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Penalise prolonged unfair trades

MasterElvis

Novice
I am level 15 and getting exasperated at the long outstanding number of unfair trades on sentient goods. There is a good reason for allowing them, to let FS members take priority and help new small members, and unfair trades have their place, but the good reasons for this are time limited as fs member assistance is completed quickly. I see a growing number of zero rated trades to make a profit by a few people and these are dominating trader.

I believe that fair trade is an essential to the enjoyment of the game, and many of my FS members are expressing greater exasperation with some saying that if it continues, thay may leave the game. Many of these are similar level players who have spent good money in the game. This is a good game but this growing unfair trade by a minority of players is spoiling it.

I suggest (to allow for the quick trades to help fs members, that in order to keep it reasonable, INNO introduce a rule (fairly simple to program) that any outstanding unfair trades at end of day suffer a 10% deduction on both sides, and are then automatically placed back to the existing default manufactury store for the player. The effect is a penalisation for any left on trader with auto removal to discourage the long term abuse of fair trade.
 

Silmaril

Community Manager
Elvenar Team
The very nature of the Trader is to allow for players to place their trades within a broad remit.
Whilst we appreciate that some players prefer to try and trade at the very boundaries of this, we are not looking to enforce this as it is designed to allow freedom of choice.
By choosing not to accept these trades, it will decrease the numbers of them.
Also reaching out to your trading partners to improve this, is also of course an option.
 

MasterElvis

Novice
Your reply is very generic, unfair trades create discontent and the suggestions I make encourage a fair trading society that enhances the game, please reconsider this very outdated response. I, as an an advanced player with many others have spent a considerable amount over 3 or more years and a minority are now ruining this for us. A simple deterrent (I am a programmer and can do the changes if your team cannot) would continue to make it a very enjoyable, and therefore profitable game for you.
 

Pauly7

Magus
I understand your frustration to a point, but there are several counters to this:

Why is a trade unfair? Are you forced to take it? They are labelled as one star or zero star as a handy tip for people, but people will trade at a level that the market will support. If you don't want the trade then don't take it.

The only problem, as far as I can see, is that you would rather not skip through many pages of one star and zero star trades. I get that, for sure, and I would support any change that allowed us to hide one star and zero star trades from view, but there is no such thing as an unfair trade. Let people sell for what they think is a reasonable level. If people don't take them, they won't post them.

The only thing that doesn't sit well with me is the idea that people may be posting trades with the sole intention of hoping someone will accidentally click them. I am not sure there is a better solution to that than people just being careful.

And for the record - I, personally, only post two and three star trades (mostly three star, as it goes,) but I still believe it's a free market.
 

Julian

Sorcerer
There is also a good reason to allow unfair trades. Many fellowships offer to boost new players. To do that, the new player will post an unfavourable trade, which the larger, established fellows will take.
 

BlueBlou

Illusionist
The majority of zero star trades are in the sentient goods category. Strangely enough, from some strong players. Do they think the daily devaluation don’t apply if the goods are on the trader and not in their store? I don’t know, as I have not gone so far as to ask them why they are doing what they are doing. Gets devaluated in any case. If they are fishing for people who tap incorrectly and take their trade by mistake, morally just wrong, Ha, how about the opportunity to cancel a trade taken?
 

Thagdal

Sorcerer
If people don't take them, they won't post them.

I beg to differ. There are quite a few repeat offenders that post these frequently, these trades are nearing expiry.

trader01.JPG
trader02.JPG


These trades are at the end of the list but it gets annoying when looking for a specific goods in the filter.
 

CrazyWizard

Shaman
I understand your frustration to a point, but there are several counters to this:

Why is a trade unfair? Are you forced to take it? They are labelled as one star or zero star as a handy tip for people, but people will trade at a level that the market will support. If you don't want the trade then don't take it.

The only problem, as far as I can see, is that you would rather not skip through many pages of one star and zero star trades. I get that, for sure, and I would support any change that allowed us to hide one star and zero star trades from view, but there is no such thing as an unfair trade. Let people sell for what they think is a reasonable level. If people don't take them, they won't post them.

The only thing that doesn't sit well with me is the idea that people may be posting trades with the sole intention of hoping someone will accidentally click them. I am not sure there is a better solution to that than people just being careful.

And for the record - I, personally, only post two and three star trades (mostly three star, as it goes,) but I still believe it's a free market.
An easy solution would be to allow us to filter away unfair trades.

Unfair trades (1 and 0 stars) are already relegated to the bottom of the pile, the moment you see an "unfair" trade you can stop scrolling as no fair trade will be behind that.

They already changed the 1:4:16 crap that showed "unfair trades" as fair.
1:1.5:2.25 is relative fair (favors T1 a bit)

As for sentient, cross tier trades are also beneficial for everyone as they decay. cross allows you to trade unwanted goods for what you need now. and the values are quite decent with 1:1.5:2.25 you get a decent amount of cross goods for your sentient so that you can advance faster in the way you want. again it's no 1:4:16 crap we had in the past

So what is the real problem? Is the problem that a few traders "make a buck"?
Just ignore them, just like I do.
 

Lelanya

Mentor
The reason that folks are back to complaining is the enormous amount of sentients required to unlock tech in the final three chapters. My fellows are struggling to finish the Spire because they cannot get some basic goods.

Some unfair traders have spoken up. They seem to feel that the fact that these goods decay invites the opportunity to claw the decay back from the system. Either the tradee, as it were, will not wish to wait another day's decay, and take their trades out of desperation. Or, that the whole system is unfair and the rest of us 'owe' them the extra.

Rule of thumb: take note of the unfair traders, and never help them. Ever.
 

Pauly7

Magus
Rule of thumb: take note of the unfair traders, and never help them. Ever.
And this is the thing.

Even though I'd like people to stop calling them "unfair" and I support a free market, I still maintain that there is a point to all these trades we see. Sure many of them probably sit there for a week and expire, but the people placing them must be getting at least some kind of success, or they wouldn't be doing it. If no one took them there would be no point. As it mostly applies to sentient trades I would think that most people who have reach the Elementals chapter would know the game well enough to only pick trades that are beneficial for them. We should consider that there may be many players who are glad to take a trade at a loss because they know they may have the option to get those goods faster than the others who are prepared to wait.
 

Gargon667

Mentor
An easy solution would be to allow us to filter away unfair trades.

They are already filtered to the bottom of the list!
I never understand why this bothers anyone... Just stop scrolling when you see the first 1 star trade.
 

Gargon667

Mentor
And this is the thing.

Even though I'd like people to stop calling them "unfair" and I support a free market, I still maintain that there is a point to all these trades we see. Sure many of them probably sit there for a week and expire, but the people placing them must be getting at least some kind of success, or they wouldn't be doing it. If no one took them there would be no point. As it mostly applies to sentient trades I would think that most people who have reach the Elementals chapter would know the game well enough to only pick trades that are beneficial for them. We should consider that there may be many players who are glad to take a trade at a loss because they know they may have the option to get those goods faster than the others who are prepared to wait.

There is this old rumor going around that you can cheat the decay if you keep your goods in the trader. My guess is most of the 0 star trades you see are owed to that silly old rumor... And me posting this now will probably lead to another bunch of people trying to see if it works lol...
 

Alcaro

Necromancer
There is this old rumor going around that you can cheat the decay if you keep your goods in the trader. My guess is most of the 0 star trades you see are owed to that silly old rumor... And me posting this now will probably lead to another bunch of people trying to see if it works lol...

:D:D:D

they are decaying at the normal rate, just as the ones you have in your inventory.
 

Skelve

Bard
I think having an option to filter based on the star rating of the trades should address this issue. However, the other filters and the existing sort order of placing higher star trades first have helped me to avoid having to flip through pages to find the trade I want. If not I always ask from my Fellowship and they have always helped me. Therefore, I am not sure whether this is a serious issue.
 

Wowwie

Soothsayer
there nothing that say the trades are unfair
though i do not like them myself there is no trader guide as to what is fair or unfair
just because u drop the cost 10 off your trading goods to make 3 stars does not make that a good trade

I agree with Shelve I do not think this is a serious issue
 

CrazyWizard

Shaman
I think having an option to filter based on the star rating of the trades should address this issue. However, the other filters and the existing sort order of placing higher star trades first have helped me to avoid having to flip through pages to find the trade I want. If not I always ask from my Fellowship and they have always helped me. Therefore, I am not sure whether this is a serious issue.

In the past the star rating was no help, as 1:4:16 always placed a 1:3:12 trade always on top as an amazing deal (which it was not)
With 1 : 1.5 : 2.25 this problem is solved. similar the othet way around a 0-1 star deal could been amazing in the old system.

a 3 star deal is in general also a 3 star deal. and 0-1 star deals are 0-1 star deals.

I do not see how a "filter" button for 0 and 1 star deals would do anything, as said those are already relegated to the bottom.
You always see the "good deals" first, unless there are none,

You could filter those away with a button, so you open trader, see 0-1 star deals press the button and see nothing.
What did change?

nothing!
 

Gargon667

Mentor
I think having an option to filter based on the star rating of the trades should address this issue.

That is exactly the standard sorting right now. What other option are you thinking about?
 

BlueBlou

Illusionist
Has anybody ever heard about reading things from the back or end? Seems to me the assumption is made that a person starts on the first page. What if I do want to get to the small quantity trades that should ideally be listed last? In the browzwer you would select go to last page as that is the quickest way, except now you have to scroll through pages and pages of zero star trades before getting where you want to be. That is life using the browzer ...
 
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