Discussion News from Beta (may contain spoilers!)

[DeletedUser7526]

Losing interest + disheartening. Regret placing Premium expansions and leveling commercial AWs (non military)

 

[DeletedUser7526]

How does playing on mobile have an effect on Orcs?

probably he means auto vs manual battling.

 

[C-Nymph]

How is a mobile player to play?

How does playing on mobile have an effect on Orcs?

probably he means auto vs manual battling.

Orcs only matter in catering, so that still doesn't make sense...

 

[C-Nymph]

To stay on topic; as I'm seeing the things I feared become the truth on beta, I am seriously considering making a beta account for the sole reason of then being able to voice my opinion on this ridiculousness that is the new tournament system on the beta forums before it becomes a reality here on the live servers as well...

The level of difficulty has been edited in such a way that it now seems almost impossible to go deep, making it even more useless that they were pushing the "complete a province" quests in previous events because all those unlocked provinces are now worthless as you can't reach them in tourney. On top of that, the random mixing of opponents makes the ELR and MMM lose significant value. All of this leading to less predictability, less kp rewards and thus slower progression of our cities (but the latter is what they continuously seem to aim for with any alterations of the game they introduce).

But we should probably say thank you to Inno for listening to our feedback of wanting less clicks and a different effect of the squad size upgrades for tourney...
It remains very special how they always seem to take our feedback, change the entire meaning of what we wanted and give us something that makes the previous situation seem like paradise...

 

[CrazyWizard]

Well, some players asked for the reduce in clicks... Seriously though, as it is now on beta I can't express my feelings without the post getting removed. May we just forget all this and go back to the thousands clicks a week please?

But why did the reduced number of clicks have to lead to increased difficulty? I think that, as many times before, they just used that request made by players to make the changes they wanted to make.

Well you got less clicks in a double whammy, because you went from 4 to 1 encounter and from 30-40-50 some even more to 10-20 provinces
feels like going back 4 years on so in time when the tournaments were just released

 

[CrazyWizard]

To stay on topic; as I'm seeing the things I feared become the truth on beta, I am seriously considering making a beta account for the sole reason of then being able to voice my opinion on this ridiculousness that is the new tournament system on the beta forums before it becomes a reality here on the live servers as well...

The level of difficulty has been edited in such a way that it now seems almost impossible to go deep, making it even more useless that they were pushing the "complete a province" quests in previous events because all those unlocked provinces are now worthless as you can't reach them in tourney. On top of that, the random mixing of opponents makes the ELR and MMM lose significant value. All of this leading to less predictability, less kp rewards and thus slower progression of our cities (but the latter is what they continuously seem to aim for with any alterations of the game they introduce).

But we should probably say thank you to Inno for listening to our feedback of wanting less clicks and a different effect of the squad size upgrades for tourney...
It remains very special how they always seem to take our feedback, change the entire meaning of what we wanted and give us something that makes the previous situation seem like paradise...

We warned every lunatic that asked for less clicks to stop asking for it, as this was the obvious result we could see comming from miles away the second the spire was released.

 

[DeletedUser8409]

We warned every lunatic that asked for less clicks to stop asking for it, as this was the obvious result we could see comming from miles away the second the spire was released.

There's an old saying "don't throw the baby out with the bathwater".

Changing battles from 4 to 1 to reduce insane number of clicks was a very reasonable change to make. Doesn't mean punish people who've paid for premium expansions or jack the difficulty up through the roof. Those are different issues.

 

[Deleted User - 1759805]

We warned every lunatic that asked for less clicks to stop asking for it, as this was the obvious result we could see comming from miles away the second the spire was released.

I am looking forward to Inno's addressing crying about excess of spell fragments - because, you know, they interfere with gameplay... /s

 

[Hekata]

Well you got less clicks in a double whammy, because you went from 4 to 1 encounter and from 30-40-50 some even more to 10-20 provinces
feels like going back 4 years on so in time when the tournaments were just released

I didn't ask for less click although I was very happy at the idea of 1 click since doing 40 provinces was mind-numbing. But I don't think it's fair to blame the players who asked for less clicking for these huge changes. It's all on the devs. They have a long tradition of twisting every single suggestion and giving players something worse and that they never asked for. It came to the point that wherever someone comes to the forum with a bit of enthusiasm and some suggestions you have a few players replying with "Shhhhh! don't ask for that! It will only get worse!" There is currently an active thread about spell fragments in the Spire that illustrates it perfectly. At this point I don't really understand what's the purpose of the forum and asking us for feedback since it seems the devs only do what they intended in the first place and they use players suggestions only as an excuse to make those changes.

 

[CrazyWizard]

There's an old saying "don't throw the baby out with the bathwater".

Changing battles from 4 to 1 to reduce insane number of clicks was a very reasonable change to make. Doesn't mean punish people who've paid for premium expansions or jack the difficulty up through the roof. Those are different issues.

I didn't ask for less click although I was very happy at the idea of 1 click since doing 40 provinces was mind-numbing. But I don't think it's fair to blame the players who asked for less clicking for these huge changes. It's all on the devs. They have a long tradition of twisting every single suggestion and giving players something worse and that they never asked for. It came to the point that wherever someone comes to the forum with a bit of enthusiasm and some suggestions you have a few players replying with "Shhhhh! don't ask for that! It will only get worse!" There is currently an active thread about spell fragments in the Spire that illustrates it perfectly. At this point I don't really understand what's the purpose of the forum and asking us for feedback since it seems the devs only do what they intended in the first place and they use players suggestions only as an excuse to make those changes.

We both know how this thing would end, each and every time we get 1 part we like and 10 parts of garbage added to it
When the spire came out the first response from many of is was oh oh , the next step will be the tournament, please dont!
We got assured they would not touch the tournaments.

When the fellowship reward was added to the spire the tournament result rose and people kept asking for less clicks, every jarhead could make the conclusion that any change to the tournaments would result in the spire formula be added as well as this was the first thing we came up with when the spire was added to the game

Every single post about optional SS or less clicks I found and read on forums I responded the same way "please dont or they will add the spire formula and what not and we end up with worst than we started so please stop complaining."

Guess where we are now?

The spire formula is the result of complaints about optional SS, we knew that they would never go the easy route of removing the non mandatory ones from the formula. they have never before taken the easy route so why would they this time?

 

[Hekata]

@CrazyWizard Do you really think that they wouldn't have changed the tournaments if people didn't ask for less clicking? The devs do what they want here. We would have gotten the exact same thing regardless. The only difference is that in this case the dves said: "Alright, we go with all theses changes to make it fit the Spire model, and we are going to throw them a bone and accept their suggestion for less clicking". That's how this game is run IMHO, not the opposite where they take one suggestion and then look at ways to make it bad. I don't like the changes to the tournaments at all, but I refuse to put any blame on players who asked for less clicking.

 

[DeletedUser8409]

We both know how this thing would end, each and every time we get 1 part we like and 10 parts of garbage added to it
When the spire came out the first response from many of is was oh oh , the next step will be the tournament, please dont!
We got assured they would not touch the tournaments.

When the fellowship reward was added to the spire the tournament result rose and people kept asking for less clicks, every jarhead could make the conclusion that any change to the tournaments would result in the spire formula be added as well as this was the first thing we came up with when the spire was added to the game

Every single post about optional SS or less clicks I found and read on forums I responded the same way "please dont or they will add the spire formula and what not and we end up with worst than we started so please stop complaining."

Guess where we are now?

The spire formula is the result of complaints about optional SS, we knew that they would never go the easy route of removing the non mandatory ones from the formula. they have never before taken the easy route so why would they this time?

I could live with the Spire formula, that's not the red flag problem I see on the Beta forum. The Spire formula is roughly 4-5x your SS which given there's 1/4 the battles is fair enough.

What's utterly insane is seeing 2x difficulty and harder in the Tournament. What's up with that? The difficulty for Tournament Round 5 currently is 1.45x - the difficulty for Tournament Round 6 is 1.6x and I don't bother with Round 6 as why spend that many resources on a crappy relic . . . but now we're talking 2x difficulty and higher. Why? That's insane.

And its nothing to do with the Spire. I've cleared all 3 maps on the Spire since its began and I've never once seen 2x difficulty and higher in a single battle.

This is a new bogus design they've gone with. Don't blame the Spire, don't blame the players.

 

[C-Nymph]

I couldn't agree more @Hekata and @randblade!

Maybe @CrazyWizard is so frustrated that he is now calling players who are actually on his side "lunatics" and "jarheads", while he should actually be aiming his arrows at the devs, as they are the only ones responsible for the mess.

They made this forum so we could give feedback. Us not giving feedback because we fear what they might do with that feedback seems a little counterproductive to the objective of having a forum to give feedback on game mechanics...

It's the devs who completely screw up translating the feedback into new valuable changes/additions, not the players!

 

[Pauly7]

@CrazyWizard Do you really think that they wouldn't have changed the tournaments if people didn't ask for less clicking? The devs do what they want here. We would have gotten the exact same thing regardless. The only difference is that in this case the dves said: "Alright, we go with all theses changes to make it fit the Spire model, and we are going to throw them a bone and accept their suggestion for less clicking". That's how this game is run IMHO, not the opposite where they take one suggestion and then look at ways to make it bad. I don't like the changes to the tournaments at all, but I refuse to put any blame on players who asked for less clicking.

You're absolutely right. I think I said it a while ago that when they nerfed the tournaments they would find a way to wrap it up in something else and attempt to pass it off as an improvement or an enhancement. That's exactly what's happened. People asking for less clicking possibly gave the devs the segue they were looking for, but one way or another it still would have happened. Maybe it just speeds up the process if they're presented with the right request that means they can try to look like the good guys.

 

[Pauly7]

They made this forum so we could give feedback. Us not giving feedback because we fear what they might do with that feedback seems a little counterproductive to the objective of having a forum to give feedback on game mechanics...

Since I went onto Beta I can see that there is certainly a much more logical process of feedback there and some sort of responses are given, polls taken, etc. Sure, they still complain about not being listened to enough, but there's something.

I'm not really sure what the intention is with the EN forum, but feedback does not seem to be it because I don't recall a response every being given on it.

 

[Hekata]

I understand Wizard's frustration as he is going to be on of the players who get hit the most by these changes (although most of us will be hit hard). But it's contra-productive to blame players as they ultimately have 0 influence on what the devs will or won't do.

They made this forum so we could give feedback. Us not giving feedback because we fear what they might do with that feedback seems a little counterproductive to the objective of having a forum to give feedback on game mechanics...

Yes! I was trying to say exactly this this but you phrased it much better, thank you!

 

[C-Nymph]

You're absolutely right. I think I said it a while ago that when they nerfed the tournaments they would find a way to wrap it up in something else and attempt to pass it off as an improvement or an enhancement. That's exactly what's happened. People asking for less clicking possibly gave the devs the segue they were looking for, but one way or another it still would have happened. Maybe it just speeds up the process if they're presented with the right request that means they can try to look like the good guys.

Exactly. The easy solution would've been to just change the 4 battles per province into 1 bigger battle, and to maybe get rid of the extra battle result screen in between each fight/province. But instead, they chose to completely redesign the whole damn tournament system. It's obvious and clear they were planning to do so anyway, regardless of feedback.

Yes! I was trying to say exactly this this but you phrased it much better, thank you!

You're welcome

 

[Hekata]

You're absolutely right. I think I said it a while ago that when they nerfed the tournaments they would find a way to wrap it up in something else and attempt to pass it off as an improvement or an enhancement. That's exactly what's happened. People asking for less clicking possibly gave the devs the segue they were looking for, but one way or another it still would have happened. Maybe it just speeds up the process if they're presented with the right request that means they can try to look like the good guys.

We've seen this so many time by now, it's not even frustrating anymore, more like a funny guessing game of how are they going to do it. And I'm not even sure we can speed it up with our suggestions, there is a process to develop these features I suppose, it takes the time it takes...

 

[Pauly7]

Or, alternatively, to quote @SoggyShorts from the US forum, who has put it much more colourfully than me:

"Are they giving us what they perceive as healthy Brussel sprouts and tying it together with ice cream in an attempt to avoid an all-out revolt?"

 

[CrazyWizard]

I could live with the Spire formula, that's not the red flag problem I see on the Beta forum. The Spire formula is roughly 4-5x your SS which given there's 1/4 the battles is fair enough.

What's utterly insane is seeing 2x difficulty and harder in the Tournament. What's up with that? The difficulty for Tournament Round 5 currently is 1.45x - the difficulty for Tournament Round 6 is 1.6x and I don't bother with Round 6 as why spend that many resources on a crappy relic . . . but now we're talking 2x difficulty and higher. Why? That's insane.

And its nothing to do with the Spire. I've cleared all 3 maps on the Spire since its began and I've never once seen 2x difficulty and higher in a single battle.

This is a new bogus design they've gone with. Don't blame the Spire, don't blame the players.

Wel thanks to the spire formula I am going end up with a 16-18x increase instead of a 4x, to me that formula is the root of the problem, as it seems to be balanced towards "Joe I dont spend a penny average" and hurt people who actually invest in both there town and the tournaments in both the past and the future. just my expansion value is like 200K diamonds (doesnt mean I actually spend it all myself but enough people at my stage did, or will need to)
And I worked really hard the past 2+ years to level all my wonders the proper way. but now I find myself as an "edge case".
But you know you cannot become an "edge case" unless you fund inno-games. so this behavior does hurt and will hurt them in the future.
There have been enough talks on the forums about the whales in online games like this, and those whales are by definition edge cases.

They actually might loose the whales that care about tournaments (not every whale cares).
I have seldom seen a company shoot themselves in the foot like this.