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Discussion News from Beta (may contain spoilers!)

Errandil

Conjurer
This time the gap is huge, it's there instantly and there is partly no way to compensate and the other part means destroying all my hard work.
I think that with your ability to run two tournaments under the one set of boosters, combined with the HP/attack bonuses from the AWs you may still find yourself in a better position than the players who didn't have time to establish their city that well. I was planning to level up timewarp to lvl 30 this autumn after dealing with the NoT/FA, but seems like having 100%+ health bonus on troops each tournament will be the only way to somehow counter these changes.


I understand that for a large number of players who were mostly playing this game for the tourney scores this is a major set back and might be the reason to quite the game. If tournaments were my main interest I'd probably feel the same. But for me building my city was always my favourite part of the game and if the tourney get too hard and not motivating enough I'll just concentrate on my city.
I personally never played the tournaments for the score only and was more interested in the KP income exactly to build my city. And now it seems like after the changes my city building would get much slower if I'll end up loosing a good chunk of the KP income along with plenty of other useful stuff.
 

Errandil

Conjurer
im sure using your whole troop queue's and gathering every resource isnt an issue? you plan ahead for the next tournament by gathering and producing everything you can...seems a lot less tedious than producing the same goods/troops for tournaments as they are now.
Traders wont be empty of planks silk and gems in a planks tournament etc, etc, which is what they are trying to achieve. So trading should be easier.
I'd argue that having exactly the same approach each week (which will be just "I need a good stock of everything") will be much more tedious. Not to mention that the overproduction of scrolls would become much more of an issue without three weeks a cycle where they were needed in huge quantities.

if the game seriously does need to rebalance then I can accept that and press on.
Well, they of course screwed up with the bears, but in no way they needed to penalize everyone in such a harsh manner for that. If they really wanted to reduce the harm the bears done, they could just add some mechanics for the duplicate pets that each next feeding effect would be cut in half, i.e. the first bear adds 50% to troops, the second 25% and so on. Then after the next bear event, if as expected it would give the old bear artifacts, the players field would become much more levelled. But as it is now they are simply saying "hey, we noticed that some players manage to get too much for our liking with the stuff we gave them, let's take it all away and additionally penalize the most successful ones". It's not exactly a good approach to the balancing in my opinion.
 

Pauly7

Magus
Well, they of course screwed up with the bears, but in no way they needed to penalize everyone in such a harsh manner for that. If they really wanted to reduce the harm the bears done, they could just add some mechanics for the duplicate pets that each next feeding effect would be cut in half
Or... they could take away our access to pet food. Surely that would be the easy nerf for them? They could reduce them to a point where we could only craft one once every couple of weeks and they could even do it without saying what they'd done.
 

Hekata

Artisan
I personally never played the tournaments for the score only and was more interested in the KP income exactly to build my city. And now it seems like after the changes my city building would get much slower if I'll end up loosing a good chunk of the KP income along with plenty of other useful stuff.
It will make the game slower and harder for everyone but I think end game players with be hit the least when it comes to advancing in the game. Every time a new chapter arrives they have about 6 months to complete it before the next one which should be enough even with much less kps from tourneys. This will affect much more those in lower and mid-chapters. Just one example: imagine how much longer it will take them to get enough boosted relics if it's too hard for them to go past province 20 or maybe even 15.

they of course screwed up with the bears, but in no way they needed to penalize everyone in such a harsh manner for that. If they really wanted to reduce the harm the bears done, they could just add some mechanics for the duplicate pets that each next feeding effect would be cut in half, i.e. the first bear adds 50% to troops, the second 25% and so on. Then after the next bear event, if as expected it would give the old bear artifacts, the players field would become much more levelled
Those who have multiple bears will always have an advantage. Even with the new system, they'll get less than before but they will still get more than those who have 1 or none. The bears don't add to the difficulty of the tourney (or spire) as far as I know, so this new system doesn't change anything. Even if the September event gives more artifacts (and I doubt that) it won't allow for people to have 2 or more bears as you can't craft a second base. Actually the bear bases have been removed from the MA with the last update so, as it is currently, no one can have more bears.
 

DeletedUser8409

Guest
Personally I'm cautiously optimistic about these changes. In particular the changing 4 battles into 1 is something I've long hoped for. Doing the Tournament had frankly become a chore rather than fun - 75 provinces is 300 battles per round 1500 per week at 5 star.

I don't care if it gets more challenging, I can live with challenging. Just not mind numbingly boring please.

Plus if it's challenging bigger battles it brings back the possibility of manual battles instead of needing to auto everything.

So cautiously optimistic.
 

DeletedUser8409

Guest
I'd argue that having exactly the same approach each week (which will be just "I need a good stock of everything") will be much more tedious. Not to mention that the overproduction of scrolls would become much more of an issue without three weeks a cycle where they were needed in huge quantities.


Well, they of course screwed up with the bears, but in no way they needed to penalize everyone in such a harsh manner for that. If they really wanted to reduce the harm the bears done, they could just add some mechanics for the duplicate pets that each next feeding effect would be cut in half, i.e. the first bear adds 50% to troops, the second 25% and so on. Then after the next bear event, if as expected it would give the old bear artifacts, the players field would become much more levelled. But as it is now they are simply saying "hey, we noticed that some players manage to get too much for our liking with the stuff we gave them, let's take it all away and additionally penalize the most successful ones". It's not exactly a good approach to the balancing in my opinion.
It's not the fault of players with bears, we did nothing wrong.

I worked hard to win my bears based on what was offered at the time and everyone playing at the time had the same opportunities to win them. I went extreme to win multiple but that's because I thought they'd be valuable so put effort in to get them, I don't see why having done that they should be nerfed after the fact.
 

Errandil

Conjurer
It's not the fault of players with bears, we did nothing wrong.
I know, but it's definitely the combination of the bears and the spire that lead the devs to this tournament overhaul. And in my opinion they chose the worst possible solution eben if they saw it as an issue they have to fix.

Those who have multiple bears will always have an advantage. Even with the new system, they'll get less than before but they will still get more than those who have 1 or none.
Sure, but this approach would lessen the gap between one bear/multiple bears if they are worried about the balance that much. And as they are doing it now, the gap would stay the same, but everyone is getting into the worse conditions.

It will make the game slower and harder for everyone but I think end game players with be hit the least when it comes to advancing in the game. Every time a new chapter arrives they have about 6 months to complete it before the next one which should be enough even with much less kps from tourneys. This will affect much more those in lower and mid-chapters. Just one example: imagine how much longer it will take them to get enough boosted relics if it's too hard for them to go past province 20 or maybe even 15.
If we are getting the spire formula it would hit the hardest on the most developed players though. Looking at the difficulty chart, those who were doing 1k points a week would continue to do just as much. It's those who were trying to get the most out of the game are penalized.
 

CrazyWizard

Shaman
Personally I'm cautiously optimistic about these changes. In particular the changing 4 battles into 1 is something I've long hoped for. Doing the Tournament had frankly become a chore rather than fun - 75 provinces is 300 battles per round 1500 per week at 5 star.

I don't care if it gets more challenging, I can live with challenging. Just not mind numbingly boring please.

Plus if it's challenging bigger battles it brings back the possibility of manual battles instead of needing to auto everything.

So cautiously optimistic.

Don't worry you most likely do not get past 30-40 of them and to make that possible you can do them all manually instead.
I would say njoy ;)
 

DeletedUser7526

Guest
So cautiously optimistic.
You will be hit the most, trust me pal. I know how many premium expansions you have (genuinely won).
Time to pay the prize for genuinely winning them.
 
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DeletedUser501

Enchanter
Fire Phoenix and Bear artifacts should be offered (very sporadic) to get them with diamonds, this way INNO wouldn´t need to nerf and penalize high score players, would make the new ones could get them, and win money (I suppose is a very important thing for them) at the same time, cause everyone surely would want them and even spend some real cash for them.
 

Morning Town

Alchemist
If we are, by these changes limited is how far we can go (regularly) the secondary effect could be:

less kp's, less relics, less spells - causing significant effect for city development / operation
if the game becomes more tourney level limited, there will be less focus on scouting beyond that needed to open next chapter - less scouting equals less map trading partners per FS member, so less mobility of trade goods
 

DeletedUser8409

Guest
Don't worry you most likely do not get past 30-40 of them and to make that possible you can do them all manually instead.
I would say njoy ;)
We will see.

Personally I had more fun when the Tournament was a challenge and eg getting to 10k for the very first time and feeling like I'd accomplished something than grinding out 16k every week feeling like it was a chore that I didn't enjoy.

Challenging is OK, I can live with a challenge so long as the challenge can be won. If it's expensive in resources but doable to push hard then that's fair. If it becomes a case that you can't win battles though because they're simply unwinnable (as happens on World Map) then that's not reasonable. I won't be happy if that's the case.
 

Pauly7

Magus
less kp's, less relics, less spells - causing significant effect for city development / operation
This is something that concerns me. I have a massive EE spell habit right now. I get all the EE spells from going deep into tournament provinces and they fuel my culture bonus which I set high to pay me enough coins and supplies to play the Spire with my current strategy... So everything affects everything.

I'm not one with a relic issue currently, but I suspect that I am in the minority. A lot of people need to constantly boost the right tournaments in order to be able to keep crafting CC spells.
 

Hekata

Artisan
If we are getting the spire formula it would hit the hardest on the most developed players though. Looking at the difficulty chart, those who were doing 1k points a week would continue to do just as much. It's those who were trying to get the most out of the game are penalized.
I'm not sure where I fit in this, I usually get between 4k and 6k. But I couldn't care less about my scores, and it's not even so much about kps, it's about everything else I get from the tournaments regularly: what @Pauly7 pointed out in his post above is something that's been bugging me since the news came out. Where do I get the spells now? If I can't go past province 20 ,as most predict, I'll have less than 20 EE per week and less than 25 PoP. I use high amounts of both to keep my city ruining. Once you're in higher chapters those things really shouldn't be something you have to worry about. You have seeds and orcs and sentient goods to deal with.
Less spells also makes a wonder like the Dragon Abbey far less useful. And that just as the game is starting to ask us for way more mana than before. Plus old sets that produce mana have been cut short (can't be upgraded past chapter 15) and all the new mana building produce much less mana, It's been almost a year since the last time we had mana huts in events.

I'd really like to know whether Inno has completely thought this through and considered all the changes to the balance of the game in general and not just the tourney. I have the feeling they just wanted players to get less kps from the tournaments but it the process of changing that may have offset a lot of other things. If this was all intentional, then it seems they to want this game to really be extra slow and uninspiring.
 

Errandil

Conjurer
I'd really like to know whether Inno has completely thought this through and considered all the changes to the balance of the game in general and not just the tourney.
You remember that we are talking about the same people who decided that adding endless quests wouldn't result in players getting tons of stuff from the events and then they were surprised when things went not as they expected, right? And the same people who've added the rain of time boosters in the spire and are now trying to do something with consequences by nerfing tournaments? I'm betting that no, they didn't thought about all the in-game economy that was building literally for years around the tournaments, they just decided that "hey, players are getting too much, let's fix this somehow". So unless they suddenly decide to listen to the community this time we will be left to deal with all the consequences they hadn't even thought of.
 

Hekata

Artisan
"hey, players are getting too much, let's fix this somehow"
But why are they always avoiding the easiest solution? If they don't want players to have too much of something they can just put a limit to it. If they think we were getting too many Kps, they can just changed the rewards, let's say for rounds 2 and 5 after province 35 you get broken shards instead of kps. The same could have been applied to endless quests, they simply shouldn't have given the possibility to have a second grand prize.
 

Pauly7

Magus
But why are they always avoiding the easiest solution? If they don't want players to have too much of something they can just put a limit to it. If they think we were getting too many Kps, they can just changed the rewards, let's say for rounds 2 and 5 after province 35 you get broken shards instead of kps. The same could have been applied to endless quests, they simply shouldn't have given the possibility to have a second grand prize.
Absolutely. Lots of simpler, less damaging solutions exist, it seems to me.
 

Julian

Sorcerer
We are being a load of wingers, aren't we? Until it goes live, can you really tell what effect this is going to be on you? Admittedly, you all seem to be big tournament players, and you may well be hit as a result. However, there are plenty of more modest tournament players out there who are set to gain. I for one have grown bored with the tournaments over the past few months. They are so repetitive and take so long even on auto. The merging of four battles into one will be excellent. I'm sure I'll be doing more tournaments as a result.
 

DeletedUser7526

Guest
We are being a load of wingers, aren't we? Until it goes live, can you really tell what effect this is going to be on you? Admittedly, you all seem to be big tournament players, and you may well be hit as a result. However, there are plenty of more modest tournament players out there who are set to gain. I for one have grown bored with the tournaments over the past few months. They are so repetitive and take so long even on auto. The merging of four battles into one will be excellent. I'm sure I'll be doing more tournaments as a result.
People are not complaining about moderate players benefiting. Nor about the single click. We all unanimously welcome it. And the challenges too if it makes sense. But sometimes they don’t make sense. How can players be punished for premium expansions.
 
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