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Discussion News from Beta (may contain spoilers!)

Deleted User - 1759805

Guest
I know not all the daily prizes are listed but can somebody give a short assessment about which prizes are comparatively good? Culture wise nothing even seems to come close to the things you can craft in the MA.
Sure:

Day 1 – Wishing Well3×3 Culture + More - if you want diamonds, otherwise meh
Day 2 – Winter Conjuration2×3 Population + Culture - meh, low pop density
Day 3 – Snowball Fight2×3 Culture - meh, same culture density as MA's Lava Codex
Day 4 – Elvenade Logistics Center3×1 Culture + Supplies/T3 Goods/Mana/Seeds - MA's Festival Merchant is better for seeds; meh unless you're desperate for seeds
Day 5 – Frozen Unicorn2×1 Culture - it's a no-pop unicorn, enough said
Day 6 – 10x Magical ManufacturingEnchantments - meh if you play tournaments at all
Day 7 – Igloo Festival3×4 Population + Culture - very high pop density (slightly better than Venar's Rocks III); not that big, but otherwise is an excellent option if you want pop
Day 8 – Snowy Charming Tree4×3 Culture - meh, lower culture density than MA's Lava Codex
Day 9 – 4x 8hr Speed BoostSpeed Boosts - meh, that's as much as you could get as a consolation prize from 85 chest last time
Day 10 – Candy Cane Factory3×3 Culture + Population + Supplies/T3 Goods/Mana - an OK option if you want extra mana; not the best pure play producer, but it also provides some pop
Day 11 – Lazy Snowman3×2 Culture - meh, practically the same culture density as MA's Lava Codex
Day 12 – Winter Pond Habitat3×3 Culture + Population - not as good as Igloo; lower pop density (still pretty high though) and smaller
Day 13 – Candy Cane Unicorn2×1 Culture - it's a no-pop unicorn, enough said
Day 14 – 1x Portal Profit 15%Portal Profit - meh; low PP amount, probably better off playing Spire for that
Day 15 – Lemonade Brewery3×4 Culture + Population - meh, pretty low pop density
Day 16 – 4x 8hr Speed BoostSpeed Boosts - meh, that's as much as you could get as a consolation prize from 85 chest last time
Day 17 – Barrel Crane3×3 Culture + Population + Supplies/T3 Goods/Mana - a carbon copy of Candy Cane Factory, except mana production is over 36 hours
Day 18 – Frozen Lake3×3 Culture - meh, practically the same culture density as MA's Lava Codex
Day 19 – 10x Magical ManufacturingEnchantments - meh if you play tournaments at all
Day 20 – Frozen Father Tree3×3 Culture - meh, practically the same culture density as MA's Lava Codex (pretty much the same item as Frozen Lake)


That's from chapter 15 perspective; things may look somewhat different in other chapters, but they usually don't.
 

DeletedUser8409

Guest
Can't believe you call Wells meh (take a look at my city lol I'm a bit of a Well fan). They don't just give diamonds they also give KPs too and if you don't get either of those a reasonable amount of T3 too. Being on Day 1 though its impossible to get any reasonable amount here.

Agreed though that the rest of the list is pretty meh apart from the excellent Igloo Festival. Hopefully something decent comes around in days 21+ - ideally for me especially a repeat of Wells.
 

FieryArien

Necromancer
This is Magical Manufacturing spell. You can’t get more than 6 of them from a tournament no matter how much you try. And half of them are in the 5th round and half of them are in the 6th round. That hardly qualifies as “meh if you play tournaments at all” ... This price actually caught my attention, because in the Constructs chapter I use these spells for three different kinds of sentient goods production already.

My priority is Igloo (great pop), but it’s one of the early days, so I’m looking for another price later on. Hopefully there won’t be anything really great, because I’m not planning to take this event too seriously. The strategies and choices in the Elvenar events was what I liked; this one is just a glorified slot machine ... :-/
 

DeletedUser8409

Guest
I have 650x MM spells in my inventory. They're pretty meh IMHO but to each their own. At least by the time we reach Igloo Festival with that being the one decent prize so far we'll know what the remaining prizes are so we will know what to go for and what not to - but yeah I don't expect to try hard this event, not like the last one.
 

DeletedUser1874

Guest
This is Magical Manufacturing spell. You can’t get more than 6 of them from a tournament no matter how much you try.
11 if your FS makes it to Chest #9, for precision's sake - not to say they're useless if one's running low and is approaching Chapter XV, different strokes for different folks. Also I'm pretty sure that the Igloo can still show up in the VV reward chest because I have 2 from Constructs sitting in my inventory, I can think of no other way than the VV reward chest as to their presence there. The Father Tree of Candy Canes and Winter Star are both better pop-per-tile, assuming they'll make a reappearance (even if they do I think I'd rather just upgrade those I have with RRs than take a chance at the ridiculous casino and try my luck with the time-boosts, so if I fail to get them I'll just have to use some RRs and won't feel as if I missed on something unique - or anyhow rarer than time boosts).
 

FieryArien

Necromancer
11 if your FS makes it to Chest #9, for precision's sake
Right. I totally forgot about that. Partially because my Constructs city is (happy) in 4-chests fellowship. :)
Also I'm pretty sure that the Igloo can still show up in the VV reward chest
Also true. It’s rare, though. I only managed to win it once (across two and half cities). Even diamonds dropped more often.
The Father Tree of Candy Canes and Winter Star are both better pop-per-tile, assuming they'll make a reappearance
Aaaaawww, Winter Star. Mine are all gone, I’d welcome a new one(s)!
 

Piglets For All

Soothsayer
As a Beta player this event is a total waste of time and I won't do anything other than what I usually do in my cities here on Live.

I've been fair to my FS and told them to read the Beta forum rather than just taking my word for it... consensus of opinion is "no thanks".

I've just hit the 20 ribbon bonus quests, but the 6 quests leading up to it were just too boring - for an event which was billed as being fun to play with no back to back quests the same because they've been listening to us is something that could be termed artistic licence - changing the wording of the quest so that the words are different but the same end production is required is still a back to back quest when its received back to back - so, my 6 quests were supplies, supplies, supplies, 6 x NH, supplies, supplies and straight into the 20 ribbons...

Don't set your heart on a particular daily prize as your chance of actually getting one is very slim!
 

Pauly7

Magus
This is Magical Manufacturing spell. You can’t get more than 6 of them from a tournament no matter how much you try. And half of them are in the 5th round and half of them are in the 6th round. That hardly qualifies as “meh if you play tournaments at all” ... This price actually caught my attention, because in the Constructs chapter I use these spells for three different kinds of sentient goods production already.
There was a time when I was always short of these, then as I started fighting more in tournaments they became less important. I still drop a few of them on weekends, but a lot recently seemed to appear in event chest rewards and maybe some other sources(?) Now I have over 200 in stock so it wouldn't be something that catches my attention any more... Great prize for some though.
 

Deleted User - 1759805

Guest
Can't believe you call Wells meh (take a look at my city lol I'm a bit of a Well fan). They don't just give diamonds they also give KPs too and if you don't get either of those a reasonable amount of T3 too.
Let's be real here - if WWs would produce what they produce, but without any diamonds, would you still go after it in the events and place it in your city? ;) I know I wouldn't. But as I mentioned, it's obviously not meh if you're after diamonds.

This is Magical Manufacturing spell. You can’t get more than 6 of them from a tournament no matter how much you try. And half of them are in the 5th round and half of them are in the 6th round. That hardly qualifies as “meh if you play tournaments at all” ...
Obviously a bit of a hyperbole as if you don't reach 5* stage and you're not in a high scoring FS, you won't get any MMs from tournaments at all. Having said that, a bar for exceeding "meh" is set as something that cannot be easily acquired outside of the events as to warrant limited attempts at daily prizes. E.g. high density pop or mana cannot be easily found outside of daily event prizes. MM is a commodity that can be gained in tournaments, NH chests and straight up crafted in the MA. As any commodity you can run short, so may welcome an extra source, but to me this is a waste of daily prize attempts. I mean, if you want MMs you know you want it, you don't need to do more complicated analysis like pop density.

Not to say that MMs are useless - I have spent probably about 300 MMs to get through chapter 15, and wouldn't be able to complete my goals there without that. So if I knew that extra 50 MM would be a difference between hitting my targets or not, I would actually be one of the people who would hit that daily. But it's very situational, and generally speaking MMs are just not unique enough.

Also I'm pretty sure that the Igloo can still show up in the VV reward chest
Interesting, can't say I remember seeing that in the Mystical Object ever. Perhaps I wasn't paying attention, as I always dreaded getting buildings from the MO as generally that would be the worst outcome. Luckily, I think I only got buildings a couple of times so far. Good to know that there is at least one decent building option in the MO ;)
 

Deleted User - 1759805

Guest
Yes. Because KP is the true end-game.
Sure, if that's your best marginal value KP producer, and you have space to waste. Most people are not in the end-game, and even then 3KP once in a blue moon in 3x3 format is pretty wasteful if you ask me. I'd rather have AWKP in the end-game anyways (can store with no cap). I still have tons of unplaced Monuments of Ancient Knowledge (and Carting Libraries), both will be better than WW for KPs.

Even if I have no better KP producers, I may still go for Vallorian Valor or GotOS, and get more tournament KPs with extra troops. YMMV.
 

Killiak

Artisan
Sure, if that's your best marginal value KP producer, and you have space to waste. Most people are not in the end-game, and even then 3KP once in a blue moon in 3x3 format is pretty wasteful if you ask me. I'd rather have AWKP in the end-game anyways (can store with no cap). I still have tons of unplaced Monuments of Ancient Knowledge (and Carting Libraries), both will be better than WW for KPs.

Even if I have no better KP producers, I may still go for Vallorian Valor or GotOS, and get more tournament KPs with extra troops. YMMV.


Wether or not you have space to place a lot of them, or only a few.
or if you have other buildings that give guaranteed KP every 24/48 hours,
or if you have a fellowship with KP threads that go fast enough.
or if the event has better kp producers / square

All of your reasoning depends on the personal situation of a player / the specifics of the event.
Regardless of all of the above, Wishing Wells would still be a very good choice even if diamonds were not part of their reward table.

KP is the true endgame, hands down, and all sources of it should be cherished.
 

DeletedUser8632

Guest
Sure:

Day 1 – Wishing Well3×3 Culture + More - if you want diamonds, otherwise meh
Day 2 – Winter Conjuration2×3 Population + Culture - meh, low pop density
Day 3 – Snowball Fight2×3 Culture - meh, same culture density as MA's Lava Codex
Day 4 – Elvenade Logistics Center3×1 Culture + Supplies/T3 Goods/Mana/Seeds - MA's Festival Merchant is better for seeds; meh unless you're desperate for seeds
Day 5 – Frozen Unicorn2×1 Culture - it's a no-pop unicorn, enough said
Day 6 – 10x Magical ManufacturingEnchantments - meh if you play tournaments at all
Day 7 – Igloo Festival3×4 Population + Culture - very high pop density (slightly better than Venar's Rocks III); not that big, but otherwise is an excellent option if you want pop
Day 8 – Snowy Charming Tree4×3 Culture - meh, lower culture density than MA's Lava Codex
Day 9 – 4x 8hr Speed BoostSpeed Boosts - meh, that's as much as you could get as a consolation prize from 85 chest last time
Day 10 – Candy Cane Factory3×3 Culture + Population + Supplies/T3 Goods/Mana - an OK option if you want extra mana; not the best pure play producer, but it also provides some pop
Day 11 – Lazy Snowman3×2 Culture - meh, practically the same culture density as MA's Lava Codex
Day 12 – Winter Pond Habitat3×3 Culture + Population - not as good as Igloo; lower pop density (still pretty high though) and smaller
Day 13 – Candy Cane Unicorn2×1 Culture - it's a no-pop unicorn, enough said
Day 14 – 1x Portal Profit 15%Portal Profit - meh; low PP amount, probably better off playing Spire for that
Day 15 – Lemonade Brewery3×4 Culture + Population - meh, pretty low pop density
Day 16 – 4x 8hr Speed BoostSpeed Boosts - meh, that's as much as you could get as a consolation prize from 85 chest last time
Day 17 – Barrel Crane3×3 Culture + Population + Supplies/T3 Goods/Mana - a carbon copy of Candy Cane Factory, except mana production is over 36 hours
Day 18 – Frozen Lake3×3 Culture - meh, practically the same culture density as MA's Lava Codex
Day 19 – 10x Magical ManufacturingEnchantments - meh if you play tournaments at all
Day 20 – Frozen Father Tree3×3 Culture - meh, practically the same culture density as MA's Lava Codex (pretty much the same item as Frozen Lake)


That's from chapter 15 perspective; things may look somewhat different in other chapters, but they usually don't.

Thank you @MinMax Gamer for the extensive assessment, very much appreciated. So glad we have bookmarks now :)
 

DeletedUser8409

Guest
Let's be real here - if WWs would produce what they produce, but without any diamonds, would you still go after it in the events and place it in your city? ;) I know I wouldn't. But as I mentioned, it's obviously not meh if you're after diamonds.
Bit harsh to say without diamonds given that is the primary target for Wells but yes the secondary prizes are still pretty decent.

Remembering that there are 2 collections per day a Wishing Well can win you upto 6kp per day (carts would require 12 tiles for that), or many thousands of T3 per day without any population imprint, or lots of supplies or coins if you're interested in those again without any population imprint. I have never ran the numbers but I'm pretty sure that if you include tiles for the manufactory and the residences that allow it to be placed a T3 manufactory is less efficient than a Well when the Well generates goods. Goods are a 'consolation prize' as diamonds and kp are my real targets but the consolation prize is better than a manufactory.
 

Deleted User - 1759805

Guest
Remembering that there are 2 collections per day a Wishing Well can win you upto 6kp per day (carts would require 12 tiles for that)
You didn't just compare "up to" 6 KP WW with guaranteed 6KP for 6 CLs, did you? ;) Unless something changed, 3KP used to be 10% chance in WW, so your expected output from a single WW is 0.6 KP/day. So 18 tiles of WW are roughly as efficient as 2 tiles of CL if you care about KPs.

And expiring building that produces small amounts of T3 in the end game? Even more so, with 50% chance of coins or supplies? I'll pass ;)

Again, to reiterate - definitely worth it if you want diamonds, may be worth it for KPs, but really other alternatives are much better than that as it is pretty inefficient. Everything else in the end game? Definitely not for me.
 

Errandil

Conjurer
You didn't just compare "up to" 6 KP WW with guaranteed 6KP for 6 CLs, did you? ;) Unless something changed, 3KP used to be 10% chance in WW, so your expected output from a single WW is 0.6 KP/day. So 18 tiles of WW are roughly as efficient as 2 tiles of CL if you care about KPs.

And expiring building that produces small amounts of T3 in the end game? Even more so, with 50% chance of coins or supplies? I'll pass ;)

Again, to reiterate - definitely worth it if you want diamonds, may be worth it for KPs, but really other alternatives are much better than that as it is pretty inefficient. Everything else in the end game? Definitely not for me.
You are speaking like you have an unlimited supply of carting libraries and AW monuments. If so then yes, WWs are definitely worse, otherwise it's better to fill empty squares with something that occasionally produces KP than with something that doesn't produce it at all.
 

Deleted User - 1759805

Guest
You are speaking like you have an unlimited supply of carting libraries and AW monuments. If so then yes, WWs are definitely worse, otherwise it's better to fill empty squares with something that occasionally produces KP than with something that doesn't produce it at all.
Absolutely, that's why I said go for it if that's your best marginal KP producer and you have empty space and no more appealing options in the dailies. But it's pretty low on the efficiency list for KPs.

Another way to look at that is a lifetime KP value of daily prizes. WW would give you 60 KPs expected, and you tie 9 tiles for 100 days. And you better be on point with collections. So realistically 50+ KPs. Plus there is variability in output (works both up and down, so it's a wash over long term).

CL would produce somewhat less than 100 KP (probably less slippage as only 100 collections vs 200), tying just 2 tiles for 100 days.

Monument would produce somewhat less than 150 AWKP, tying 4 tiles for 100 days.

CL or Monuments might not be available as dailies, but straight up AWKPs usually are. Last time it was 30 AWKP a pop, so you get only 30 AWKP per daily, but it's available instantly and is storable, and you don't tie any space for any period of time, and not subject to slippage on draining expiring buildings. Depending on how you value space, straight AWKP might be a better deal for KPs than WW (that's ignoring diamonds).

Another alternative to WWs for KPs is just higher efficiency replacements (e.g. pop etc). This is a less direct route of higher efficiency buildings -> can clear some extra space -> can place more troop producers -> can have higher sustained tournament performance -> higher KP output indefinitely (well, almost). This alternative is harder to estimate as there are too many variables involved. But given how easy it is to gain a few extra KPs from tournaments, and how not very efficient KP-wise WWs are, this might be quite viable alternative. Obviously, there can be a saturation point where you have all highest efficiency producers of the max chapter, but I am certainly nowhere near that point ;)
 

m4rt1n

Adept
11 if your FS makes it to Chest #9, for precision's sake - not to say they're useless if one's running low and is approaching Chapter XV, different strokes for different folks. Also I'm pretty sure that the Igloo can still show up in the VV reward chest because I have 2 from Constructs sitting in my inventory, I can think of no other way than the VV reward chest as to their presence there. The Father Tree of Candy Canes and Winter Star are both better pop-per-tile, assuming they'll make a reappearance (even if they do I think I'd rather just upgrade those I have with RRs than take a chance at the ridiculous casino and try my luck with the time-boosts, so if I fail to get them I'll just have to use some RRs and won't feel as if I missed on something unique - or anyhow rarer than time boosts).

I won the Igloo festival in a vv chest last week and placed it, must be one of the best culture/pop in the game for it's size.

Now my take on wishing wells, for me they are great to save up then place about 30 of them at end game situations while waiting on the next chapter.

Even with expansions now at 5K without offers, another 1 is possible for free while waiting on the game.
 

DeletedUser8632

Guest
@Muf-Muf

... here is some personal feedback: The Shuffle prize is the one thing that will utterly kill this event for me. Previous events had their ups and downs but one thing was always a highlight: Taking your currency and opening chests/shells/whatnots for prizes was ultimately fun and enjoyable. That joy is now gone for me.

This... this... abomination of a "bonus" prize is beyond frustrating and aggravating. And its not like there are not 15 pages in the beta forum exactly explaining how this is a bad idea.

And for crying out loud, if you want to stop people from farming Wishing Wells in events, just effing stop putting them up as prizes!
 
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