Thankfully I have several DA from Spire but that Random-whatever-it-means it's annoying. I like to use mages but they are kinda crippled since I am an elf and not getting any MMM it's bad.
You can get bad RNG for a while, thats why it's very important to own stock, you need to have "reserve" MMM to survive a drought, when the tables turn and your are drowning in MMM you should use that moment to improve your stock again for bad times (and not use them because you get plenty)

The game to some extend is a resource manager, and part of it is managing the RNG. this risk management of RNG is also what people find the most difficult aspect of the game.
I have seen highs and lows so many times now, and always survived by being very carefull with what I use. my stock of buildings has saved me so many times now trough dry spells.
I always try to use a tiny bit too little and I started with 10 UUU, MMM and LR about 3-4 years ago.
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this is what happens when you take RNG risk management very seriously for several years. RNG has mood swings on the short term, Look at my MMM, I to am currently in a dry spell of those but is very predicable as long as you have a long term vision. do not look to next week but look to next year. where do I want to be a long time from now. UUU am am currently drowning in, but I will see dry spells so I am not using that surpluss now. I am saving it.
If I wait long enough those MMM will rise above 30 again. it just takes time.
 

Stucon

Scholar
Why you sleep for more than 12 hours a day?
I would call that a bad sleep pattern.

Lets assume rotation is at 2AM 8AM 2PM 8PM

Now if I login at 7:55 and log out at 8:05 I can see 2 rotation. if I logon at 7:55PM and logout at 8:05 PM I can see another 2 rotations.

So I can sleep from 8:05 PM to 7:55AM and not miss a single rotation. thats plenty of sleep in my book.
If you rotation schedule is currently lacking because of bad timing then spend 50 diamonds once to reset the timer at a time that is good for you.

Once you reset the timer it start counting down 6 hours again, so than that time is your new rotation schedule.
1 I think you missed the point that this is meant to be humorous.
2 Please don't use a quote that YOU have ALTERED. Even if it's making words bold or underlining, (Naughty!)
 

OldHag

Enchanter
You can get bad RNG for a while, thats why it's very important to own stock, you need to have "reserve" MMM to survive a drought, when the tables turn and your are drowning in MMM you should use that moment to improve your stock again for bad times (and not use them because you get plenty)

The game to some extend is a resource manager, and part of it is managing the RNG. this risk management of RNG is also what people find the most difficult aspect of the game.
I have seen highs and lows so many times now, and always survived by being very carefull with what I use. my stock of buildings has saved me so many times now trough dry spells.
I always try to use a tiny bit too little and I started with 10 UUU, MMM and LR about 3-4 years ago.
View attachment 5733View attachment 5734View attachment 5735

this is what happens when you take RNG risk management very seriously for several years. RNG has mood swings on the short term, Look at my MMM, I to am currently in a dry spell of those but is very predicable as long as you have a long term vision. do not look to next week but look to next year. where do I want to be a long time from now. UUU am am currently drowning in, but I will see dry spells so I am not using that surpluss now. I am saving it.
If I wait long enough those MMM will rise above 30 again. it just takes time.
I would agree that the game is about resource management, but you can't save what you don't have. ;)

I don't think using 1 of each type of mil building per week is excessive and not according to the numbers of mil buildings some people are saying we should be seeing each week in our MAs...haha ;)
It's also very difficult, if not impossible (outside of running possible outcomes, using different algorithms) to predict or plan for 'the future' using something as random (RNG in this case).
 

OldHag

Enchanter
@cwgiii - you posted this in the closed thread and I didn't get the chance to reply to you
'I believe the location/order of the slots can change (I have seen this when switching between the mobile app and the browser version). But the actual items did not change.'

I was convinced that my pet food had appeared in differing slots to those that @CrazyWizard had posted (slot 5), so I kept an eye on mine. What I noticed is that on opening my ma when the recipes have changed, my pet food can appear in any of the 5 slots, but if I close my ma then reopen it the pet food has moved to slot 5 - and the other recipes line up with what @CrazyWizard posted......that may explain why you are also seeing the location/order has changed when you switch devices?
 

CrazyWizard

Shaman
I would agree that the game is about resource management, but you can't save what you don't have. ;)

I don't think using 1 of each type of mil building per week is excessive and not according to the numbers of mil buildings some people are saying we should be seeing each week in our MAs...haha ;)
It's also very difficult, if not impossible (outside of running possible outcomes, using different algorithms) to predict or plan for 'the future' using something as random (RNG in this case).
Off course you can, I am doing it for years now.
RNG is random with small sample, but with large sample RNG's are very predictable.

It's like rolling a dice, when you look at a single dice it's random and has 6 different outcomes.
When you roll 10 dice it's still random, but also less random unless you roll super lucky or unlucky
when you roll a thousand dice, it's impossible to get a lucky or unlucky result.

When 100 people roll 1000 dice the result will be pretty much the same for all 100 people.

Thats where I am banking on,
What's the 1000 average? and thats how I tune in my gameplay.

When you work with long term averages there is no such thing as lucky/unlucky or RNG.
 

OldHag

Enchanter
Off course you can, I am doing it for years now.
RNG is random with small sample, but with large sample RNG's are very predictable.

It's like rolling a dice, when you look at a single dice it's random and has 6 different outcomes.
When you roll 10 dice it's still random, but also less random unless you roll super lucky or unlucky
when you roll a thousand dice, it's impossible to get a lucky or unlucky result.

When 100 people roll 1000 dice the result will be pretty much the same for all 100 people.

Thats where I am banking on,
What's the 1000 average? and thats how I tune in my gameplay.

When you work with long term averages there is no such thing as lucky/unlucky or RNG.


@CrazyWizard first off, let me say, I love youC
==================================
@CrazyWizard first off, let me say, I love your maths head, just want to make that known. :)

In my opinion, the only prediction you can accurately make is that 'the house always wins'.......these are valuable buildings and therefore the RNG may on occassion need to be tweaked so that not too many of them are being given away for 'free' in the ma, imagine that.

I don't/can't dispute your maths and besides @Sir Derf might feel the need to write a 10 page essay........lol.......only joking @Sir Derf :)

Having said that, I will be following all of you math head guys advice around managing of these mil buildings and see how I get on. :)
 

Sir Derf

Artisan
CW, mostly agree with the sentiment, but I'm mentally tweaking a few of your word choices.

OH, I really shouldn't appear, since you only said my name twice...

umm.... The Elvenar MA isn't really parallel with casino games, or the lottery, where you pay before you play, and the house overbalances the cost/win ratio so that the odds are they should get more than they give. I'd say the better analogy would be a, um, 'candy' dealer... You know, the kind of 'candy' dealer where the first taste is free... Except, this 'candy' dealer has set up a system where you can get a few pieces of 'candy' essentially for free, hoping that some players might get so, um, 'dependent' on 'candy' that they might be willing to pay for additional 'candy'.
 

Stucon

Scholar
My (limited) understanding of how software works is that there is no real RNG in computing, rather it is a long list of numbers that are followed.
Any computer programmers that can comment from a point of knowledge please?
 

Regina8

Soothsayer
My thoughts entirely @Stucon . There is no point in calculating probabilities for something that can be tweaked and manipulated in so many ways to one's heart desire... I do not believe that we have any programmers in the "house", otherwise we would have heard from them by now. Usually they play out of professional interest, but this game offers very little to satisfy their curiosity.
 

CrazyWizard

Shaman
My (limited) understanding of how software works is that there is no real RNG in computing, rather it is a long list of numbers that are followed.
Any computer programmers that can comment from a point of knowledge please?
There isn't a list, but there are 2 ways to generate random numbers for a computer.

Pseudo random, this is a mathematical formula that generates random numbers. this is the most common way to generate numbers.
The main issue with the random number generation is not that it's not nicely random but that if you know where in the sequance it is, you can predict the next outcome. so this works fine for non-critical random number generation for example random loot in a game, but not for critical applications for example password generation, or random key generations because once you know the 1 key, you can guess the other generated keys.

@Regina8 this is an old formula, it works, you better take of your tin foil hat. nobody is gonna mess with it.
It's very tiring for yourself if you think there is an enemy behind every tree in a forest.
To think they would mess with random number generation just to screw you over is tin foil hat material. a programmer has better things to do that to mess with that, in general they are lazy and prefer to reuse code. building a new RNG from scratch will never be done unless there is an insane good reason to do it. (see the second way to generate random numbers)

The second way to generate a random key is, an example I have seen is a camera placed at a wall of lava lamps.
You cannot predict the behavior of eacj lamp at each moment in time so the camera will always generate a unique unpredicable picture. this picture is then used to feed the random number generator of a starting value thats different each time.
Another way they create random numbers is listening to background noise. this is also unique and there are other tricks.
This way the numbers become truely random. this is used in very critical applications where figuring out the number has great implications, think about secure bank keys to dealm with money transfers.

So RNG is always a mathematical formula, it's not a booklet with numbers printen in it that it follows to the teeth.
They do need a starting point, a start input.(for example current date/time) this can be generated in several ways. and the input is for crypthography the weak spot. but for games it doesnt matter.

It has no implications if I could predict the outcome of each RNG.
 

Gargon667

Immortal
@cwgiii - you posted this in the closed thread and I didn't get the chance to reply to you
'I believe the location/order of the slots can change (I have seen this when switching between the mobile app and the browser version). But the actual items did not change.'

I was convinced that my pet food had appeared in differing slots to those that @CrazyWizard had posted (slot 5), so I kept an eye on mine. What I noticed is that on opening my ma when the recipes have changed, my pet food can appear in any of the 5 slots, but if I close my ma then reopen it the pet food has moved to slot 5 - and the other recipes line up with what @CrazyWizard posted......that may explain why you are also seeing the location/order has changed when you switch devices?
There are 5 fixed slots as to what recipes you can get in each slot, but there are not fixed in a certain position in the MA, so any of the 5 slots can show up in any of the 5 positions...
 

Regina8

Soothsayer
@CrazyWizard There are a few algorithms for RNG in gaming and not just 1 that you have mentioned. Many games use time as a seed, but not all, we don't know what Inno is using, and indeed, there are "cheaters" out there... Additionally some limiting factors can be introduced into RNG algorithm, again we know nothing about those...so my "tin foil hat" stays firmly attached lol.
 

Regina8

Soothsayer
Well, I have observed and recorded slot 5 for 1 week in my both cities 2 weeks ago. This was a good week for my unlucky city, as I got 4 pet food; since then I got only 4 pet food in 2 weeks and that is how my normal RNG works there. Some weeks I don't get any pet food at all. I spend 3-4 pet food per week, that is why my pet food stock rarely grows above 10. I know of many other players that have an unlucky RNG set up, just like mine.

EN2 Server (Elf) unlucky city
EN3 Server (Human) lucky city
Phoenix Artifact
0​
3 (11%)​
Other Artifacts
1 Bear + 1 Mermaid (7%)​
Relics
22 (79%)​
18 (64%)​
Pet Food
4 (14%)​
7 (25%)​
Total:
28 (100 %)
28 (100 %)
 

Sir Derf

Artisan
May I know where you found those numbers. Any % on military building occurrences.
I think it was @CrazyWizard who ran the equivalent of 10 weeks of crafting forced with diamonds, and he saw about 25% out of 280 rounds. He has a table in a post somewhere on here with his data. If I recollect, he did provided data on slot 5 only, so no building data.
 

JollyElf

Spellcaster
Thanks @Sir Derf and @Regina8
I saw crafting probabilities on minmax website and it had a few 1% for per food only. Guess the probability was counted from the whole pool, and not from items that appear in a particular slot.
 

Sir Derf

Artisan
I'm not sure what you saw. The original Crafting had all recipes in one pool, so you could end up with all five at once showing Relic recipes, or any other set-of-five. This was changed a while ago to separate them into five separate, independent pools. While some people appear to have had exceedingly poor runs, it is still the working theory that the base chance of seeing a Pet Food recipe is close to 25% per recipe rotation.
 

CrazyWizard

Shaman
I think it was @CrazyWizard who ran the equivalent of 10 weeks of crafting forced with diamonds, and he saw about 25% out of 280 rounds. He has a table in a post somewhere on here with his data. If I recollect, he did provided data on slot 5 only, so no building data.
yup. but I did not save a link. so no clue where I posted it on this forum