Discussion News from Beta (may contain spoilers!)

[Timneh]

Ahh so it was nothing to do with addressing players concerns then, actually that sounds about right. They came up with a way to do NH on the app and then the divs thought they would try and get it to work here as well. Thanks for that info Pauly7

 

[Pauly7]

Ahh so it was nothing to do with addressing players concerns then, actually that sounds about right. They came up with a way to do NH on the app and then the divs thought they would try and get it to work here as well. Thanks for that info Pauly7

Well as far as I can see the problem to be addressed was - it isn't possible to give NH on the mobile app - and they came up with a way to do it without having to load up each city. Maybe I'm a cynic, but it seems like a handy coincidence to say that it addressed concerns over length of time to give the NH.

That being said, moving this system onto the PC version can be seen as addressing the speed problem, once they have seen how fast it runs on the mobile, though as someone pointed out the process will also save the drain on their servers.

To bring it back to the original debate here... what's the point of addressing the problem of speed of neighbourly help if you are going to take away the benefit (and for owners of that AW it's 99% of the benefit of world map NH) of giving it in the first place.

I know that we're just repeating the same points over and over so it probably isn't helping any further by this point. Hopefully the developers are actually reading this thread... that's my hope at this point, but I'm not sure.

 

[Timneh]

They have had all the feedback from here, beta and all the other world servers but they just say this is what we are going to do and if you don't like it tough, we are doing it anyway because we don't give a hoot about what you think.

 

[Wowwie]

Exactly
They are going to do what they do and most times when things are tested in beta they come to live even worse.
Changes are hardly made with output from beta players(probably why the wide spread topic is posted on live server to inform the players what is actually going to happen on live world) only bug reports which only get fixed with updates so if live is on 137 and beta is on 141 the live servers will get the bugs until its upgraded to the 141 version
hence why the category This is a known bug or issue
Beta players play across all live servers as well as beta , so maybe its time live world discuss and help with their input on issues as well.

 

[Jackluyt]

Here is a sneak-peek at the 'Eldrasil’s Ascending' Autumn Event that just started in Beta!
It will be with us in the live worlds in a few weeks, I guess.
Very professional so far - and lovely graphics!!

Please feel free to share with friends and fellowship - and if you want to see more of these Videos, don't forget to Subscribe on YouTube!
=D

 

[Pauly7]

So like the last one, but nuts instead of sugarbeet... in a nutshell

It's good to see that "pay a good amount of..." quests don't seem to appear in the list.

I know I'm not normal, but with the grand prizes it will come down to whether I like the look of them and I can't see me building any of those three in my city.... but that's just me.

Oh, also, just with regard to your maths... If you open a small "nutshell" costing 50 nuts which gives you a 7% chance of finding the building, this doesn't give you better odds than opening the one that costs 140 nuts and which gives you a 25% chance.

 

[DeletedUser595]

My Crystal Lighthouse now gives me nothing when I visit. If I sell, I lose 5655 points! Inno should let us sell this for no loss of points - they are the ones who have changed the way the CLs work (NOT, now). I put them on all my cities because I really liked the reward of goods. They gradually added up. I am not happy!

 

[Deleted User - 384643]

If I'd sell my Crystal Lighthouse once the Elvenar devs nerf it and make it mostly useless, it's not so much the point loss that bothers me but the enormous amount of KP I (and others) put into it that would be wasted.

When they implement this change they should also implement the possibility to sell the Crystal Lighthouse and receive ALL the KP put into it. At least then we could put that KP into other Ancient Wonders which usefulness hasn't been ruined (yet). This at least would be a reasonably fair compromise.

 

[Timneh]

This at least would be a reasonably fair compromise.

When have you ever seen Inno care about what is fair or unfair ?

 

[Pauly7]

Now that we are back on to this, I have thought of the following to say about the below (now infamous) quote from Marindor:

Also, it's important to try to look at this objectively. These changes have the biggest impact on our most active players because the players who did take the time to do NH for ages, had of course the most benefit from the amounts of goods this rewarded them with. Objectively though, most of our players (even amongst active players) do not perform a lot of NH and will in the new situation, have more goods with less efforts needed.

We want all of our players to perform Neighborly Help and many do not do it because they do not see the advantage of it. Having bigger and more accessible rewards will actually trigger more players to give Neighborly Help overall. So on a global scale, more help will be performed with this change despite the fact that our most active users will probably slow down on it. For the vast majority of players, this new system will offer more rewards (as most players mostly help their 24 fellowship members or less) and with less efforts. Bigger rewards requiring less efforts will make it attractive to more people to perform at least the amount of Neighborly Help they need to get these rewards.

And I am actually calling on Inno to provide a piece of statistical information which I am certain is easy for them to come up with and I am also certain that they will not offer. My request is as follows:

I would like to know what the average daily number of neighbours helped over the past month. However, the only people counted should be owners of the Bell Spire and Crystal Lighthouse aaaaand, any player who has not been active at all in the last 7 days should not be counted.

I ask this, as most reading it will gather, because despite the sweeping statements that "most of our players (even amongst active players) do not perform a lot of NH" and "For the vast majority of players, this new system will offer more rewards" my prediction is that if an honest result was given that a minimum of 90% of these people will show to average greater than the 30 cities helped per day, which would be the threshold that would result in this change being detrimental to them.

 

[Timneh]

That would indeed make very interesting reading Pauly7. The part of Marindors statement that just caught my attention is this (partly helped by what you said Pauly7)
We want all of our players to perform Neighborly Help and many do not do it because they do not see the advantage of it. Having bigger and more accessible rewards will actually trigger more players to give Neighborly Help overall.
How is this change going to trigger more players to do NH when god knows how many thousands of them do not even have the bellspire/lighthouse ? The divs team need to take some time and take a look around the game world at the cities and note how many actually do not have the bellspire/lighthouse. The building in the cliffs make it easy to see although they should be able to see from the files or something. They must have come up with the idea for this change during playtime instead of in the classroom where there was an adult to supervise them.

 

[Pauly7]

What really riles me about this whole situation is not the decision, but the explanation. If they had just said "Look, we think we got this AW wrong. We didn't mean to be giving out so many goods and we need to cut it back" then we still could have been disappointed, we could still debate the liklihood and possibility of some kind of "compensation" for loss of KP, etc, etc, but ultimately we would need to just get on with it and accept it.

What I really don't like is a statement which, to my mind, is quite insulting to assume we would all buy into the reasoning that has been offered.

 

[Timneh]

Totally agree with you Pauly7, the other thing is that on the original release notes on beta they said the reason for the change was simply to make it easier to balance and track the AW(their words), then they come out with this other excuse which just reinforces the suspicion that the whole thing is BS. It wouldn't be so bad if their trumped up reason actually made sense but it doesn't. How can a AW that so many people don't have promote more NH ? It is only going to affect the players that have it and i am sure that most players that do have it will do more than 30 cities worth of NH bearing in mind that a full FS will be 24 cities to visit. A player that does not like to do NH is unlikely to even build the bellspire/lighthouse because it is taking up valuable space and they are not taking advantage of the benefits that it gives. Innogames if you are so sure that you are right and we are wrong then show us some statistics to back up your claims. Step up to the mark and prove your claims or just admit that you got this change FUBAR.

 

[Jackluyt]

1. Here is the Guide with all the Quests and other information for the Eldrasil's Autumn Event, starting on Thursday!
   
   https://www.facebook.com/notes/elve...-worlds-on-thursday-28th-ru/1925028021085910/
   
   
   
   
   
   You are most welcome to share it with friends, fellowship and map neighbors!!
   
   J
   

 

[DeletedUser3182]

Is the link broken, I click on the URL and just get another page with the picture on it. Would like to have the guide.

 

[Jackluyt]

Is the link broken

Fixed now!
I need to do another hour of work on the guide - but it is 99% ready!

 

[Jackluyt]

Here is a video of the Eldrasil's Ascending Autumn Event that you may like to share with your friends and fellowship!!
If you would like to see more similar videos, subscribe to our YouTube Channel!

 

[Killiak]

Killing people's NH rewards, taking out an effect from an AW without replacing it with anything, and not even implementing the NH change to make it easier to give?

There's very little "Beta" to discuss on this matter; you messed up the order of things. Now fix it.

 

[DeletedUser3032]

Live = Beta. Beta = dont know what it equals.... suggestions on a post card..

 

[DeletedUser1412]

I, like many others, am VERY disappointed by this change. Probably the biggest reason for this is that people may have sunk A LOT of KP into their Crystal Lighthouse / Bell Spire, purely because of the output of goods that is on offer. If that has been taken away then it seems pretty deceptive to me and at least everyone should be offered all that KP back (though I guess that wouldn't even be possible to calculate.)

This may be controversial and cynical, but I'll take a stab at the real reason for this:

People are taking way more goods from these AWs than Inno ever anticipated or wanted and they realised that they haven't been calculated to their advantage. They may say that they want people to take part in quests and to give neighbourly help, but there is one thing that is a hundred times more important that factors into every part of the game - they want people to spend more diamonds. The hope here is if they take away people's goods production then it will encourage people to complete quests, fellowship adventures, etc, etc, by spending more diamonds.

That's how I see it anyway.

You hit the nail on the head in your statement. But this is faulty thinking on Innos part I am not going to spend one more cent on this game