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Gargon667

Mentor
Just for the entertainment value I read through the German thread over there and I can tell you you have missed nothing at all. Lots of words and zero content.
The answers to the thread (before they closed replies) were exactly the same our mods would have gotten from us: thanks for posting, irony and desperation.

They acknowledged that problems exist. Their reply is the same old standard nonsense they always post.

AWs can´t technically be teleported because they cannot save the current progress lol. Nobody ever mentioned before that nobody cares about current progress??? All they need to save is the current level...

Wishing Wells have to be eliminated because of previous abuse. But they don´t say why they can´t have an occasional WW as a grand prize.

All the answers go along the same lines. It´s like they answer an old version of the problem, but not once talk about why they don´t imprelement obvious solutions. So the whole thing is entire BS and if you ask me it is better our mods don´t even bother wasting our time with a half hour read of zero information.

So here my honest thank you to our mods for NOT posting BS like that over there on the German page.

Let´s just accept the fact that this forum here is for entertainment only and some mods to player and player to player information, but not for getting info from Inno to players.
 

Pauly7

Magus
Let´s just accept the fact that this forum here is for entertainment only and some mods to player and player to player information, but not for getting info from Inno to players.
Just because that's the case doesn't mean that we can't want it to change. It doesn't have to be the way it is. It isn't for other games or other more real-world scenarios.

No, it doesn't look like they managed to make any good progress on the other servers, plus that whole description of playing jeopardy and escape rooms was entirely pointless, but I don't agree that silence is better. Right now there are a lot of unhappy players on Elvenar. More than there's ever been before, I believe... and more people leaving. If the time is taken to include people in the discussion then they can at least feel like they're part of the same fight. This will lead to more of a positive feeling, which then gets passed down to other fellows who are not reading these messages.

I'm not going to attempt to read the German forum, but I'm willing to bet that there was some gratitude for the explanation of the process and then probably slightly less bad feeling by the end of it.
 

Far Reach

Conjurer
But please keep adding suggestions here for this and between us I am sure we can work it out. Although sadly I have got to go back to work now, so I will not be around for a few hours.

I appreciate the willingness to discuss these issues. My slight concern with this issue (around communication) is that there have been a number of posts relating to it recently, but little seems to have come of them. Some actual confidence building measures (demonstrating that there is actually a desire to improve, as opposed to pay lip service to the topic) I think would help a lot.

Since you asked for suggestions, I provide a few more (to add to those I've previously posted on other threads.) These cover the type of things which I would look to do were I in the CM role (which I should add I am not aspiring to !) Obviously others might have a completely different perspective or style of course.

I see the primary purpose of the "Community Manager" role as ensuring an effective two-way communication between the player-base and the Inno dev teams.

(1) I'd make a sticky post explaining how the engagement (between CMs and devs) currently works and how I could realistically expect to represent player-base views to them.

(2) When I had them, I'd post informal insights in Innos thinking, along the lines described by C-Nymph and Pauly 7 above. These would be appropriately caveated (e.g. just current ideas, may not happen, Spoiler alert). Such posts would be intended not just to make players more involved, but also better able to tailor their feedback in a manner meaningful to Inno.

(3) Periodically I'd feedback player's ideas , suggestions and challenges to Inno. I would post exact details of the feedback taken forward (so that the player-base understood how it was being represented). I would try to ensure that a response to every item was obtained and published back on the forums. Achieving this would almost certainly involving rationing the collective feedback to a small number of items, and (where appropriate) I would hold a vote on the forums to decide on the most popular topics.

(4) I'd work with CMs on other servers in order to understand what issues their Players had, and (where appropriate) to co-ordinate such feedback for maximum impact. As an example, I'd provide the US CMs with a fair summary of our Tournament Changes thread (which summary I'd also post here) to support their efforts.

(5) Part of the role is representing Inno on these forums, and explaining the decisions of the dev teams. I'd look to ensure that I understood these as well as possible (before posting) and also feed back to Inno when their messages clearly weren't landing. (Certain comments around tournament difficulty formula and understanding of the data generally are conspicuous examples of this.) I'd look to try to find a way to avoid both sides talking at cross-purposes. This might be by getting more context from the devs, personally delving into the subject in more detail, working with other CMs etc.
 

Silmaril

Community Manager
Elvenar Team
Thanks guys, to confirm a few things then :)
Please never think that when the team are saying they will query or check something or pass something on that this is not done. All questions and queries are collected centrally to then be looked at and answered as soon as we are able to.
I appreciate that a lot would like to be hearing from the devs, but as you can appreciate they work full time in the development of the game. This is why every 2 weeks we have changes and bug fixes as well as frequent events and new chapters. Yes they are pulled away from this for meetings so that the team are aware of a bigger evolving picture.
My thoughts are to create a dedicated thread to bring forward some of the things we can mention regarding the game development, this I hope will not be too boring as from initial decision for a change to creation can take many months to even get as far as testing.
 

Pauly7

Magus
My thoughts are to create a dedicated thread to bring forward some of the things we can mention regarding the game development, this I hope will not be too boring as from initial decision for a change to creation can take many months to even get as far as testing.
This is what I was about to suggest, developing on what @Far Reach suggested. Perhaps a sticky thread saying "developer updates (possible spoiler alert)" that could be added to as and when there have been conversations that may be of interest. It would be really nice to have a summary of questions that have been asked on the forum so that people don't feel like it was a wasted effort.
 

Killiak

Artisan
Let´s just accept the fact that this forum here is for entertainment only and some mods to player and player to player information, but not for getting info from Inno to players.

Let's just accept that a lot of people disagree with you, and that you are in no way forced to read Silmaril's information thread. It will be there for you to ignore.

Isn't that great!?
 

Gargon667

Mentor
Let's just accept that a lot of people disagree with you, and that you are in no way forced to read Silmaril's information thread. It will be there for you to ignore.

Isn't that great!?

Great? Either you are extremely easily pleased or sarcastic, not sure which one it is.

Also I don´t know what information thread you are talking about, I am talking about the "information" thread on the German forum that was linked above.

Great indeed would be actual information as to what is happening and why.
 

Gargon667

Mentor
Just because that's the case doesn't mean that we can't want it to change. It doesn't have to be the way it is. It isn't for other games or other more real-world scenarios.

No, it doesn't look like they managed to make any good progress on the other servers, plus that whole description of playing jeopardy and escape rooms was entirely pointless, but I don't agree that silence is better. Right now there are a lot of unhappy players on Elvenar. More than there's ever been before, I believe... and more people leaving. If the time is taken to include people in the discussion then they can at least feel like they're part of the same fight. This will lead to more of a positive feeling, which then gets passed down to other fellows who are not reading these messages.

I'm not going to attempt to read the German forum, but I'm willing to bet that there was some gratitude for the explanation of the process and then probably slightly less bad feeling by the end of it.

I wholeheartedly agree with you. The only difference is I lack the faith.

Yes some people did indeed express gratitude for the post, but people leaving from there happily is not true either, people react just like you would react when you ask why they don´t do AW teleports and they say: "it´s not technically possible to store current progress on an AW"
 

Killiak

Artisan
Great? Either you are extremely easily pleased or sarcastic, not sure which one it is.

Also I don´t know what information thread you are talking about, I am talking about the "information" thread on the German forum that was linked above.

You're not sure? Let me explain it then, just for you:
You're telling people to accept a fact, when it's actually just your opinion, which clearly is not a fact. We have been asking Inno to give us more information, to communicate more, and Silmaril is seemingly willing to do so. It's a step towards having something we did not have before, and personally I think that is a good thing.

Since apparently you are NEVER going to be pleased or think it is enough, as demonstrated by you saying you 'lack the faith', I would simply suggest you just not read the thread when Silmaril makes it. That way you will never have to be dissappointed by it!


@Silmaril I look forward to seeing the thread appear soon!
 

Gargon667

Mentor
You're not sure? Let me explain it then, just for you:
You're telling people to accept a fact, when it's actually just your opinion, which clearly is not a fact. We have been asking Inno to give us more information, to communicate more, and Silmaril is seemingly willing to do so. It's a step towards having something we did not have before, and personally I think that is a good thing.

Since apparently you are NEVER going to be pleased or think it is enough, as demonstrated by you saying you 'lack the faith', I would simply suggest you just not read the thread when Silmaril makes it. That way you will never have to be dissappointed by it!


@Silmaril I look forward to seeing the thread appear soon!

I don´t know where you get your ideas from. I never said anything negative about Silmaril sharing information, I never actually ever said anything at all about Silmarils thread, you´re the only one who keeps talking about it. My post was before Silmaril said anything about information threads.

I will be happy to give them another chance (somthing like the 17th or so?) because it doesn´t cost me anything after all :)

The only thing you got right is that I do not believe it will happen. Simply because Silmaril doesn´t have the power to do things Inno doesn´t want CMs to do. Not blaming Silmaril or any other CM, I just find it rather obvious where Inno stands in regards to communication and which way it is supposed to go. I guess you are right, that may just be my opinion no matter how obvious i find it.
And I also want to say I will be more than happy if I get proven wrong :D
 

Killiak

Artisan
I don´t know where you get your ideas from.

From your very own post, where you state :
Let´s just accept the fact that this forum here is for entertainment only and some mods to player and player to player information, but not for getting info from Inno to players.

To which I replied, and even explained further because you clearly missed the point and didn't get it right.
But hey, you can try again.

And I also want to say I will be more than happy if I get proven wrong :D

I certainly hope, and actually think, you will be proven wrong.
Let's keep that trend going.
 

CrazyWizard

Shaman
I wonder who Sasha is, as this "meeting with the developers" I havent seen any developer yet unless it's Sasha.
Jonas is the Product Manager, the one who greenlits ideas. so blame him for the new tournaments.
Steffi is Lead CM
Tom is Community Management Specialist (steffi's right hand)
And then Sasha is the big asterix to me. Is he the lead game developer? is the the one that has to "design" things?

Othewise this "developer meeting" has no developer in it o_O
 

Gargon667

Mentor
From your very own post, where you state :
Let´s just accept the fact that this forum here is for entertainment only and some mods to player and player to player information, but not for getting info from Inno to players.

To which I replied, and even explained further because you clearly missed the point and didn't get it right.
But hey, you can try again.



I certainly hope, and actually think, you will be proven wrong.
Let's keep that trend going.

So would you please enlighten me as to where there has come information from inno to players? As in any answer to any question? And no not from CMs to players or players to player, but actual info from devs to players?
 

Killiak

Artisan
So would you please enlighten me as to where there has come information from inno to players? As in any answer to any question? And no not from CMs to players or players to player, but actual info from devs to players?

My god man, that's what this ENTIRE thread is about.

Several players asking the CM's of this forum to provide more direct information on what they hear from Inno! What they discuss in meetings and learn about, when talking to the Devs! Not just announcing final changes, but more active information sharing, and more communication; that's what is asked for in this thread!
 

Gargon667

Mentor
@Gargon667 Every piece of information that comes through the team is ultimately from the developers. There is a chain throughout Elvenar to bring the information from them to our players. So I am not quite sure where you think the information comes from.

I think we are thinking of entirely different things here. Of course announcements come from Inno. But then I can read announcements by myself and don´t need any help with that.

What doesn´t come from Inno is a 2-way communication, they make statements, they do not answer questions, they don´t feel like answering. For example an explanation of a topic like the tourney. Biggest thing that has happened in a long time. Many of the problems that have occurred have been predicted before and during introduction and have never been adressed. Why do they multiply factors instead of adding them, why do they think it is a good idea to penalize upgrading AWs? Or placing expansions? Or in general penalize building a city in a city building game? What is the reason behind kicking the highest developed players in the teeth? Questions that have been asked over and over and over. But Inno doesn´t see fit to ever answer a single one of these questions. The closest to an "answer" we have come is the fact that they have rolled out tourneys to all servers and supposedly tourneys are no "working as intended"
Do you really call that an adequate answer to all the above questions?
If you do then OK, we can stop talking, we will not ever agree on this point.

So yes I would like to get an answer to some (or all) of the above (and much more than just that of course). I do not believe that Inno has any intention of ever answering any of these questions and therefore you will not ever be able to give a relevant answer either. i am not blaming you for it, it is simply not company policy to talk about things that are potentially compromising. And yes, I think especially in the tourney serious errors have been made by Inno, errors they have not forseen (by the time they introduced it on beta and people told them what would happen, the code was finished, minor cosmetic changes notwithstanding), but they do not intend to fix either (presumably too much work), talking about it would not be a good idea from their point of view. They just hope it will blow over eventually...

What I suppose your job is and I do believe you do well is forward some ideas and questions from the forum to the devs and get an answer whether or not they intend to implement them. Say like a nicer inventory to make it more organized (just picking a random little thing). Small stuff, that would the game a little bit nicer to play. still fun to talk about, but either way it will not decide if a player stays with the game or quits. What I am talking about (and this may just be my thinking) is a whole different category. Things that majorly affect the game (like once or twice a year) in my eyes deserve a bit more love. Someone who is actually involved in making major changes to the game could spend a half hour writing down thoughts and decisions made, give reasons for what has happened and why and answer some of the major questions regarding the topic? Is that really too much asked? That is the kind of information that I am talking about when I say Inno doesn´t give out information. haven´t seen it happen in the time since I play the game as far as I can remember, so I assume it is company policy and will therefore never happen.
Inno does something and then says here it is: eat it or leave it. Some people may call that information, but I don´t. So it may just be that difference in definition of the word...
 

Gargon667

Mentor
Several players asking the CM's of this forum to provide more direct information on what they hear from Inno! What they discuss in meetings and learn about, when talking to the Devs! Not just announcing final changes, but more active information sharing, and more communication; that's what is asked for in this thread!

I completely agree with this sentiment.

has nothing to do with what i was saying before, I was referring (and I repeat myself) to the post on the German forum, by a community manager, that in my eyes was entirely pointless.
I agree I would love to get more information, what I said is in the post on the German forum that did not happen. there was a very long post by a CM that was entirely devoid of useful information.

Some people like the sentiment that somebody was talking to them, I disliked wasting my time reading through a long post and learning nothing new. Opinions...
 
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